Leafs Salary cap discussions

[egd27]

i did. you said the leafs had 15+m left. so what's your math?

Wasn't my post.

 

[The Legend]

Gardiner and Gunnar for Jenner, Dubinsky and a pick

Solves everything.

 

[The Podium]

Isn't the real problem that this isn't a very good team, particularly defensively (5th worst goals against) and usually finishes in the bottom 10 overall.

Since simply signing your own players to more money doesn't make your team better then less cap space for improvements should be the concern.

Trying to complete the roster with the majority of the same players that continually fail doesn't seem to be addressing the problem. IMO

It's just a proposed roster to show how we can fit a team under the cap. Neither me or you can predict accurately what the team will be next year so there is no point in speculating. However with most of the roster filled the Leafs could have 7 mill of cap available for a single player upgrade + any additional cap from a player we deal. For example say we sign Stastny for 6 mill, we won't need Bolland saving us 4 mill + the extra mill in cap space for a defensive Improvement. That adds a number 1 C and likely a top pairing D (don't know whom) while being cap compliant.

 

[Faltorvo]

But like others and myself have said those numbers are based on Montreal not having any of their top players but Price signed while Toronto only requires minimum players and whatever upgrades they deem fit.

PK and Markov, that's all they will worry about, Montreal has their cap well under control. I hate to say.

Vanek is a rental.

 

[Faltorvo]

But we don't have anyone significant to lock up... Bolland and Kulemin are our big ticket UFAs and they won't command any more than 3-4 mill every one else are 4th liners, bottom 4 D and a backup goalie. We have rookies that can fill in spots on the third/fourth line for league minimum and Gardiner who likely won't sign for anymore than 2 mill therefore of the spots we have to fill with generous raises

Bolland 4 mill
Kulemin 3.5 mill
Gardiner 2 mill
McClement 1.5 mill
D'amigo 1 mill
Ashton 1 mill
Forward extra 700k
D extra 700k

14.4 mill of the 22.3 in cap space leaves us with 7.9 for a backup goalie and a D assuming a back up goalie will cost 1 mill at max that gives us 6.9 mill for an upgrade. If we have a forward upgrade somewhere then don't sign Bolland or Kulemin giving an extra ~4 mill for said upgrade.

you are making assumptions that I do not believe in for 1 second.

your banking on a 71m cap, I am not.

you believe Gards only gets a 2m bridge? good luck with that.

and you made RFAs Reims/Frans go poof , fascinating the warping folks will do to back their point.

 

[TheScruffington]

This team is just boned with cap. This is why you never tie yourself up with so many long-term high cap hit contracts to players who haven't proved that they can win anything or put up successful results.

Except JVR. He can stay.

 

[Gallagbi]

Nobody in their right mind expects Reimer back and few expect Franson. It's not difficult to dump RFAs, so I'm not sure why that would be a problem.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

But we don't have anyone significant to lock up... Bolland and Kulemin are our big ticket UFAs and they won't command any more than 3-4 mill every one else are 4th liners

Huh ?
Are team sucks.
We need better players.

Need: #1 Center, #1 D, probably #2 Center.

Isn't the real problem that this isn't a very good team, particularly defensively (5th worst goals against) and usually finishes in the bottom 10 overall.

Since simply signing your own players to more money doesn't make your team better then less cap space for improvements should be the concern.

Trying to complete the roster with the majority of the same players that continually fail doesn't seem to be addressing the problem. IMO

Exactly !

 

[Faltorvo]

Huh ?
Are team sucks.
We need better players.

Need: #1 Center, #1 D, probably #2 Center.



Exactly !

well like I tried to point out weeks ago.

folks are coming in here defending our cap position with just numbers and wholly ignoring that for these numbers to fit, this team will actually be taking a step BACK and not forward.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Nobody in their right mind expects Reimer back and few expect Franson. It's not difficult to dump RFAs, so I'm not sure why that would be a problem.

Also add in that only 1 player in free agency is worth a big contract of over 5 million in Stastny and very highly unlikely he'd be coming to Toronto.

