Line Combos: Leafs roster [Before] & [After] and work in progress
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That forward group is pretty sick. Way to go Dubas. Well done.
It's appalling how much depth they've lost since Dubas took over as GM.
It's appalling how much depth they've lost since Dubas took over as GM.
Bomber0104
Registered User
Kerfoot probably plays LW with Kampf as our third line C and some other bum will play fourth line C.
Really, really bad forward group.
Really, really bad forward group.
Clark4Ever
What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
UFA-Matthews-Marner
Bunting-Tavares-Nylander
Robertson-Kerfoot-Spezza
Mikheyev-Kampf-Simmonds
Brooks, Engvall
Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl
Dermott/Sandin-Liljegren
Menell
Campbell
Mrazek
Bunting-Tavares-Nylander
Robertson-Kerfoot-Spezza
Mikheyev-Kampf-Simmonds
Brooks, Engvall
Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl
Dermott/Sandin-Liljegren
Menell
Campbell
Mrazek
Team looks fairly similar to me. Bit pieces moved around minus Hyman. 34 and 16 should be good enough to not need a Hyman on their line to succeed.
Gally looked good but he scored at a replaceable top 6 pace. I'm sure they could get him back on a reasonable deal if they wanted. Unless I missed him signing somewhere.
Foligno was here for like 10 games, and was injured anyways so it's not like we're going to miss him.
They definitely need some growth from players, ie Robertson, or Bunting to come in and impress.
Gally looked good but he scored at a replaceable top 6 pace. I'm sure they could get him back on a reasonable deal if they wanted. Unless I missed him signing somewhere.
Foligno was here for like 10 games, and was injured anyways so it's not like we're going to miss him.
They definitely need some growth from players, ie Robertson, or Bunting to come in and impress.
I would exclude Foligno from last year line-up. Majority of games played he was out of the line-up. I don't think it's nearly as far off as people are making it out to be.. Mess has been the poster boy of whimpering on FA Day 1 and this thread is consistent with his perpetrated complaint system.
Reality is.. we lost a core player in the first period of game 1 for the series. 1/3 showed up. The Leafs don't win if the core doesn't show up. It's simple.
Whoever rides shotgun on the top 2 lines aren't going to hinder those players. There's never been a history of it.
Reality is.. we lost a core player in the first period of game 1 for the series. 1/3 showed up. The Leafs don't win if the core doesn't show up. It's simple.
Whoever rides shotgun on the top 2 lines aren't going to hinder those players. There's never been a history of it.
The depth has just disappeared. It looks awful. Where'd it go?
justashadowof
Registered User
- Aug 15, 2020
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The theme of next summer (if Dubas gets to continue this slow motion train derailment) will be "we need to lower our stars' ice time in the regular season."
Lol this lineup is not deep and soft
XXX-Matthews-Marner
Kerfoot-Tavares-Nylander
Engvall-Kampf-Mikheyev
Bunting-Spezza-Simmonds
Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl
Sandin-Dermott
Campbell-Mrazek
XXX-Matthews-Marner
Kerfoot-Tavares-Nylander
Engvall-Kampf-Mikheyev
Bunting-Spezza-Simmonds
Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl
Sandin-Dermott
Campbell-Mrazek
Hyman's contract is nutty and they shouldn't have signed it. Glad they didn't.
Reality is they need to be more successful at their bargain bin shopping (Bunting vs Vesey/Thornton) and integrating kids in (Robertson, J.Anderson). They need other guys to get better internally/give them more than they got last year (What is Mikheyev?).
Goaltending is improved - defense is more or less the same, Bogosion was good but I think some of that loss can be made up from internal growth of Sandin/Dermott/Liljegren.
Reality is with a flat cap - when a good player around 29-30 years old is a pending UFA and you lose them, there is some short term pain. Montreal lost Danault, Tatar and Weber - added Savard and Hoffman - they can do more (so can the Leafs allbeit less) - but that's the reality. You don't want to sign Danault/Hyman to their deals even if it makes you worse in the immediate future, and you probably cannot replace them with the cap savings you get from them.
