Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose to Canucks 3-0

[PromisedLand]

Tanev's quote at least acknowledges the issue. If you don't think there is an issue you will never work to fix it. Kudos to Tanev.




And Berube is also spot on. Time to wake the F up. You put on 60 mins of "effort" every alternate day while making millions. If you can't motivate yourself for that after years of playoff failures then you never will. There is no such thing as "switch" getting turned on in the playoffs. It needs to become your 2nd nature, it needs to be your habit like breathing oxygen. You do it without even knowing you are doing it. Time to be professionals here. Coddling time is long over!!!

 

[Gabriel426]

It seems Tanev agreed the effort was there.


Pretty similar to Marners full quote.

That’s really not similar at all.

Remember what Keefe said after they loss big to the Canes a few yrs ago, did you tried to defend him back then? Bc Keefe said, despite the loss, we played well and can build on it….

 

[ACC1224]

That’s really not similar at all.

Remember what Keefe said after they loss big to the Canes a few yrs ago, did you tried to defend him back then? Bc Keefe said, despite the loss, we played well and can build on it….

I don’t recall.

Not trying to defend anyone, just keeping it real.
Saying they ‘worked hard’ and saying ‘the effort is there’ is pretty much the same thing.

 

[Gabriel426]

MLSE looks at the Edmonton Oilers on one hand, their superstar core, the team success and the $280 million revenue in their run to the finals, and a the Ottawa Senators with their rebuilt high pick young core, never making the playoffs... and like to believe they are superficially closer to the former.

The stability we have with Matthews and Marner in the regular season can be stale and end up in a loser place in the spring... but for management it's still smooth sailing for most of the year before you hit the iceberg. And a breakthrough can still happen.

If any MGT looks at AM and MM as McD and Drai, then they probably did think the Leafs played well last night as described by MM.

I don’t recall.

Not trying to defend anyone, just keeping it real.

We all know when it comes to presser, MM is really bad at it. What scares me is that MM and even the core might believe that’s the case. Which is unacceptable for a team that wants to win the Cup.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I think there is a couple of million more they would have spent on the bottom 6 if they had it but that gets you maybe one more useful guy than what they have. $41 M on four guys is a real thing but its more a general tax on the choices they can make and choices like Kampf suggest they might waste any spare change they had.

Both you and Francis are right.

You're right that the core guys cost too much and that restricts money available to the rest of the roster. He's right that we haven't always made good choices with the available money we do have/had.

 

[Stephen]

If any MGT looks at AM and MM as McD and Drai, then they probably did think the Leafs played well last night as described by MM.


We all know when it comes to presser, MM is really bad at it. What scares me is that MM and even the core might believe that’s the case. Which is unacceptable for a team that wants to win the Cup.

One good thing about our stars going to the 4 Nations is they might get a sense of how other superstars do it around the league.

 

[Gabriel426]

One good thing about our stars going to the 4 Nations is they might get a sense of how other superstars do it around the league.

4 Nations is too short a tournament for our stars to learn anything. And not like they don’t train with the best players in the summer.

 

[PromisedLand]

Both you and Francis are right.

You're right that the core guys cost too much and that restricts money available to the rest of the roster. He's right that we haven't always made good choices with the available money we do have/had.

the issue is you are competing against other teams with what little money you do have. Once you've committed significant chunk of your cap in four forwards; the options to bolster the roster with "quality" are not there. You either luck out like in the case of Benoit or you MUST have a very strong draft and develop system that compensates for the lack of cap space already committed to handful of players


the damage done by kyle dubas is not gonna be undone in a jiffy. its gonna take time.

 

[Stephen]

the issue is you are competing against other teams with what little money you do have. Once you've committed significant chunk of your cap in four forwards; the options to bolster the roster with "quality" are not there. You either luck out like in the case of Benoit or you MUST have a very strong draft and develop system that compensates for the lack of cap space already committed to handful of players


the damage done by kyle dubas is not gonna be undone in a jiffy. its gonna take time.

Traditionally, our playoff problems go all the way to the very top. Do we ever get full value from Auston Matthews in a seven game series where he shoots out the lights a la Kucherov, Mackinnon, McDavid, Makar, Rantanen, Draisaitl, running through a series like it's the regular season? Same question about Marner. Same question about Nylander.

 

[PromisedLand]

Traditionally, our playoff problems go all the way to the very top. Do we ever get full value from Auston Matthews in a seven game series where he shoots out the lights a la Kucherov, Mackinnon, McDavid, Makar, Rantanen, Draisaitl, running through a series like it's the regular season? Same question about Marner. Same question about Nylander.