In a trade for a big cap hit player we'd also be sending decent cap hit out whether it be Gunnarson, Gleason, Kadri, Lupul. Unless it were an outright dump like say a Lombardi or Booth contract were taken on.

Every year it's doom and gloom with all these internet capologists whether it be Liles or Finger or Connolly.

If we need the cap space for a player the team wants-needs I'm not the least bit worried about it happening.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Every year it's doom and gloom with all these internet capologists .....

I guess you'll admit they were right for the last decade ?

The Leafs have to find cheap players ... they can't spend alot per player because they dont have the cap space. But that doesnt worry you.

Oh. I see. You believe in the Cap Fairy that excludes the Leafs from the rules of the NHL.

Fly my sweet Fairy fly ... and spread your Free money all over Leafs Nation.

 

[Teeder9]

@TGFireand Ice- Gary Bettman says "as a wild guess" salary cap will be $69, 70 million next season

Bettman "ballpark guesses" $69M-$70M for next year's salary cap. Sez falling loonie will affect cap, bringing it down a bit.

 

[Gallagbi]

Iguess you'll admit they were right for the last decade ?

The Leafs have to find cheap players ... they can't spend alot per player because they dont have the cap space. But that doesnt worry you.

Oh. I see. You believe in the Cap Fairy that excludes the Leafs from the rules of the NHL.

Fly my sweet Fairy fly ... and spread your Free money all over Leafs Nation.

Right how? That Toronto couldn't sign players to big contracts even though they did?

Half of this thread has been people explaining the Leafs cap situation and how flexible it is, but you want to close your eyes and pretend that isn't real. The Leafs have the majority of their top 6 signed and will sign 3-4 players below $1 million before their cap picture starts to take shape.

I asked you earlier, who do you think the Leafs will be unable to acquire for cap reasons?

 

[realgoodleafs]

It's not like anybody good is going to sign here anyways. They could free up cap space if they needed to.

 

[Trapper]

well like I tried to point out weeks ago.

folks are coming in here defending our cap position with just numbers and wholly ignoring that for these numbers to fit, this team will actually be taking a step BACK and not forward.

Bad cap allocation
Phaneuf + Gleason = 11 million
McDonough + Girardi = 10 million

Phaneuf is not worth more than either of NYR top pair.
IMO only.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

I guess you'll admit they were right for the last decade ?

The Leafs have to find cheap players ... they can't spend alot per player because they dont have the cap space. But that doesnt worry you.

Oh. I see. You believe in the Cap Fairy that excludes the Leafs from the rules of the NHL.

Fly my sweet Fairy fly ... and spread your Free money all over Leafs Nation.

Ha ha a little dramatic are we?

The Leafs were a bad team and bad teams simply have to overpay-overterm to attract players like Connolly, Komisarek, Armstrong because otherwise players would simply go to a better situation.

We're starting to have our own young-prime aged players who can be on good contracts like JVR, Bozak, Kadri, Gardiner, Rielly at the top of the lineup and then middle to bottom of the lineup candidates like Percy, Leivo, Ashton, Broll.

Toronto won't jump to contender status by next season. Too many things need to happen that can't all be accomplished in one off-season.

However, if a big ticket player that we need cap room for can and will be created. Just like when we got Phaneuf.

Lupul is tradeable if need be. Gunnarson is highly tradeable. Gleason is also likely tradeable and after next season highly tradeable.

Aside from Stastny no player in free agency is worth a big dollar-long term contract. Not being able to do a Grabo or Clarkson mistake this summer could actually be a good thing.

We have options.

 

[Faltorvo]

Also add in that only 1 player in free agency is worth a big contract of over 5 million in Stastny and very highly unlikely he'd be coming to Toronto.

In a trade for a big cap hit player we'd also be sending decent cap hit out whether it be Gunnarson, Gleason, Kadri, Lupul. Unless it were an outright dump like say a Lombardi or Booth contract were taken on.

Every year it's doom and gloom with all these internet capologists whether it be Liles or Finger or Connolly.

