Confirmed with Link: Leafs sign D Mark Giordano to extension (2 years, $800k AAV)

[NMacrules]

I was being facetious.…..sadly it’s not too far off.

Addition by subtraction. Get rid of Holl, Kerfoot and Engvall and you vastly improve the team, while freeing up 5.5 mil in cap space. We have enough guys in the system to replace them.

He and Spezza are the only Leafs in the last 7 years that I’ve seen actually grind and care when it matters.

As an aside, wow, Dubas offered more and Gio gave back? I do not ever recall a player doing that…. But isn’t that a bit of an indictment on Dubas as a fail? Like I get that Gio is a good team guy but how do you offer more than the player wants?


I may need to do this as well, depending on what changes are made and if Nylander is paying elsewhere

McNall and Gretzky did that when he was traded to LA.

 

[Nineteen67]

Addition by subtraction. Get rid of Holl, Kerfoot and Engvall and you vastly improve the team, while freeing up 5.5 mil in cap space. We have enough guys in the system to replace them.


McNall and Gretzky did that when he was traded to LA.

Unless they can free up more cap dollars that‘s the only option they have.

 

[Mitch nylander]

Addition by subtraction. Get rid of Holl, Kerfoot and Engvall and you vastly improve the team, while freeing up 5.5 mil in cap space. We have enough guys in the system to replace them.


McNall and Gretzky did that when he was traded to LA.

How is getting rid of a 51 point player who happens to be one of our best penalty killers addition by subtraction. We'd definitely need to use that 5.5 for a replacement with similar production.

On the other hand I wouldn't think twice about blasting Holl to the moon.

 

[cannucky]

Yeah Baby a killer price for the 38 year old Dman who will be 40 when the deal ends , YESSSS thats the piece thats going to get us over the top , I'm booking my room for the parade baby .

 

[Shooter2x]

Yeah Baby a killer price for the 38 year old Dman who will be 40 when the deal ends , YESSSS thats the piece thats going to get us over the top , I'm booking my room for the parade baby .

Gio is pretty much the top of the depth chart when it comes to building your third pairing. What's your beef?

I like how he picked out himself too to be our depth. Had to make the contract himself and resend. He knows Dubas sure as hell doesn't know how to surround the core so players need to take matters into their own hands now to save the Leafs.

 

[HogTown06]

Giordano is a great 3rd pairing guy right now. The leafs d core has other issues, like Muzzin's contract and trade Holl.

Reilly-Brodie
open-open
Giordano-Liljegren

Sandin on the 2nd pairing!

I still throw Sandin-Liljegren back together and elevate their role. See if they can handle 2nd pair matchups like they did on the 3rd pair last year. Need to start getting these kids into bigger spots.

I would be happy with this option too.

 

[The Iceman]

This has nothing absolutely nothing to do with any negotiating prowess of Dubas.
It’s all about The player wanting to end his career in his home town…….full stop

I disagree.
If Dubas was a bad negotiator this would be a 2 year $4 million and nobody would have batted an eye.

 

[The Iceman]

Yeah Baby a killer price for the 38 year old Dman who will be 40 when the deal ends , YESSSS thats the piece thats going to get us over the top , I'm booking my room for the parade baby .

Would you prefer that Dubas announces all his signings and trades all at once?
Or are improvements allowed to be announced as they happen?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I disagree.
If Dubas was a bad negotiator this would be a 2 year $4 million and nobody would have batted an eye.

Dubas offered him MORE than 800k. The player decided on the discount. Not Dubas.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

How is getting rid of a 51 point player who happens to be one of our best penalty killers addition by subtraction. We'd definitely need to use that 5.5 for a replacement with similar production.

On the other hand I wouldn't think twice about blasting Holl to the moon.

Agreed, but not about Holl. Moving either would be more about capitalizing on an asset and needing something different more than something better.

Leafs fans think they know what they want/need, but the answer could be right in front of their faces and they wouldn't even realize. That is a large reason why this fanbase can be a joke a lot of the time. I especially like when they think a guy like Chiarot or Lyubushkin would be better for this team than Holl. The only thing Lyubushkin may have on Holl is that he should be a fair bit cheaper.

 

[Community]

As an aside, wow, Dubas offered more and Gio gave back? I do not ever recall a player doing that…. But isn’t that a bit of an indictment on Dubas as a fail? Like I get that Gio is a good team guy but how do you offer more than the player wants?

We don't know the full story, but why fault Dubas when it could've went something like "Gio, we know you might have offers for more if you want to play somewhere else, but we can afford to give you 1.5m/yr if you want to stay and xyz is why I think this is a great place for you" and then Gio saying "sounds great, Id love to stay and I'll take 800k."

