Proposal: Leafs need a few changes

[Captain14]

But we have shown this ability from time to time... it is a hard (intensive) way to play, and its not realistic to expect a team to play that way all season. But they go so far the other way sometimes it becomes very concerning. I worry that they feel like they have done it and feel they can flick the switch at any time... that is a loser plan if there ever was one.

Core pieces moving I feel would be Marner (tough choice and he will be awesome wherever he goes) and Rielly. This would enable the roster to be filled with more complete players up front and we'd be on the search for a replacement on the back end.

Marner and Reilly were my first choices as well.

 

[Trapper]

I think at this point it would be a mistake to trade Nylander. The player that really needs to go is Tavares. He eats up way to much cap space but with his no trade I think it would be impossible so that only leaves Marner as trade options

I don’t really care about Nylander or Marner or whoever if the team doesn’t progress.

You can change goalies and bottom 6 47 times but if the core as a whole (meaning JT, Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly) gets “stuck”, just can’t achieve sustainable playoff success as a group, then changes are required.

Its Maple Leaf team first, core unit success first, not individual player. If the core needs to change, you change it.

Sure for the first 5-6 years you try everything else around them but with time ticking on them becoming 3rd contract UFAs, you may need to change.

 

[Stephen]

Yeah, but Tavares was a free asset, except for the 11M cap hit. After we signed Tavares, we could've acquired a top pairing D man by trading one of Kadri or the big 3. In the scenario, where Tavares isn't signed, you will be trying to sign a top pairing D man in free agency, which is quite difficult. In the season that Tavares signed for us, Nylander was holding out, I would've traded Nylander for a D

In hindsight, Tavares' signing had a domino effect which pushed up the salaries of the Big 3 and forced out Bozak, JVR immediately, as well as Gardiner leaving and a complicated salary tap dance involving Zaitsev, Brown, Marleau, Kapanen and Johnsson over the a 2 summer period as well as some other minor pieces like Martin and Komarov. No one could have predicted a pandemic and flat cap, but it did have some hidden costs. Generally worth it though if Tavares keeps at a PPG level and is a factor shift to shift for the next few years.

The Kadri deal looks like a real misstep though which really hurt the team without solving the defensive position, though we can at least say that was resolved with the Brodie signing which worked out in the end with a one year Barrie misadventure.

If the Leafs continue to struggle in the playoffs I think we would be due for the Marner/Nylander shoe to drop along with a decision on Rielly long term. Might have to look at making a play for a Hamilton or Jones via UFA and how different would the core look if we had a Tkachuk Brother or something high end but different in the core. You can only replace every support player for so long but if it's the same core having the same problems, the core has to change.

 

[Mugzy97]

But this team is like a roller coaster with its ups and downs. Which team will show up in the playoffs, the one that looked like a serious Cup contender at times, or the one that would struggle to even beat Detroit?

Hopefully a motivated group

 

[Menzinger]

Yeah, but Tavares was a free asset, except for the 11M cap hit. After we signed Tavares, we could've acquired a top pairing D man by trading one of Kadri or the big 3. In the scenario, where Tavares isn't signed, you will be trying to sign a top pairing D man in free agency, which is quite difficult. In the season that Tavares signed for us, Nylander was holding out, I would've traded Nylander for a D

Though that's essentially what played out, in that time they've managed to add both Muzzin and Brodie (who essentially ate up Kadris capspace)

 

[Cobra777]

Why? We're 5 points out of first place and still leading our division after a cold streak. We've got nothing to worry about yet, this is just a hot take.
These playoffs are going to be the most important playoffs in a long time because we don't have to go through Tampa or Boston to get to the conference finals.

Bingo what does that tell you about this team, if we had to play the teams in the rest of the conferences all season long while just eaking out 1 goal victories against the likes of Ottawa, Mtl, Calgary and the Canucks whom we have also lost to these teams, we would have had our arses handed to us.

 

[Mugzy97]

Bingo what does that tell you about this team, if we had to play the teams in the rest of the conferences all season long while just eaking out 1 goal victories against the likes of Ottawa, Mtl, Calgary and the Canucks whom we have also lost to these teams, we would have had our arses handed to us.

That's just speculation as there is no proof behind that assumption. Maybe Ottawa, Mtl, Calgary and Canucks would be winning against these teams in the other conference as well?