If we need the cap space for a player the team wants-needs I'm not the least bit worried about it happening.

We will see, the new CBA adds a few wrinkles.

It's not like we have seen a pattern of cap in/cap out trades since the new cba,right?

 

[Faltorvo]

Ha ha a little dramatic are we?

The Leafs were a bad team and bad teams simply have to overpay-overterm to attract players like Connolly, Komisarek, Armstrong because otherwise players would simply go to a better situation.

We're starting to have our own young-prime aged players who can be on good contracts like JVR, Bozak, Kadri, Gardiner, Rielly at the top of the lineup and then middle to bottom of the lineup candidates like Percy, Leivo, Ashton, Broll.

Toronto won't jump to contender status by next season. Too many things need to happen that can't all be accomplished in one off-season.

However, if a big ticket player that we need cap room for can and will be created. Just like when we got Phaneuf.

Lupul is tradeable if need be. Gunnarson is highly tradeable. Gleason is also likely tradeable and after next season highly tradeable.

Aside from Stastny no player in free agency is worth a big dollar-long term contract. Not being able to do a Grabo or Clarkson mistake this summer could actually be a good thing.

We have options.

Well we are out of easy get out of jail free cards now [mod], no more compliance buyouts or ahl stuffers.

Ya all said the cap was not an issue last year and yet we had to use both compliance =10m cap out just to fit under the max with the 8th worst team in the league.

[mod]

It's not that they found a way under the cap max, (well duhhhhhh)

It's , what team WAS ICED for that cap maxed team.

 

[achtungbaby]

Right how? That Toronto couldn't sign players to big contracts even though they did?

Half of this thread has been people explaining the Leafs cap situation and how flexible it is, but you want to close your eyes and pretend that isn't real. The Leafs have the majority of their top 6 signed and will sign 3-4 players below $1 million before their cap picture starts to take shape.

I asked you earlier, who do you think the Leafs will be unable to acquire for cap reasons?

The majority of our top 6 is signed. Unfortunately that same almost majority couldn't get the job done and is more expensive this coming season then the last one.

If we were in the playoffs and were doing some damage we'd have less to worry about. As it stands right now, we have problems. It looks like we've gone right back to plugging our ears and pretending that everything's fine. That didn't take long, the first round isn't even over yet.

 

[Mess]

The majority of our top 6 is signed. Unfortunately that same almost majority couldn't get the job done and is more expensive this coming season then the last one.

If we were in the playoffs and were doing some damage we'd have less to worry about. As it stands right now, we have problems. It looks like we've gone right back to plugging our ears and pretending that everything's fine. That didn't take long, the first round isn't even over yet.

The solution is to try and find a way to move cap resources from the wingers to more higher priority positions for more complete players.

Wingers are the bait to land #1C and #1D potentially.

Unfortunately its the low cap younger players contracts like Kadri and Gardiner that will have the most interest from other teams.

 

[hotpaws]

The majority of our top 6 is signed. Unfortunately that same almost majority couldn't get the job done and is more expensive this coming season then the last one.

If we were in the playoffs and were doing some damage we'd have less to worry about. As it stands right now, we have problems. It looks like we've gone right back to plugging our ears and pretending that everything's fine. That didn't take long, the first round isn't even over yet.

Every off season starts the same way

-miss the playoffs
-pretend we have some young great up and coming team
-act like we have unlimited cap space
-believe we can create cap space by dumping all our over paid under producing players for picks/prospects (Lupul/Gleeson}
-think we can pkg role players and mediocre prospects for stars
-look forward to potentially signing the next superstar who's comes up in a year or two

then when reality hits as training comes near the homers and MLSE paid posters attack anyone who dares bring up the off season failures

 

[Gallagbi]

The majority of our top 6 is signed. Unfortunately that same almost majority couldn't get the job done and is more expensive this coming season then the last one.

If we were in the playoffs and were doing some damage we'd have less to worry about. As it stands right now, we have problems. It looks like we've gone right back to plugging our ears and pretending that everything's fine. That didn't take long, the first round isn't even over yet.