Florida's forwards are better - their goaltending is probably worse after losing their best performing goalie in Dreidger this past year - sort of the flip of Toronto's situation but I love Reinhart for them.
Colorado is probably going to be worse - losing Donskoi, Saad, Graves, Grubauer (though I like Kuemper)
Carolina is going to be worse - losing Hamilton - (i'll call their goaltending a lateral move but i'm not sure it is).
Pittsburgh lost McCann
Tampa's losses are obvious but who cares since they won two cups.
Reality is they need to be more successful at their bargain bin shopping (Bunting vs Vesey/Thornton) and integrating kids in (Robertson, J.Anderson). They need other guys to get better internally/give them more than they got last year (What is Mikheyev?).
Goaltending is improved - defense is more or less the same, Bogosion was good but I think some of that loss can be made up from internal growth of Sandin/Dermott/Liljegren.
Reality is with a flat cap - when a good player around 29-30 years old is a pending UFA and you lose them, there is some short term pain. Montreal lost Danault, Tatar and Weber - added Savard and Hoffman - they can do more (so can the Leafs allbeit less) - but that's the reality. You don't want to sign Danault/Hyman to their deals even if it makes you worse in the immediate future, and you probably cannot replace them with the cap savings you get from them.
Florida's forwards are better - their goaltending is probably worse after losing their best performing goalie in Dreidger this past year - sort of the flip of Toronto's situation but I love Reinhart for them.
Colorado is probably going to be worse - losing Donskoi, Saad, Graves, Grubauer (though I like Kuemper)
Carolina is going to be worse - losing Hamilton - (i'll call their goaltending a lateral move but i'm not sure it is).
Pittsburgh lost McCann
Tampa's losses are obvious but who cares since they won two cups.
I've said this in other threads, but you cant
fairly compare last season post trade deadline to the 2nd day of the off-season. It's not fair, not accurate and completely biased. @Mess is smart enough to know this, but chooses not to.
Nobody knows what Kyle has planned for the remaining months of the off-season, in every sense this is a work in progress.
Even so, it's a poor leap to compare post trade deadline to a season opening roster. Often the post trade deadline roster has expiring UFA's brought in and players on huge retention deals.
Obviously there is work to do this off-season and cap space left to be able to do it. Anyone judging this roster now is simply hating on Dubas for the fun of it.
fairly compare last season post trade deadline to the 2nd day of the off-season. It's not fair, not accurate and completely biased. @Mess is smart enough to know this, but chooses not to.
Nobody knows what Kyle has planned for the remaining months of the off-season, in every sense this is a work in progress.
Even so, it's a poor leap to compare post trade deadline to a season opening roster. Often the post trade deadline roster has expiring UFA's brought in and players on huge retention deals.
Obviously there is work to do this off-season and cap space left to be able to do it. Anyone judging this roster now is simply hating on Dubas for the fun of it.
What depth? The depth we had 4 years ago when our budding stars were on ELCs?
Our stars just like every other team have to be the difference makers. Whether or not they can is another story.
Mess
Global Moderator
[After] and work in progress
This is a snap shot of today and will be updated as more changes are made but I thought "work in progress" would be self explanatory.. Its right in the title of the thread.
Can't include things now that haven't happened yet.
Mopar
Registered User
- May 3, 2021
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A1LeafNation
Good, is simply not good enough!
- Oct 17, 2010
- 27,935
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I think you nailed it. I don't see Robertson and Bunting in the line up at the same time. It will be one or the other.
That will be a miserable 4th line to play against.
ShaneFalco
Registered User
I like Robertson as much as the next guy ad he seems to have a good shot, but I'm not sure he's ready for playoff hockey if he makes it that far (this year)
Buds17
Registered User
- Nov 29, 2015
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Can't really compare a playoff roster to a team in the early days of free agency/the offseason (ex. no cap in the playoffs). It is fair to point out that the team doesn't look to be particularly improved upon when factoring in departures versus arrivals. OTOH...
