Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose. Thornton on the first PP unit. Weak. Nice work keefe. Do better.

[Ziggdiezan]

Did Simmonds do anything last night? He didnt even add grit or throw any hits.

The only thing I remember is him barely sidestepping a would be massive hit from Anderson

 

[Gallagbi]

Correct. They are a weaker team. No reason to believe we can't win 4 of the next 6. Remember they still need 3 more wins to advance. Let them celebrate this one. They played a good game. We will be celebrating in a week or so. I'm pretty confident the team doesn't have the same poopy daiper attitude as some people on here. That room doesn't think about 17 years of not winning a playoff round, I can f***ing guarantee that. They know they are better, and they will prove it.

Hoping you're right, but I'm sure our key players have the past 4 playoff failures in their head and many are probably thinking back to last year's CLB series.

Getting ahead if absolutely crucial for us and we're down 1. What we saw from MTL in game 1 can't happen as they go down in a game and down in the series.

 

[ryno23]

I know its the playoffs and dump and chase is generally the game plan. We're not built for that outside of one line, we need to get back to our regular season plan of attack, puck possesion and speed, its the only way we'll win.

can't do that cause MTL plays the trap and clogs up the NZ so you have to dump and chase. This should have been addressed during the year to play that style and work on it. Puck possession hockey works in the regular season but when things get tight in the playoffs it doesn't work. You need to battle the other guys and win puck battles. This team is not built that way.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

I expect many are like myself and get the pit in their stomach before these games because it's almost like a book you've read before or a movie you've watched about to be started up again.

What I am interested in seeing is how they bounce back. They've been consistent with that all year, but I can't say I'm optimistic. If they don't rebound, we simply can't see this core again.

I’m hoping they show the same heart that the 2002 Leafs showed when Sundin was out and go on a deep run. I have significant doubts about that given the mental fragility of this group but we’ll see.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

I expect many are like myself and get the pit in their stomach before these games because it's almost like a book you've read before or a movie you've watched about to be started up again.

What I am interested in seeing is how they bounce back. They've been consistent with that all year, but I can't say I'm optimistic. If they don't rebound, we simply can't see this core again.

Agreed this is a make or break series/year in general. If they get beaten by the Habs the core will be retooled. Likely means Nylander is traded i would think as Marner/Matthews/JT are going nowhere.

 

[Gallagbi]

I’m hoping they show the same heart that the 2002 Leafs showed when Sundin was out and go on a deep run. I have significant doubts about that given the mental fragility of this group but we’ll see.

There isn't an excuse to back down. All the pieces people said we needed last year and even the year prior are here. Those physical players who've been through this before.

 

[Gallagbi]

Agreed this is a make or break series/year in general. If they get beaten by the Habs the core will be retooled. Likely means Nylander is traded i would think as Marner/Matthews/JT are going nowhere.

A lot can change IMO especially depending on how the series turns out.

Nylander leads our team in goals and second in points for Covid playoffs. Tavares was our best player last year along with Matthews with an uncertain future right now (he could very well sit out for a prolonged period).

Marner's been extremely productive in the regular season, but he's left a lot to be desired in our small playoff sample. With that said, our moves would be playoff based, so..

 

[Wiseguys]

At the end of the day though, you have to put it in perspective.

People are actually upset that two players earning 750k and 1.5M aren't performing?

That's par for the course for players like that.

That's why they're getting paid that sort of money in the first place.

Well they should put in players who are better at roughly the same amount. I'm not confident that the Leafs will go far in these playoffs with those 2 players.

But only 16 more wins for the cup!

 

[Gallagbi]

can't do that cause MTL plays the trap and clogs up the NZ so you have to dump and chase. This should have been addressed during the year to play that style and work on it. Puck possession hockey works in the regular season but when things get tight in the playoffs it doesn't work. You need to battle the other guys and win puck battles. This team is not built that way.

Montreal played the same way all season and we carried the play.

