Line Combos: Leafs roster [Before] & [After] and work in progress

[Sypher04]

The need was against Montreal, if we had faced Oilers in the 1st, Winnipeg in the 2nd LV in the 3rd then got beat vs Tampa, is the need still to add Ritchie and that goon or would it be to be more balanced top to bottom? It seems like we are addressing a 7 game problem vs looking at the season as a whole. Say we had Ritchie all year last year are we better over the season + playoffs or worse?

Better, probably. I don't disagree they are out there fixing the problems of their playoff series, but not sure I agree it's all they are doing

 

[mydnyte]

And yet, physicality had nothing to do with why we lost vs Montreal.

Really??
Sandin getting tossed off the puck like a child not once but twice for goals against in a series clinching game wasnt due to physicality?
I'd say those 2 goals are the reason Montreal won the series, as they were rolling over until Perry went angry parent and slapped Sandin out of his way and scored, and that emboldened their entire team.

 

[mydnyte]

I don't consider crosschecking real physicality personally. It's just stickwork imo. Like it takes zero toughness to repeatedly smash your stick across a players back. I'd prefer to see players make a play for the puck, or take the body with a check. The stick crap drives me kinda nuts tbh

Fwiw, if the refs aren't going to call it, I don't blame teams, especially those like Montreal who have a pretty mediocre roster, for doing it. I also don't expect it to change. I would have liked to see more push back in this regard.

when its Weber at 6'4" 230 lbs and Chariot at 6'3" 225 lbs laying the lumber its physicality, and with composite sticks, it hurts.
they fact that it was never called made me sick, either call it all year long (playoffs included) or never call it ever.

 

[OVO16]

Crosshceking is def physicality. It's a technique the leafs don't use to their advantage at all

 

[VanW27]

when its Weber at 6'4" 230 lbs and Chariot at 6'3" 225 lbs laying the lumber its physicality, and with composite sticks, it hurts.
they fact that it was never called made me sick, either call it all year long (playoffs included) or never call it ever.

It was so weird to me the way the league just put the whistle away for the playoffs as a whole (forget just our series), I get wanting to amp up intensity and letting guys get away with some more pushing/shoving/roughing and give the benefit of the doubt on late hits or charges - but I don't get the stickwork and the holding. All that achieves is turning every game into a boring slogfest.

Actually I do have a pretty good idea why the league did that, parity, in a game with no rules anyone has a chance of winning, skill and ability play less of a factor. Credit to Montreal for taking advantage of the rules as they were being called.

 

[The Iceman]

Wonder if we got worn down a bit?

I think the biggest problem was the minutes our top guys were forced to play. Marner's minutes were unsustainable IMO.
JT going down meant others had to play more which is unfortunate.

Yes the team was worn down. Maybe with Kampf he can take some tough minutes away from our top guys.

 

[noo]

Some quotes from the Amazon film Ice Guardians that I found interesting..

"When they start beating up on ya, you can't allow it to happen. Or it just becomes a bad scene every game."

"If you know that a 6'5", 245 pound 'ice boxer' is coming after you because you take a cheap shot at one of his players, you're probably gonna be less likely to do it."

"If you're gonna score goals, and you're gonna be the guy that is gonna beat the other team, you're gonna have to go through some punishment. But the unnecessary punishment, the continuous punishment, that's when they step in... every game it's important."

"Guys would literally not hit me some games because of who they'd have to deal with"

Now, obviously enforcers aren't really a thing anymore.. but I think adding guys like Ritchie/Gabriel will really help the stars get some extra ice.. especially in the playoffs when you face the same guys 4-7 games in a row.

Teams won't be able to take liberties on the stars with no consequences.. Simmonds alone isn't going to scare anyone off when he's playing 10 mins a night. Now one of these guys will be on the ice almost all game.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think the biggest problem was the minutes our top guys were forced to play. Marner's minutes were unsustainable IMO.
JT going down meant others had to play more which is unfortunate.

Yes the team was worn down. Maybe with Kampf he can take some tough minutes away from our top guys.

They need to get him off the PK imo to get his ice time to a more realistic spot but depending on the rest of the roster composition, do they have 6 forwards that can actually legit PK?

Matthews, Marner, 88, JT, Spezza (I don't count being a face off guy), Simmonds are 6/12 roster spots.

So Kampf, Kase, Bunting, Ritchie, Brooks, Engvall, Soup ?