If Dubas had gone in and said we can only offer you 800k, Gio mightve taken that as a slap in the face since we could offer more and he's worth SIGNIFICANTLY more and we can realistically afford more than 800k to keep him.

Gio and Spezza are the first two high profile players to take near league minimum when they could get significantly more in order to play for the Leafs since the cap was put in place... that's HUGE and it shows the players buy into Dubas/Shannahan ans the current Leafs group. Like him or hate him, it's silly to criticize Dubas over Gio's contract negotiations.

 

[Community]

Dubas offered him MORE than 800k. The player decided on the discount. Not Dubas.

I bet a big reason Gio took less is because Dubas showed him respect and was honest about how much we can afford (which was already less than he is worth)...

Ever have a contract negotiation for work? When the employer is honest about what the max they can afford, you feel better about the outcome than somebody who says "the highest we can offer is x" but then somehow the offer goes up when you get a different offer from another company.... (It helps that in Gio's situation, he can afford to take less than the best $ offer).

 

[Nylanderthal]

Are you kidding me? A chimpanzee could have negotiated this contract. This was all Gio and not Dubas. Wow, people will stretch the limits to praise this guy

So then if he’s not responsible for good deals he’s to be abstained from criticism on the supposed bad ones?

 

[Eyedea]

Dubas offered him MORE than 800k. The player decided on the discount. Not Dubas.

Why offer close to vet min to a guy with 3x value in the open market? That's just good faith by the employer while Gio is doing his part to help out.

 

[Nylanderthal]

I bet a big reason Gio took less is because Dubas showed him respect and was honest about how much we can afford (which was already less than he is worth)...

Ever have a contract negotiation for work? When the employer is honest about what the max they can afford, you feel better about the outcome than somebody who says "the highest we can offer is x" but then somehow the offer goes up when you get a different offer from another company.... (It helps that in Gio's situation, he can afford to take less than the best $ offer)

I reckon that the majority of these trolls have issues negotiating a grocery list their mothers game them, let alone a work contract

 

[PROUD PAPA]

Great news to cap off an amazing long weekend.
Now fix the goaltending.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

So then if he’s not responsible for good deals he’s to be abstained from criticism on the supposed bad ones?

I think this all comes back to Leafs fans thinking that poll about being the best GM to negotiate with is a bad thing.

I have talked to a guy who represented an agency (and it was one that has a lot of Leafs clients), and a lot of the time it is not about getting top dollar and rather going to a place where they feel most valued. Sure, money plays into that, but it is also respect from management and the idea that, even if things don't go perfectly or maybe a change needs to be made, they will still be respected. See Leivo, Barabanov, Mikheyev... That is why Dubas ranks at the top of that poll; not because he is easy to negotiate for top dollar.

And in fact, the only real overpayment he gave out was Marner, and that is a direct result of him getting completely disrespected on his ELC by Lou. Now we can argue whether Marner should have felt disrespected, but it is irrelevant. He was a guy who wanted reconciliation from the position he felt disrespected him, and that meant making up that money on his next deal. If we take that money off, Marner makes about 1 mill less than he does now and suddenly it is not an overpayment (or at least not much of one).

 

[Nylanderthal]

I think this all comes back to Leafs fans thinking that poll about being the best GM to negotiate with is a bad thing.

I have talked to a guy who represented an agency (and it was one that has a lot of Leafs clients), and a lot of the time it is not about getting top dollar and rather going to a place where they feel most valued. Sure, money plays into that, but it is also respect from management and the idea that, even if things don't go perfectly or maybe a change needs to be made, they will still be respected. See Leivo, Barabanov, Mikheyev... That is why Dubas ranks at the top of that poll; not because he is easy to negotiate for top dollar.

And in fact, the only real overpayment he gave out was Marner, and that is a direct result of him getting completely disrespected on his ELC by Lou. Now we can argue whether Marner should have felt disrespected, but it is irrelevant. He was a guy who wanted reconciliation from the position he felt disrespected him, and that meant making up that money on his next deal. If we take that money off, Marner makes about 1 mill less than he does now and suddenly it is not an overpayment (or at least not much of one).

I’ve always thought the deals while expensive were fair-ish and if any of them are considered overpaid it’s Mitch and it’s only by the spare change on the deal. If he signed 6 x $10m in July that summer no one gives a shit.

 

[ITM]

Yeah Baby a killer price for the 38 year old Dman who will be 40 when the deal ends , YESSSS thats the piece thats going to get us over the top , I'm booking my room for the parade baby .

There are statements littered on these boards that out fans who are informed and fans who aren't and aren't because their support is secondary to the sub hobby of being a troll.