Also, what other team is currently playing their newly acquired third string goalie?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Foligno JT Willy
Hyman Matty Mitch
Mik Nash Wayner
xxx Kerfoot Spezz

Playoff lines up front .. all lines need size and toughness for small ice playoff hockey .. if Wayner plays tough he will stay in top 9 if he does not then someone else will fill in .. Robertson and Jumbo likely to be xxx but give edge to Jumbo as a vet

 

[Fogelhund]

Such is the way of the Leafs fans. We lose a few, people are mad at everyone, the sky is falling... blame Rielly, blame Nylander, trade them away, fire Dubas, fire Shanahan.... I mean, it's like a broken record.

At the start of the year, the one truth was, this team will get as far as it's top players allow them. Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander, Rielly... and maybe Brodie. These guys need to play hard, and show a willingness to do what it takes to win. At times they have, and at times they haven't. Even with the shaky goaltending, we've lost games, we should have won... but didn't finish enough. Every single day, these guys need to get their lunch buckets, go to work, and get the job done... the stars. Adding Foligno, Hutton etc, might help, but our top guys have to be ready to play playoff hockey, and fight to win every day. That truth is the same today, and will conitue to be the truth.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

We're fine right now. Playoffs is where it's going to count. Quite frankly if we don't make it out of the North that is disappointing and the core will be called into question (and rightfully so). Our 10 million dollar guys are going to need to dominate. Anything less is a unacceptable at this point.

 

[Byron Bitz]

I truly believe in the core of Matthews, Marner, Tavares and Rielly. I hope we keep them together for a long time and give them as many kicks at the can as possible with different supporting casts until we find the right ones. Goaltending is the main issue facing this team. I also always believed in the Capitals core when everyone was saying they will never win a cup but they kept them together and eventually they won.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Such is the way of the Leafs fans. We lose a few, people are mad at everyone, the sky is falling... blame Rielly, blame Nylander, trade them away, fire Dubas, fire Shanahan.... I mean, it's like a broken record.

At the start of the year, the one truth was, this team will get as far as it's top players allow them. Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander, Rielly... and maybe Brodie. These guys need to play hard, and show a willingness to do what it takes to win. At times they have, and at times they haven't. Even with the shaky goaltending, we've lost games, we should have won... but didn't finish enough. Every single day, these guys need to get their lunch buckets, go to work, and get the job done... the stars. Adding Foligno, Hutton etc, might help, but our top guys have to be ready to play playoff hockey, and fight to win every day. That truth is the same today, and will conitue to be the truth.

Yup with the way the team was built, I.e. half the cap to 4 forwards, the leafs will live and die with those 4 forwards.

Changing around the complimentary pieces doesn't really change much as you said.

 

[Iapyi]

I wonder what this team would look like if everytime "fans" thought they needed a shake up, they got a shake up.

My guess is we'd be looking at ping pong balls.

Just look back to before the Shanaplan came into place when The Impatient Fan ruled the roost. We're finally past that mindset, for the most part, and the organization doesn't panic with knee-jerk reactions like we used to.

 

[Teeder Keon]

Get rid of Charmin ultra soft marshmallows on our team unless the are our elite stars ...

 

[nuck]

In hindsight, Tavares' signing had a domino effect which pushed up the salaries of the Big 3 and forced out Bozak, JVR immediately, as well as Gardiner leaving and a complicated salary tap dance involving Zaitsev, Brown, Marleau, Kapanen and Johnsson over the a 2 summer period as well as some other minor pieces like Martin and Komarov. No one could have predicted a pandemic and flat cap, but it did have some hidden costs. Generally worth it though if Tavares keeps at a PPG level and is a factor shift to shift for the next few years.

The Kadri deal looks like a real misstep though which really hurt the team without solving the defensive position, though we can at least say that was resolved with the Brodie signing which worked out in the end with a one year Barrie misadventure.

If the Leafs continue to struggle in the playoffs I think we would be due for the Marner/Nylander shoe to drop along with a decision on Rielly long term. Might have to look at making a play for a Hamilton or Jones via UFA and how different would the core look if we had a Tkachuk Brother or something high end but different in the core. You can only replace every support player for so long but if it's the same core having the same problems, the core has to change.

Tavares was an unnecessary asset based on some salary stickhandling that Dubas expected to be able to do. They didn't need him but he was a luxury they thought they could pursue based on what they felt would be reasonable expectations from the big 3 on their second deals. There was no Doughty or Pietrangelo to be hadso away they go. But Nylander's failure to understand he was not worth Pasta money and would eat up a third of the season to sell his point was not predictable. Chain reaction of salary inflation to Matthews and Marner and then JT provides one elite year while being paid for seven and here we are. So he contributed to stupid salary inflation and may not even be a ppg guy any more. An apparent mistake but fortune favors the bold right?

