Proposal: Leafs need a few changes

[Captain14]

Yes - if they lose in either of the first two round of the playoffs
No - if advance to the Cup semi finals or further

I answered YES in the poll, because based on the 2nd half of the season I don't see this team being able to beat anyone in a seven game series. Writing that makes me sad.

I agree 100%. We have the type of roster that will likely make the playoffs every year, but nowhere near the roster to grind out wins against the heavier, finish your checks, neutral zone trapping teams.

In my opinion, one of the core and Reilly have to be moved, if anything, to allow the rest of the core to remain intact, to add a few of the “right” pieces and restocking our draft positions.
I’ve seen enough of this team over the years to know it will take more than Foligno and Nash to change our culture.
We are not a difficult team to play against and that has to change before we can be thought of as a true contender.

 

[wingman75]

We haven't seen this team with Foligno, Nash and Hutton yet, so there's still hope. But it will be quite sad to give up as much assets as we have and not even make it out of the first round. The second round will likely be against the Jets, so as long as we don't get embarrassed in that series, it's still okay?

Yes, agreed. Lets see if the new bodies have a positive effect. That is why I say, there is time to change the path here without a doubt.

 

[Ashdown2]

yes reilly has to go ..
it would be insane to trade nylander unless your getting top tier talent in return that is also underpaid and under 25 yrs old
we already know goaltending will completly change for next season ... this is not even a discussion topic.

 

[wingman75]

I agree 100%. We have the type of roster that will likely make the playoffs every year, but nowhere near the roster to grind out wins against the heavier, finish your checks, neutral zone trapping teams.

In my opinion, one of the core and Reilly have to be moved, if anything, to allow the rest of the core to remain intact, to add a few of the “right” pieces and restocking our draft positions.
I’ve seen enough of this team over the years to know it will take more than Foligno and Nash to change our culture.
We are not a difficult team to play against and that has to change before we can be thought of as a true contender.

But we have shown this ability from time to time... it is a hard (intensive) way to play, and its not realistic to expect a team to play that way all season. But they go so far the other way sometimes it becomes very concerning. I worry that they feel like they have done it and feel they can flick the switch at any time... that is a loser plan if there ever was one.

Core pieces moving I feel would be Marner (tough choice and he will be awesome wherever he goes) and Rielly. This would enable the roster to be filled with more complete players up front and we'd be on the search for a replacement on the back end.

 

[Gabriel426]

Team in a struggle? Suggestion: trade Nylander
Rinse and repeat.
Willy's been one of our best players during this stretch. The issues are goaltending and our players getting over that mental hurdle.
No team survives with bad goaltending. None.

Honestly, I am very interested to see who will be the need to trade him to make the team better after Willie gets traded.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Talk is cheap. We are going to find out what these guys are made up once they ice a full lineup in the playoffs. I like what Dubas did at the TDL, but if Dubas' boys make another quick exit, it might be time to hand the reigns over to another trio.

It’s getting to that point yeah. I think they can take it to the final if they delete Thornton,Simmons and Engvall out and add some crisper players with energy. Nash and Foligno are two. I’d replace Thornton and Engvall right away with them two. If keefe takes Robertson out and Keeps any of them 3 over him I’ll turn on him quicker than i could blink. I don’t even like Simmonds anymore actually. All talk too.

 

[egd27]

We don't need a shakeup, we just need consistent above average goaltending. Plain and simple.

Exactly, we to go back to the time when Andersen covered up most of the flaws in our "system"

 

[Wafflewhipper]

15 of 32 voters think this team is best thing since sliced bread. Funny thing is that i was picking up that vibe before this thread. This team is still a soft turnover machine. Big talk Simmonds has done what? Etc etc. The going gets tougher down the stretch and issues arise. Same old story. Tough minded teams adapt through the grind. These guys lose

 

[Darch]

Teams is still first in the division, while not playing their best hockey. The PP is starting to show signs of recovery. I don't see any reason to panic.

 

[EK392000]

It’s getting to that point yeah. I think they can take it to the final if they delete Thornton,Simmons and Engvall out and add some crisper players with energy. Nash and Foligno are two. I’d replace Thornton and Engvall right away with them two. If keefe takes Robertson out and Keeps any of them 3 over him I’ll turn on him quicker than i could blink. I don’t even like Simmonds anymore actually. All talk too.