If you don't get that Giordano at this hit is a great thing for our club's situation, it's reasonable that more likely than not, you either don't know who he is, didn't see his contribution to our club, or did and just plain don't understand what you saw...OR...you did, don't care and come here just to stir the pot.

Embarassing.

 

[mapleleafs34]

I’ve always thought the deals while expensive were fair-ish and if any of them are considered overpaid it’s Mitch and it’s only by the spare change on the deal. If he signed 6 x $10m in July that summer no one gives a shit.

If not for a once in a lifetime pandemic, the cap continues to go up and no one even thinks twice about Mitch's contract

 

[stickty111]

I think this all comes back to Leafs fans thinking that poll about being the best GM to negotiate with is a bad thing.

I have talked to a guy who represented an agency (and it was one that has a lot of Leafs clients), and a lot of the time it is not about getting top dollar and rather going to a place where they feel most valued. Sure, money plays into that, but it is also respect from management and the idea that, even if things don't go perfectly or maybe a change needs to be made, they will still be respected. See Leivo, Barabanov, Mikheyev... That is why Dubas ranks at the top of that poll; not because he is easy to negotiate for top dollar.

And in fact, the only real overpayment he gave out was Marner, and that is a direct result of him getting completely disrespected on his ELC by Lou. Now we can argue whether Marner should have felt disrespected, but it is irrelevant. He was a guy who wanted reconciliation from the position he felt disrespected him, and that meant making up that money on his next deal. If we take that money off, Marner makes about 1 mill less than he does now and suddenly it is not an overpayment (or at least not much of one).

Great post. Plus even though Marner is overpaid right now, if he is a key part in a playoff run, his number means nothing. I thought he took some key steps in the first round to go towards that.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Dubas offered him MORE than 800k. The player decided on the discount. Not Dubas.

Excellent point! We should have offered him below league minimum. He might have countered that by offering to play for free.

 

[NMacrules]

How is getting rid of a 51 point player who happens to be one of our best penalty killers addition by subtraction. We'd definitely need to use that 5.5 for a replacement with similar production.

On the other hand I wouldn't think twice about blasting Holl to the moon.

I like Kerfoot, but in the big games he makes huge game changing mistakes. I don't know if the pressure gets to him but he has some serious brain farts. Happened last year too.

 

[Menzinger]

Not sure if that's true
Partly because none of those teams ever actually chased many 35+ year old vets from Toronto or needed any

Back then there werent' players willing to sign one year deals or many players were even available. There are league wide one year deals because there are so many players looking for deals.

Simmonds only came because nobody else was gonna give him a contract and Dubas needed to fill some toughness

Same with Spezza. He keep signing one year deals because he doesn't want to play anywhere else. Not neccessarly because he has deals on the table and he's turning them down. Worked out for both parties

Gio is 38. As good as he is, his options are limited. But a very good signing.

All these contracts or home town boys you talk about. Are literally guys who are sailing into the sun. They are all from toronto, they are retiring or going to retire

Except for Bunting. Who signed a good deal. No doubt. But it's not like Bunting was a proven player coming of a 30 goal season. He was essnetially a nobody from Arizona who didnt' want to sign him. Luck for us.

None of those GM's needed to sign anyone for 1 year deals. They didnt' maxed up their caps and that wasn't the norm back then

I'd say good value deals are always desirable for a team, regardless of the teams capspace and it's not as if hometown discounts were completely new. Past GMs sought to pay a premium for depth vets because they ultimately choose to.

 

[cannucky]

There are statements littered on these boards that out fans who are informed and fans who aren't and aren't because their support is secondary to the sub hobby of being a troll.

If you don't get that Giordano at this hit is a great thing for our club's situation, it's reasonable that more likely than not, you either don't know who he is, didn't see his contribution to our club, or did and just plain don't understand what you saw...OR...you did, don't care and come here just to stir the pot.

Embarassing.

What's truly embarrassing is people who actually believe re-signing an over the hill league minimum player with a rapidly diminishing skillset for 2 years is somehow a good plan for this team . There is a whole world of ELC eligible players out there who are as good as he is now and will only get better instead of getting older and slower , but hey you keep drinking the Dubass kool aid there pal and we'll see you typing the same dumb shyte next year after yet another first round exit . You are of course among the same group that swore the rest of us were stupid and wrong to want to stay the course of the 5 year internal rebuild instead of signing John Tavares because he was so special and was going to bring is the cup right away , How has that worked out Mr Einstein ? I suppose I will be stupid and ignorant if I don't want to re-sign him as well eh ? The idea is to get better every year not swap mediocre for mediocre then convince yourself it's an upgrade .