It can still be close to worth it but that will require more than regular season success. JT needs to have his head in the game because that's what made him high end and he hasn't looked like that most of the year. I think Dubas will sink or swim based on the big 4 so if he doesn't get fired this is what we have. But right now its, "who would have thought the club would only need average goaltending to succeed but wouldn't get it"?

KD has filled in the cracks well around the porous "team dangle" and then his goalies went into the toilet. In the end this is the best Leafs team in many years but the goaltending can't get above the suck level and we can't blame Dubas or Tavares for that. Freddy must be contagious, except maybe to Hutch.

 

[seanlinden]

I agree 100%. We have the type of roster that will likely make the playoffs every year, but nowhere near the roster to grind out wins against the heavier, finish your checks, neutral zone trapping teams.

In my opinion, one of the core and Reilly have to be moved, if anything, to allow the rest of the core to remain intact, to add a few of the “right” pieces and restocking our draft positions.
I’ve seen enough of this team over the years to know it will take more than Foligno and Nash to change our culture.
We are not a difficult team to play against and that has to change before we can be thought of as a true contender.

While I would agree with you that the "core" of Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares and Rielly don't necessarily scream "go to war playoff types"... I'd also question -- just how much does a team's 5 best players need to "scream" that?

On D, Rielly may not be the most physical guy out there, but his $5m cap hit enables us to have a very quietly effective partner in Brodie, and Muzzin who embodies the "go to war playoff type", but who is also a veteran that understands it's a long regular season and you can't go to war every night. Mix in a guy like Bogosian on the 3rd pair, and you've certainly got enough of "those types" on the backend. Toronto may not have the "cachet" of Tampa or Carolina's defence, but their top 6 isn't going to be the reason they lose a playoff series.

Up front I think it's a bigger question -- that also comes down to an inherent challenge of building around a trio that is 24 or younger; all of which were high draft picks. I don't want to downplay the work that any of these guys put in to become who they are in the game today; but the reality is -- the road has been "easier" for them than most of the players in the NHL. Matthews dominated at every single level. Nylander's father played over 15 years and almost 1000 games in the NHL. These guys have long, fortuitous careers ahead of them. The concept of "opportunity being fleeting" is not going to be as set in as it would be on guys who spent more time working their way through the minors, or grew up on a farm, or guys who've gotten close to a cup.

Give Dubas credit, he's identified that and brought in accessory players who understand that possibly better than anyone in the league in Jumbo & Spezza... guys who were in the position that these 3 were ~15 years ago...former captains who've been to the Stanley Cup finals. Guys that not only know what it takes, but can be a reminder and inspiration to the younger stars on our team as to what happens if you don't seize your opportunities.

Is it enough? time will of course tell. Ultimately, if it's not enough, the Leafs are going to have a real challenge because of how he handled the Nylander negotiations, and set a bar for M&M with Tavares' deal... which really limits what you can do around this group.

I don't forsee any fathomable way you move Auston Matthews. Tavares has an NMC, and despite him having a similar "junior stature" to Matthews in his exceptional ability at a young age, at 30 years old, he's getting to the point where he has the urgency. Trading Marner, as tempting as freeing up $11m would be... is extremely difficult given his ability to make anyone he plays with better, and his natural fit with both of our top centres. Nylander seems to be developing into a likely consistent 30 goal scorer. If you trade him, it's going to be difficult to replace him.

 

[zeke]

I won’t offer any proposals here but I do think this team would benefit from a shakeup. The only players that are safe in my eyes are Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Brodie, Muzzin, Hyman and the notable prospects.

I think Reilly is a great player but I don’t think his primarily offensive skill set is what this team needs. As much as I’d hate for him to be traded, I think it needs to happen. It also needs to be for an upgrade or for cap space to sign Dougie Hamilton. In terms of trade, I would love to acquire Seth Jones or a player of similar caliber and play styles. He’s is most likely not available but just a thought.

Secondly, I think Nylander has to go. He is an amazing offensive talent but I don’t think this excuses his lack of effort in the neutral and defensive zones. I would look to acquire a player that is pass first and stylistically similar to Kailer Yamamoto. Hard working player that knows his job is to win puck battles and set up Tavares.

In terms of goaltending, I think Dubas takes a serious look at Linus Ullmark. He puts up better numbers than Freddy and he plays on the Sabres. His injury trouble worries me but hopefully he can stay healthy. I think he would be a good starter behind the Leafs D.

P.s. the leafs are about to go wire to wire 1st place.

 

[Holymakinaw]

I won’t offer any proposals here but I do think this team would benefit from a shakeup. The only players that are safe in my eyes are Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Brodie, Muzzin, Hyman and the notable prospects.