 

[Sypher04]

Some quotes from the Amazon film Ice Guardians that I found interesting..



Now, obviously enforcers aren't really a thing anymore.. but I think adding guys like Ritchie/Gabriel will really help the stars get some extra ice.. especially in the playoffs when you face the same guys 4-7 games in a row.

Teams won't be able to take liberties on the stars with no consequences.. Simmonds alone isn't going to scare anyone off when he's playing 10 mins a night. Now one of these guys will be on the ice almost all game.

I'd be legitimately shocked if Gabriel plays more than a half dozen games of that contract in the NHL

 

[Sypher04]

Really??
Sandin getting tossed off the puck like a child not once but twice for goals against in a series clinching game wasnt due to physicality?
I'd say those 2 goals are the reason Montreal won the series, as they were rolling over until Perry went angry parent and slapped Sandin out of his way and scored, and that emboldened their entire team.

I'd argue that is an instance where we can see Sandins lack of physical maturity more than an indication that montreal's physicality was an overall problem for us.

 

[zeke]

Gabriel is the Sabourin replacement.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Gabriel is the Sabourin replacement.

Hasn't Sabourin at least won an NHL fight? Gabriel I don't think won a single fight last year, hardly intimidating.

 

[noo]

I'd be legitimately shocked if Gabriel plays more than a half dozen games of that contract in the NHL

TBH I don't know much about the guy.. just that he fights lol. I'm sure he'll get his shot, though.. and those quotes show that you need players protecting your stars, which is something they've always lacked.. could be a big reason why our stars disappear in the playoffs. They get hacked at and run at all game, and no one on the team ever responds..

Also, forgot to mention Mr. Bunting.. I don't think he's a fighter?, but a self-described "pest"

Leafs haven't had anyone like these guys in the Matthews era... they've always tried to fill the gaps with veteran/leadership or boom/bust skill guys, have never had anyone to intimidate the opponent

 

[Mess]

They need to get him off the PK imo to get his ice time to a more realistic spot but depending on the rest of the roster composition, do they have 6 forwards that can actually legit PK?

So Kampf, Kase, Bunting, Ritchie, Brooks, Engvall, Soup ?

Slim pickings there with Kase on IR most of the last year with 0:00 SH/TOI even in past year with Boston and Anaheim he didn't much PK time, Bunting with 26 NHL games under his belt with 0:00 SH TOI/g, Brooks not even on the team perhaps with 0.26 sec SH TOI/g , and Ritchie who had 0:00 SH TOI/g and Engvall 0:.33 secs SH TOI/g.

You really have Mikheyev and Kerfoot from holdovers and Kampf as new additions.

Of course Hyman was Leafs leader in SH TOI/g @ 1:58 so Kampf @ 2:19 basically replaces him on the PK.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Slim pickings there with Kase on IR most of the last year with 0:00 SH/TOI, Bunting with 26 NHL games under his belt with 0:00 SH TOI/g, Brooks not even on the team perhaps with 0.26 sec SH TOI/g , and Ritchie who had 0:00 SH TOI/g and Engvall 0:.33 secs SH TOI/g.

You really have Mikheyev and Kerfoot from holdovers and Kampf as new additions.

Of course Hyman was Leafs leader in SH TOI/g @ 1:58 so Kampf @ 2:19 basically replaces him on the PK.

Yea, this is gonna be a problem I think.

I know Ritchie did pk a bit in Anaheim but I believe that was mostly under Carlyle...he had JVR & Bozak kill penalties here.

I don't know if this flew under Dubas's radar or if PK will be the flavor of next off-season because it was a critical flaw of his roster construction this year.

 

[Gabriel426]

The thing all these “advanced stats” junkies don’t realize is that the series is 7 game segments. Blowing Montreal out 5-1 shouldn’t affect how you judge the other 6 games but because they look at the numbers cumulatively they are mislead. Coaches make adjustments, score affects strategy etc etc

Looking at stats cumulatively only matters if the series is awarded on aggregate which is a soccer thing

It would help if the spreadsheet crowd owned hockey equipment

Great Post

 

[zeke]

Yea, this is gonna be a problem I think.

I know Ritchie did pk a bit in Anaheim but I believe that was mostly under Carlyle...he had JVR & Bozak kill penalties here.

I don't know if this flew under Dubas's radar or if PK will be the flavor of next off-season because it was a critical flaw of his roster construction this year.

What is the problem exactly?