By pretending everything is fine you mean acknowledging the cap space and where moves can be made?

Did you expect the Leafs to have 30+ mill in space to go sign a whole new team?

You're right that the majority of the top 6 is signed, but you also have movable pieces, some open cap space and NHL ready players on the Marlies. Plenty of potential for change with this roster. I broke down some of the numbers earlier in this thread.

 

[Mess]

Every off season starts the same way

-miss the playoffs
-pretend we have some young great up and coming team
-act like we have unlimited cap space
-believe we can create cap space by dumping all our over paid under producing players for picks/prospects (Lupul/Gleeson}
-think we can pkg role players and mediocre prospects for stars
-look forward to potentially signing the next superstar who's comes up in a year or two

then when reality hits as training comes near the homers and MLSE paid posters attack anyone who dares bring up the off season failures

Every Leaf season begins with unbridled optimism, and the only thing that ends up spoiling the party is reality.

I think it pretty easy to see that we're entering year 7 of the current rebuild with a team that is still one of the weakest defensively and that finishes in the bottom 10 and has already handed out big raises to players that lead them to this level of results.

With 12 players and $50 mil locked in of $70 mil cap (or less) this would be a tight situation for a current competitive team to complete its roster with cheaper contracts and retain competitiveness filling 11 spots for Approx. $20 mil. Leafs are in this position with a team that is drafting 8th overall and according to advanced stats one of the worst performing teams, that surrenders among the most goals against and prone to collapse under pressure.

Sure its possible (and almost necessary) to replace Kulemin, Bolland and Raymond all UFAs with Ashton, Holland and D'Amigo all RFAs on cheaper contracts to offset the leagues top contracts of Kessel and Phaneuf. However is that actually making the team better which is #1 priority, or simply just the necessary moves to comply with the salary cap?

 

[indigobuffalo]

The Habs are doing a much better job at managing the cap than the Leafs are. Which is pretty sad really. You would think that the team with the most money would be able to get the most out of it to build a solid team.

They've spread out their resources instead of concentrating it in one or two players like Toronto. Their centre depth is way better than ours, their bottom six is better, even their D is better despite getting paid less. Part of building a winning team is having some of your roster players outperforming their contracts, and Montreal has a lot of that. A lot of them are due for raises, but if they are given reasonable extensions with reasonable cap hits then they can be a contender for years to come.

I'd be a whole lot more excited about my team's future if I were a Montreal fan.

It is equally likely that the Leafs are going to re-sign Kadri at league minimum and Vanek will sign with us for $1.5M for 8 years.

Subban is not signing anything even remotely resembling a "reasonable" contract. Neither is Vanek, and they're already going to have a hard enough time keeping their bread-and-butter guys like Gionta on reasonable salary.

The Habs are classic victims of changing GMs too quickly. Their "core" players are not coming off their ELCs in timely manner, they're all coming off at the same time, so the Habs will have to cut bait with some, and it's a gamble-and-a-half to know which ones to give the money to and which ones to let walk or trade for less that fair market value (due to players not being signed).

Montreal much more closely resembles Ottawa from a decade ago than a team like Boston. Ottawa had to choose between keeping Zdeno Chara or keeping Wade Redden. They kept Redden.

Not saying the Habs will implode but it will be very hard for them to remain competitive.

I just love how people make comparisons against other teams that they "think" are well structured/built and really, they have not a hot-damn-clue about it...

 

[indigobuffalo]

Every off season starts the same way

-miss the playoffs
-pretend we have some young great up and coming team
-act like we have unlimited cap space
-believe we can create cap space by dumping all our over paid under producing players for picks/prospects (Lupul/Gleeson}
-think we can pkg role players and mediocre prospects for stars
-look forward to potentially signing the next superstar who's comes up in a year or two

then when reality hits as training comes near the homers and MLSE paid posters attack anyone who dares bring up the off season failures

How was Gleason under-performing? That guy's the reason we aren't drafting Ekblad. The Leafs were discombobulating and then he stabilized the team, although eventually we still found a way off the rails.