We didn't execute as well last night and we're more willing to create battles and 50/50 pucks. Montreal will trap, so we need to attack as a group and find the soft areas. Once in their zone, move our feet and we'll be fine instead of imitating this style they think they're missing

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Agreed this is a make or break series/year in general. If they get beaten by the Habs the core will be retooled. Likely means Nylander is traded i would think as Marner/Matthews/JT are going nowhere.

I know it’s harder to facilitate but wouldn’t moving marner be more ideal as far as team building goes. You can basically turn marner into 3 or 4 second/third line players and build much stronger depth.

 

[Bomber0104]

Well they should put in players who are better at roughly the same amount. I'm not confident that the Leafs will go far in these playoffs with those 2 players.

But only 16 more wins for the cup!

If only it was that easy.

All 31 teams are attempting to the same thing!

 

[Woodman19]

I love how when we were a bottom of the league team everyone clamored for more skill and less toughness and now that we have a lot of skill we want to downgrade for more toughness.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I love how when we were a bottom of the league team everyone clamored for more skill and less toughness and now that we have a lot of skill we want to downgrade for more toughness.

I think you need a happy balance come playoff time... guys like hyman/anderson etc are built for the playoffs.... not as much skating room/areas to get open shots from, a lot more dirty goals than flashy goals.

Simmonds in his prime would be great, Simmonds now not so much

 

[Havoc]

Need to maintain having two duos. Matthews/Marner and Nylander / Hyman. All 4 at 20+ minutes.

This team is going no where if we give our depth guys like Kerfoot, Mik etc too much importance. These guys aren't better than the Habs players. Habs have like two second lines and two third lines. They are hard to beat when they're able to go depth versus depth because their depth is better. They stink when they have to face high end guys. Look how easily Nylander navigated the ice last night. Marner and Matthews should be better next game. They're not built to beat teams like the Leafs, Oilers and Jets unless Keefe wants to hand them the win by becoming Babcock.

A guy like Mik isn't even worthy of being called a poor mans Kapanen right now. No defensive IQ, no offensive IQ, no hands. His defensive IQ is basically using his legs to keep up with the puck and that's it. I really hope Keefe does the right thing.

 

[fahad203]

Did Simmonds do anything last night? He didnt even add grit or throw any hits.

He represented equality

It's a a bad thing to have a better PK?

Tifolloi had 28 goals, Andersen had 17 goals, its not like they are a bunch of slugs. If the Leafs make it to the final four do you want Nash coming in for the first time against Tampa or LV or another top end team?

So you don't play Nash and you bring in who Engvall? Who is not a finisher either, except for the recent heater, he's been invisible all year.

Nash is better than everyone who sat. Its not a hard choice TBH.

Engvall this year has the same amount of goals in 42 games as Nash does in last 3 years in 178 games. Not sure where you are getting that number from

Engvall can also set up plays. Ask Barabanov who was setup on 2 breakfways by engvall and he has made some passes to Mikaheyev many times

All of Engvalls points are 5 on 5. He has one less point than Mikaheyev who has played with Tavares and on PP

He's not going to get you goals but he can skate. Did you see Nash last night? he looked like he was 50. dude couldnt' do anything. He hasn't done anything last 3 years

Tofolli has 28 goals half of them came against Vancouver and Andersons' half of goal came against the leafs. These are not Drai and McDavid. These are scrapers who score goals. You don't need Nash to shut them down

We didn't have the legs last night. Smmonds, Joe and Nash can't skate. Let's get skaters against a team that can skate

 

[fahad203]

I think you need a happy balance come playoff time... guys like hyman/anderson etc are built for the playoffs.... not as much skating room/areas to get open shots from, a lot more dirty goals than flashy goals.