PKtoi/gm last year

Hyman 1:58 ---> Kampf 2:16
Marner 1:57
Mikheyev 1:35
Kerfoot 1:31
Spezza 0:48
Engvall 0:33

 

[Mess]

Yea, this is gonna be a problem I think.

I know Ritchie did pk a bit in Anaheim but I believe that was mostly under Carlyle...he had JVR & Bozak kill penalties here.

I don't know if this flew under Dubas's radar or if PK will be the flavor of next off-season because it was a critical flaw of his roster construction this year.

Gone are the days of Hyman, Connor Brown, Kapanen, Bozak, Komarov etc phased out over the past 3 years for more offensive players. Yet its these kinds of 2-way players that are defensive aware that are useful in the playoffs in low scoring tight checking games that also PK when needed.

If you plan on playing Ritchie, Simmonds and Gabriel types more your PK time is going to go up. David Kampf is going to really busy trying to kill them off.

With playoff path going through TB and BOS in the Atlantic going to need a very good PK just to minimize the damage those PP can inflict. We have lost a series to Boston in the past where the Perfection Line feasted on the PP to eliminate the Leafs and TB PP is even more dangerous still. Montreal's PK one of the main reason they advanced to the SCF.

With the move to a bigger more physical team the offset of that is your PK opportunities are going to increase as well.

 

[ACC1224]

Yea, this is gonna be a problem I think.

I know Ritchie did pk a bit in Anaheim but I believe that was mostly under Carlyle...he had JVR & Bozak kill penalties here.

I don't know if this flew under Dubas's radar or if PK will be the flavor of next off-season because it was a critical flaw of his roster construction this year.

Marner needs to come off the PK. He plays way too many minutes.

 

[myleafs]

Last year the Leafs ranked 27th overall in hits per game in the regular season, and the new additions this offseason seem to address that, because come playoff time in can be a difference maker in a series.

The question will now be do those new additions actually bring those elements when the games start. I will not be convinced they do until they do.

 

[Mess]

Marner needs to come off the PK. He plays way too many minutes.

FWIW

Marner's 22:26 TOI/g was #1 among all NHL forwards in 2020-21 and his 21:33 placed him the top 5 in 2019-20 regular season.

Those were also in covid shortened years 70 and 56 game seasons.

You have to wonder how much is left in the tank for a long playoff run if you're running him into the ground in the regular season?

His 24:39 in the playoffs last year was #2 OA behind only Matthews @ 25:00 TOI/g and their productivity decline tied to their unsustainable TOI/g is likely no coincidence.

 

[WTFMAN99]

What is the problem exactly?

PKtoi/gm last year

Hyman 1:58 ---> Kampf 2:16
Marner 1:57
Mikheyev 1:35
Kerfoot 1:31
Spezza 0:48
Engvall 0:33

We would like to reduce Marner's minutes and improve. In a relatively mediocre division...this was our PK...

 

[myleafs]

It's funny - as the biggest hater of the Simmonds signing last year, I have to say I was pleasantly surprised by his play - even after injury.

Despite his lack of speed he wasn't a defensive liability and clicked with pretty much every line combo he was tried with - even in his brief stints on the top two lines.

Funny how people can watch the same thing and yet see different things. I thought he started slow got on a bit of a heater, got hurt and was kinda useless after that and at times I wondered why he was even in the nhl as his passing, grit and hockey iq seemed non existent. I thought he and Thornton were gonna bring some physical play to the playoffs and I didn't see anything from either one of them. And I was happy when they signed him originally, now not so much.

 

[mydnyte]

It was so weird to me the way the league just put the whistle away for the playoffs as a whole (forget just our series), I get wanting to amp up intensity and letting guys get away with some more pushing/shoving/roughing and give the benefit of the doubt on late hits or charges - but I don't get the stickwork and the holding. All that achieves is turning every game into a boring slogfest.

Actually I do have a pretty good idea why the league did that, parity, in a game with no rules anyone has a chance of winning, skill and ability play less of a factor. Credit to Montreal for taking advantage of the rules as they were being called.

yea, but in some other series, most of the Col or TB games, they were calling lots of penalties.
...but, some of the calls in the Toronto vs Mtl series were insane ...break a stick over someones back is okay, but, a hook that doesnt even take the player out of stride gets called ...on the same shift

 

[Dekes For Days]

this was our PK...

We already got rid of the player that almost single-handedly tanked our PK: Andersen