I think this whole skill mentality got to Simmonds head or something. He sees the way the other guys play and tries to mimic it and it's not going too well. He started off the year playing as Wayne Simmonds. He was fighting, hitting, being a pest. That was the role we brought him in to play and the whole team was clicking. The injury derailed that and he comes back infected with some kind of dangle disease, where he tries to dangle his way to the net. It never works. I just want the Wayne Train back. I think the Leafs would be better if he made a return.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I think this whole skill mentality got to Simmonds head or something. He says the way the other guys play and tries to mimic it and it's not going too well. He started off the year playing as Wayne Simmonds. He was fighting, hitting, being a pest. That was the role we brought him in to play and the whole team was clicking. The injury derailed that and he comes back infected with some kind of dangle disease, where he tries to dangle his way to the net. It never works. I just want the Wayne Train back. I think the Leafs would be better if he made a return.

Its true haha, wtf right

 

[Ciao]

The Leafs have already had quite a bit of turnover among the coaches and players between this year and last. I think what they need more than anything is a more extended time to work together as a team with the group they already have. If any changes are to be made, they should be incremental and not a shake-up.

Here are some coaches and players that were with the Leafs at some time this year or last, and that are no longer with them now:
Mike Babcock
Andrew Brewer
Paul McFarland
Tyson Barrie
Kasperi Kapanen
Andreas Johnsson
Fred Gauthier
Dmytro Timashov
Cody Ceci
Trevor Moore
Nick Shore
Ygor Korshkov
Mason Marchment
Pontus Aberg
Kasimir Kaskisuo
Kevin Gravel
Denis Malgin
Travis Boyd
Jimmy Vesey
Mikko Lehtonen
Alexander Barabanov

Here are some other players that are new to the Leafs this year and are with them now:
Manny Malhotra
Paul MacLean
T.J. Brodie
Joe Thornton
Wayne Simmonds
Alex Galchenyuk
Zach Bogosian
Scott Sabourin
Joey Anderson
David Rittich
Nick Foligno
Riley Nash

I think there's been enough turnover that a shake-up is not really what's needed. I would rather see the coaching staff continue to work with the players they already have and try to develop them into a cohesive team where each player understands and executes his own role and purpose in the team's overall game plan.

I don't think you get there by constantly changing the pieces.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Teams is still first in the division, while not playing their best hockey. The PP is starting to show signs of recovery. I don't see any reason to panic.

Yeah, i should have given the goaltending excuse right after Campbell won 11 in a row too but it slipped my mind.

 

[Racer88]

I agree with the sentiment, not the trade proposal.

People seem to think Nylander is always included in trade proposals because he is the scapegoat and deserves to go. The people that include Nylander for this reason are overreacting and emotional. On the other hand, there are people that realize Nylander is young, good top-6 winger that has value and is on a movable contract. If you want quality pieces, you have to give quality pieces.

I think at this point it would be a mistake to trade Nylander. The player that really needs to go is Tavares. He eats up way to much cap space but with his no trade I think it would be impossible so that only leaves Marner as trade options

 

[EK392000]

I don't think you get there by constantly changing the pieces.

I agree. If it's possible to make the team work as is, it should be done. If you can develop mental fortitude in these players by disciplining them or maybe Keefe reimagines his coaching style to be harder on players, it could do us some good.

If that is not possible, though, what's the best course of action?

 

[Racer88]

It’s getting to that point yeah. I think they can take it to the final if they delete Thornton,Simmons and Engvall out and add some crisper players with energy. Nash and Foligno are two. I’d replace Thornton and Engvall right away with them two. If keefe takes Robertson out and Keeps any of them 3 over him I’ll turn on him quicker than i could blink. I don’t even like Simmonds anymore actually. All talk too.

Take this to the bank....Dubas will never let Keefe take Thornton out of the line up

 

[EK392000]

I think at this point it would be a mistake to trade Nylander. The player that really needs to go is Tavares. He eats up way to much cap space but with his no trade I think it would be impossible so that only leaves Marner as trade options

I agree. Tavares at 11M would be my first choice to move if it were possible. Marner could elevate basically anyone you throw on his line, so he could turn someone far cheaper into a 30 goal scorer. If Marner plays on that second line, you could keep Nylander and Matthews together.

This might be a hot take but I think the Leafs would have been better had they not signed Tavares. I liked Marner with Kadri.

 

[Bloomberg]

I agree. Tavares at 11M would be my first choice to move if it were possible. Marner could elevate basically anyone you throw on his line, so he could turn someone far cheaper into a 30 goal scorer. If Marner plays on that second line, you could keep Nylander and Matthews together.