Simmonds in his prime would be great, Simmonds now not so much

Simmonds even in his prime was trash in playoffs. Last 15 playoff games he has no goals nad about 4 points
That's spanning in about last 8 years

 

[Syed Ammad rizvi]

He represented equality



Engvall this year has the same amount of goals in 42 games as Nash does in last 3 years in 178 games. Not sure where you are getting that number from

Engvall can also set up plays. Ask Barabanov who was setup on 2 breakfways by engvall and he has made some passes to Mikaheyev many times

All of Engvalls points are 5 on 5. He has one less point than Mikaheyev who has played with Tavares and on PP

He's not going to get you goals but he can skate. Did you see Nash last night? he looked like he was 50. dude couldnt' do anything. He hasn't done anything last 3 years

Tofolli has 28 goals half of them came against Vancouver and Andersons' half of goal came against the leafs. These are not Drai and McDavid. These are scrapers who score goals. You don't need Nash to shut them down

We didn't have the legs last night. Smmonds, Joe and Nash can't skate. Let's get skaters against a team that can skate

I agree 100%.. we need to replace Simmonds and Joe, they can't skate and create open ice at all for themselves or their teammates.. we are what we are and we should play to our strengths rather than play to our oppositions strength.... we have to adapt to a series as we will be facing different strategies from different teams in the playoffs.. in this series we need to bring brooks, Engval, Dermott and Glachenyuk back and Nash, Simmonds, sandin and Thornton need to sit. Then re-evaluate for the next series

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Simmonds even in his prime was trash in playoffs. Last 15 playoff games he has no goals nad about 4 points
That's spanning in about last 8 years

Ya but he brought physicality to the game... when a skilled guy isn’t scoring, often times they arnt bringing anything else to the table

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I know its the playoffs and dump and chase is generally the game plan. We're not built for that outside of one line, we need to get back to our regular season plan of attack, puck possesion and speed, its the only way we'll win.

It does not work in a 4 man back trap game .. you can't skate or pass through it .. we have to take advantage of their slow dmen using a solid dump in play

 

[123offtheglass]

Think most people underestimate the Habs; they’re better or more capable than they’re given credit for.

Playoff hockey is a big change along with the Tavares scare. Leafs can bounce back, they have the leadership & team to do it; little adversity can be good too.

 

[Beaumaris]

Decent game by the Leafs, bad outcome. They hit at least two posts that were basically 50/50s and had more quality scoring opportunities. It is concerning to me though since this is the exact same thing that happened in the Columbus series.

You do know That when you hit a post,you have missed the target.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Not a hope in hell that Byron scores that shorthanded goal if that was Dermott chasing him down.

Dermott doesn't play the PP though

 

[BertCorbeau]

So from 2018 onward, you can only think of two centres the Leafs could have acquired - that being Stastny and Derek Ryan?

Honestly, I think you're being deliberately close-minded to the idea that there are many other ways to spend $11 million in capspace in the NHL.

This all goes back to my initial post about diversifying risk.

Except the thing is that those were the centres available in 2018 .. And the contracts they signed in free agency would have seen them remain with the Leafs' through today. Coupled with the fact that they'd still have Kadri up the middle, and you're overestimating the amount flexibility they would have to add a centre.

 

[egd27]

At the end of the day though, you have to put it in perspective.

People are actually upset that two players earning 750k and 1.5M aren't performing?

That's par for the course for players like that.

That's why they're getting paid that sort of money in the first place.

ding ding ding.......we have a winner!

 

[Ziggdiezan]

A lot can change IMO especially depending on how the series turns out.

Nylander leads our team in goals and second in points for Covid playoffs. Tavares was our best player last year along with Matthews with an uncertain future right now (he could very well sit out for a prolonged period).

Marner's been extremely productive in the regular season, but he's left a lot to be desired in our small playoff sample. With that said, our moves would be playoff based, so..

A lot could change i just don't see them moving Marner over Nylander. He is one of the main guys in the leadership group. Always him giving the entire team high fives when they go on/off the ice. Plus he is a local kid, I just don't think he will ever be traded. Nylander as you said has played well and is paid much less, this should also help get a really good return if a shakeup is needed