I think Reilly is a great player but I don’t think his primarily offensive skill set is what this team needs. As much as I’d hate for him to be traded, I think it needs to happen. It also needs to be for an upgrade or for cap space to sign Dougie Hamilton. In terms of trade, I would love to acquire Seth Jones or a player of similar caliber and play styles. He’s is most likely not available but just a thought.

Secondly, I think Nylander has to go. He is an amazing offensive talent but I don’t think this excuses his lack of effort in the neutral and defensive zones. I would look to acquire a player that is pass first and stylistically similar to Kailer Yamamoto. Hard working player that knows his job is to win puck battles and set up Tavares.

In terms of goaltending, I think Dubas takes a serious look at Linus Ullmark. He puts up better numbers than Freddy and he plays on the Sabres. His injury trouble worries me but hopefully he can stay healthy. I think he would be a good starter behind the Leafs D.

I respect that you have these opinions about the team, and who knows if you're right or wrong? But I disagree. We don't need any "shakeups". We're a damn good team this year and should be competing for a cup.

We're in 1st place. We got offence to spare, we're better defensively, and while our goaltending has been hot & cold, I think it'll be very good come playoff time. We're not perfect but we're ready to go.

 

[MarMarSab3]

Depending on what happens in the playoffs.

A goalie is a must, Dreidger, Ullmark, Hill

If Reilly continues to digress perhaps time to move on from him.

We need to see what we have in a lot of these prospects we have, Sandin and Liljegren need to be part of the top 7 full time next year.

Grit, we need some sandpaper throughout of our lineup

 

[EK392000]

P.s. the leafs are about to go wire to wire 1st place.

As I’ve said before, I don’t think this team is garbage or anything. I’ve looked at the standings. I know this team is capable of regular season success. The thing that concerns me isn’t the fact that they lose some games, it’s how they lose those games. Sometimes they get out worked, some times they’ll make a mistake and just hang their heads for the remainder of the game.

It all depends on how these playoffs go. If it goes well, that’s great. I’ll be the happiest person in the world. If it doesn’t, it will be frustrating to see the same core head into next season. Unless Keefe radically changes the culture in the room and those changes are evident on the ice, I don’t see this team being able to get over the hump.

I suggested trading Nylander and Reilly not because they’re not good players, but because I think when a player has as much talent as them and the game usually comes so easy for them, playoff hockey won’t work in their favour. Playoff hockey is a different breed and we all know that. It’s far more physical, more garbage goals are scored and puck battles are incredibly important. A player with Nylander’s talent may not win those puck battles down low or be willing to block or shot etc etc. I think a trade that can bring a less talented but a harder working, grittier kind of player would be beneficial come playoff time.

Maybe Foligno is the answer and I’m just wrong. Who knows?

 

[Pyrophorus]

Depending on what happens in the playoffs.

A goalie is a must, Dreidger, Ullmark, Hill

If Reilly continues to digress perhaps time to move on from him.

We need to see what we have in a lot of these prospects we have, Sandin and Liljegren need to be part of the top 7 full time next year.

Grit, we need some sandpaper throughout of our lineup

Next off season we should pursue Ullmark and Grubauer, hopefully get one of them.

 

[Pyrophorus]

A player with Nylander’s talent may not win those puck battles down low or be willing to block or shot etc etc. I think a trade that can bring a less talented but a harder working, grittier kind of player would be beneficial come playoff time.

He does win puck battles and great at takeaways.

A question is, how far can you go, without these widescale changes.

 

[zeke]

The thing that concerns me isn’t the fact that they lose some games, it’s how they lose those games. Sometimes they get out worked, some times they’ll make a mistake and just hang their heads for the remainder of the game.

They have yet to lose a game by more than 3 goals.

They've lost by 3 goals only 4 times this year - and 2 of those 4 needed an empty net goal to push the lead to 3.

 

[EK392000]

He does win puck battles and great at takeaways.

A question is, how far can you go, without these widescale changes.

I said Nylander may not win those, not that he doesn’t ever win them.

 

[EK392000]

They have yet to lose a game by more than 3 goals.

They've lost by 3 goals only 4 times this year - and 2 of those 4 needed an empty net goal to push the lead to 3.

Again, I’m not saying this team is trash. This team is good and your stat on how they’ve never been blown proves that kind of. All I’m saying is that the way that they lose is what concerns me. Some times they go down without putting up as much of a fight as they’re capable of. I don’t think that mentality and lack of mental fortitude would bode well in the playoffs.