This might be a hot take but I think the Leafs would have been better had they not signed Tavares. I liked Marner with Kadri.

I doubt Tavares will be traded. Not many teams can take his cap hit and I think he's settled in Toronto and doesn't want to move to another team. I don't think signing Tavares was a mistake. It gave us great center depth, Matthews, Tavares, Kadri. The mistake was the Kadri trade. Imagine if Kerfoot was actually a suitable replacement for Kadri

 

[EK392000]

I doubt Tavares will be traded. Not many teams can take his cap hit and I think he's settled in Toronto and doesn't want to move to another team. I don't think signing Tavares was a mistake. It gave us great center depth, Matthews, Tavares, Kadri. The mistake was the Kadri trade. Imagine if Kerfoot was actually a suitable replacement for Kadri

It did give us great C depth and Tavares is a better player than Kadri in almost every conceivable way, but I think Kadri is a good 2C in his own respect and makes less than half of what Tavares makes. Kadri would not have scored 47 like Tavares did, but I think he could have put up somewhere near 35 playing with Marner. That's a great number for a 2C. I think we could have easily used the cap space to acquire a good 3C and a top pairing D man, assuming we move Kapanen and Johnsson in this scenario as well.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Take this to the bank....Dubas will never let Keefe take Thornton out of the line up

Fine if he plays him 5-6 minutes a game on the third then

 

[Stephen]

I agree. Tavares at 11M would be my first choice to move if it were possible. Marner could elevate basically anyone you throw on his line, so he could turn someone far cheaper into a 30 goal scorer. If Marner plays on that second line, you could keep Nylander and Matthews together.

This might be a hot take but I think the Leafs would have been better had they not signed Tavares. I liked Marner with Kadri.

I had a lot of concerns with Tavares when he was struggling but his resurgence gives me a lot of hope that he can fight through that and we weren’t seeing permanent and premature decline.

Marner’s having some issues lately, I think the playoff run will have some say in his long term future as a Leaf.

 

[Bloomberg]

It did give us great C depth and Tavares is a better player than Kadri in almost every conceivable way, but I think Kadri is a good 2C in his own respect and makes less than half of what Tavares makes. Kadri would not have scored 47 like Tavares did, but I think he could have put up somewhere near 35 playing with Marner. That's a great number for a 2C. I think we could have easily used the cap space to acquire a good 3C and a top pairing D man, assuming we move Kapanen and Johnsson in this scenario as well.

Yeah, but Tavares was a free asset, except for the 11M cap hit. After we signed Tavares, we could've acquired a top pairing D man by trading one of Kadri or the big 3. In the scenario, where Tavares isn't signed, you will be trying to sign a top pairing D man in free agency, which is quite difficult. In the season that Tavares signed for us, Nylander was holding out, I would've traded Nylander for a D

 

[Wafflewhipper]

The PK is almost last in the league at 28th. The powerplay was dried up and is now trending as mediocre mid pak range. 5 game losing streak where we only play our own division. Goaltending of Rittich is all losses sine acquired and the better numbers of Hutchinson sits. Thornton plays the PP. Engvall plays period. Matthews is not the defensive center heading for 2 months now. One dimensional again
They better not suck the rest of the way and lose in the first round or Leaf Nation will rip them all a new one and turn away from them in droves again

 

[Captain Crunch]

Why? We're 5 points out of first place and still leading our division after a cold streak. We've got nothing to worry about yet, this is just a hot take.
These playoffs are going to be the most important playoffs in a long time because we don't have to go through Tampa or Boston to get to the conference finals.

But this team is like a roller coaster with its ups and downs. Which team will show up in the playoffs, the one that looked like a serious Cup contender at times, or the one that would struggle to even beat Detroit?

 

[Ciao]

I agree. If it's possible to make the team work as is, it should be done. If you can develop mental fortitude in these players by disciplining them or maybe Keefe reimagines his coaching style to be harder on players, it could do us some good.

If that is not possible, though, what's the best course of action?

I don't see any reason that it's not possible to work with this basic group of players -- with the minor roster changes that one would always expect from one year to the next.

However, if in future it should become apparent that's not possible, then the Leafs would just have to evaluate the reasons for that at that time. It's not possible to pre-judge the causes of that hypothetical situation.

In the words of the late, great Yogi Berra, we would just have to "jump off that bridge when we get to it!"