Our "top" players hardly are ever top players after the dust settles. They get out competed against oppositions' top players

but here is the rub...

even when our top players play a stalemate against opposition top lines in given game(s) or a series; its the opposition depth that comes through and we don't have that depth.

Remember Nick Paul? who the F was that guy no-one even heard of him before he got famous scoring against the Leafs

or even last year against he Bruins? Sure Matthews and Willy were injured but look at the scoring. Marner had 3 points in 7 games as an example.

The issue is we have too much cap committed to handful of players, and when they fail or even stalemate the opposition top line we do not have quality depth to outcompete/outscore oppositions' depth

Also that our special teams sucks balls especially in the playoffs every freakin year is another nail in the mediocrity coffin

 

[Stephen]

Our "top" players hardly are ever top players after the dust settles. They get out competed against oppositions' top players

but here is the rub...

even when our top players play a stalemate against opposition top lines in given game(s) or a series; its the opposition depth that comes through and we don't have that depth.

Remember Nick Paul? who the F was that guy no-one even heard of him before he got famous scoring against the Leafs

or even last year against he Bruins? Sure Matthews and Willy were injured but look at the scoring. Marner had 3 points in 7 games as an example.

The issue is we have too much cap committed to handful of players, and when they fail or even stalemate the opposition top line we do not have quality depth to outcompete/outscore oppositions' depth

Also that our special teams sucks balls especially in the playoffs every freakin year is another nail in the mediocrity coffin

Our guys aren't supposed to stalemate, the design is to have our top heavy players break through. And they can't muster that level of domination and impact for more than 1-2 games out of 7 as individuals.

 

[PromisedLand]

Our guys aren't supposed to stalemate, the design is to have our top heavy players break through. And they can't muster that level of domination and impact for more than 1-2 games out of 7 as individuals.

agreed. thats the issue. they make too much money and should be dominant, and we don't have cap space left since they took all; to bolster the roster with quality depth to compensate for their non-dominant plays

 

[Stephen]

agreed. thats the issue. they make too much money and should be dominant, and we don't have cap space left since they took all; to bolster the roster with quality depth to compensate for their non-dominant plays

I don't think we have a cap space issue. We get by year to year on passable goaltending for pennies on the dollar alone and Dubas and Treliving have both done okay jobs finding value at the league minimum range throughout the roster.

The crux of the problem is Matthews is not Mackinnon or Draisaitl. Marner is whatever, I don't care to open up that can of worms, and they are not good enough.

The cap would have to go up another $24 million to find support guys who can do Matthews job, to do Marner's job when the decide to mail it in or are crapping the bed.

 

[ULF_55]

Our "top" players hardly are ever top players after the dust settles. They get out competed against oppositions' top players

but here is the rub...

even when our top players play a stalemate against opposition top lines in given game(s) or a series; its the opposition depth that comes through and we don't have that depth.

Remember Nick Paul? who the F was that guy no-one even heard of him before he got famous scoring against the Leafs

or even last year against he Bruins? Sure Matthews and Willy were injured but look at the scoring. Marner had 3 points in 7 games as an example.

The issue is we have too much cap committed to handful of players, and when they fail or even stalemate the opposition top line we do not have quality depth to outcompete/outscore oppositions' depth

Also that our special teams sucks balls especially in the playoffs every freakin year is another nail in the mediocrity coffin

Re: Playoffs
No Kucherov, MacKinnon, Draisaitl, McDavid, Rantanen, ... on the team.

It isn't having 3 Double digits (Nylander wasn't in that group in the playoffs), it is having the wrong ones.

Matthews performs at the Point, Aho, Zibanejad, JT Miller level.

 

[Azail]

I don't think we have a cap space issue. We get by year to year on passable goaltending for pennies on the dollar alone and Dubas and Treliving have both done okay jobs finding value at the league minimum range throughout the roster.

The crux of the problem is Matthews is not Mackinnon or Draisaitl. Marner is whatever, I don't care to open up that can of worms, and they are not good enough.

The cap would have to go up another $24 million to find support guys who can do Matthews job, to do Marner's job when the decide to mail it in or are crapping the bed.

I hate when other people bring up the fact that there isn't enough depth on this team, while overlooking the core 4. Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and to a lesser extent JT, SHOULD have been able to carry this team on a run like every other superstar in the game does. The problem is, our superstars just aren't good enough. It's been 9 years of this core, sadly it just might be who they are.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

the issue is you are competing against other teams with what little money you do have. Once you've committed significant chunk of your cap in four forwards; the options to bolster the roster with "quality" are not there. You either luck out like in the case of Benoit or you MUST have a very strong draft and develop system that compensates for the lack of cap space already committed to handful of players


the damage done by kyle dubas is not gonna be undone in a jiffy. its gonna take time.