Eternal Leaf
Registered User
Anyone looking at that team and expecting a cup is fooling themselves.
There's no playoff toughness in the lineup and adding an average LW won't cut it. At a minimum, they need a star LW that plays physical and has a good playoff track record.
They also need Robertson to hit the ground running as a young star and that seems far-fetched.
There's no playoff toughness in the lineup and adding an average LW won't cut it. At a minimum, they need a star LW that plays physical and has a good playoff track record.
They also need Robertson to hit the ground running as a young star and that seems far-fetched.
TheScandal89
Registered User
- Jun 26, 2016
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I think your pretty spot on with the positioning of the players acquired, Kerfoot is more the 3rd center with Kampf playing 4th but able to move up
Bunting and Robertson likely fight for 2nd/3rd line LW.
I'm sure I'm crazy to suggest this but I wouldn't mind trying Robertson as 1st LW. Sure he won't be the puck retriever, but his shot could create more space for them. Look at Montreal's top playoff line Toffoli - Suzuki - Caufield. It worked well for them. And putting Robertson on a line and expecting him to be the 3rd line driver right away may prove too difficult for him. Put the talent with the talent.
But you have to be committed and try from camp, you can't just expect to switch mid game randomly and get instant results.
Robertson - Matthews - Marner
Tatar - Tavares - Nylander
Bunting - Kerfoot - Spezza
Mikheyev - Kampf - Simmonds
I put Tatar because he is rumored, I personally don't want. I would also like to sign Nick Richtie but hes 3rd/4th LW and makes simmonds useless.
Bunting and Robertson likely fight for 2nd/3rd line LW.
I'm sure I'm crazy to suggest this but I wouldn't mind trying Robertson as 1st LW. Sure he won't be the puck retriever, but his shot could create more space for them. Look at Montreal's top playoff line Toffoli - Suzuki - Caufield. It worked well for them. And putting Robertson on a line and expecting him to be the 3rd line driver right away may prove too difficult for him. Put the talent with the talent.
But you have to be committed and try from camp, you can't just expect to switch mid game randomly and get instant results.
Robertson - Matthews - Marner
Tatar - Tavares - Nylander
Bunting - Kerfoot - Spezza
Mikheyev - Kampf - Simmonds
I put Tatar because he is rumored, I personally don't want. I would also like to sign Nick Richtie but hes 3rd/4th LW and makes simmonds useless.
Last edited:
OptimusReim
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2011
- 111
- 131
Game 7 roster v. today for comparison. Seems like the best comparison given this is the roster that actually lost the series and played the majority of it
Game 7
Hyman - Matthews - Marner
Galchenyuk - Kerfoot - Nylander
Mikheyev - Engvall - Simmonds
Thornton - Foligno - Spezza
Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Sandin - Bogosian
Campbell
Andersen
Today
XXXX - Matthews - Marner
Bunting - Tavares - Nylander
Mikheyev - Kerfoot - Spezza
Engvall - Kämpf - Simmonds
Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Sandin - Dermott
Campbell
Mrazek
Game 7
Hyman - Matthews - Marner
Galchenyuk - Kerfoot - Nylander
Mikheyev - Engvall - Simmonds
Thornton - Foligno - Spezza
Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Sandin - Bogosian
Campbell
Andersen
Today
XXXX - Matthews - Marner
Bunting - Tavares - Nylander
Mikheyev - Kerfoot - Spezza
Engvall - Kämpf - Simmonds
Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Sandin - Dermott
Campbell
Mrazek
Barring a major trade (no free agent out there that can change this), this will be the worst lineup the team has ever iced in the Matthews/Marner era.
Looks like an improvement to me - just by virtue of having Tavares. I'm sure there will be injuries, but I also assume they'll add someone at the deadline to help out up front as well, so...
Bad leadership. Plain and simple. dubas caved in to the demands of the core and now they're declining at a stage in which they should be ascending. They spent everything and only have nickels and dimes left to fill out the roster again. It's a really poorly constructed team and it makes total sense that they continuously lose.
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