BUT BUT BUT HE PASSED ALL THE TESTS

 

[Stephen]

I hate when other people bring up the fact that there isn't enough depth on this team, while overlooking the core 4. Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and to a lesser extent JT, SHOULD have been able to carry this team on a run like every other superstar in the game does. The problem is, our superstars just aren't good enough. It's been 9 years of this core, sadly it just might be who they are.

Yep. The way this shit is designed, Matthews and Marner should be going 2G 1A , 1G 2A and buzz sawing teams in the playoffs and turning whomever they play with into a credible garbage goal man, Nylander contributing a la Phil Kessel in Pittsburgh and Tavares holding down like a 200 foot everything center. If you're still losing playoff games 6-5 every night, okay it's a roster construction issue.

If you're losing elimination games 2-1 with Samsonov in net, it's a Matthews problem. It's a Marner problem. It's a Nylander problem.

 

[Azail]

Yep. The way this shit is designed, Matthews and Marner should be going 2G 1A , 1G 2A and buzz sawing teams in the playoffs and turning whomever they play with into a credible garbage goal man, Nylander contributing a la Phil Kessel in Pittsburgh and Tavares holding down like a 200 foot everything center. If you're still losing playoff games 6-5 every night, okay it's a roster construction issue.

If you're losing elimination games 2-1 with Samsonov in net, it's a Matthews problem. It's a Marner problem. It's a Nylander problem.

Watching McDrai refuse to lose and carry their teams constantly in the playoffs when Marner and Matthews play below their regular season production is super disheartening.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Who would have guessed that the Leafs would get shut out at home by a team that played last night and travelled to Toronto this morning? Oh yeah, literally everyone.

The more things “change”, the more they stay the “same”.

 

[Nineteen67]

I don't think we have a cap space issue. We get by year to year on passable goaltending for pennies on the dollar alone and Dubas and Treliving have both done okay jobs finding value at the league minimum range throughout the roster.

The crux of the problem is Matthews is not Mackinnon or Draisaitl. Marner is whatever, I don't care to open up that can of worms, and they are not good enough.

The cap would have to go up another $24 million to find support guys who can do Matthews job, to do Marner's job when the decide to mail it in or are crapping the bed.

I don’t think any of the Leafs stars are Pat Mahomes level, but it would be wonderful if one of them was as good as Josh Allen. We’d be ecstatic

 

[Captain Crunch]

Has any team fired the pp coach during the season ?

And you think bringing in someone else can make this core start scoring more often on the PP? How many different coaches have they brought in to fix this PP? Maybe it’s time to change the players around. Maybe have two PP units and split the time evenly until one of the units show they deserve more time. Can’t see this happening though.

 

[Antropovsky]

Berube once again in this post-game said players need to go to the net more. He's been saying it routinely throughout the year in his post games. Just as Keefe was saying the some thing for years.

Trotz has said it, Ovechkin has said it, Broudreau has said it, Keefe has said it, Berube has said it about this cores play and numerous others.

Weve changed the players surrounding the core multiple times, the GM, the Coach and the Captain and added a CEO.. we are still seeing the same problems each year.

This better be the year..If this roster doesnt make it past 2 rounds, then big changes to the core better be made. And no Tavares isnt a big change. He's the one leaf who goes to the net the most.

 

[Captain Crunch]

It’s the players. How many coaches do we have to go through before the finger pointing is squarely on the four 10+ million dollar men and sometimes Rielly? They suck, and it’s the same issues every f***ing season and postseason. f*** me I wish they’d well and truly split up the cOrE fOuR across two units and leave it like that for a long stretch, hell the rest of this season. It can’t be any worse than the shit we’ve been watching.

I really got sucked in when they hired Berube, and when they had the big press conference when they hired Pelley, and it seemed like Tre would be given more authority while Shanahan would be having less. I thought, awesome, now the core will finally be held accountable for their play, and yet here we are. So frustrating!

 

[Captain Crunch]

No the leafs played to vasi’s weakness. That year Vasi was one of the worst goalies at making saves when he was screened and against shots from the point. They applied that strategy and beat him. He wasn’t hurt.

So if the goalie has a weakness, then the Leafs can win a round. So that means that for the other 7 years the other goalies didn’t have a weakness?

 

[francis246]

So if the goalie has a weakness, then the Leafs can win a round. So that means that for the other 7 years the other goalies didn’t have a weakness?

No it means the leafs coaching staff didn’t do a good enough job exploiting the weaknesses of the teams they were facing. It’s not rocket science. That’s what coaching is.