Post-Game Talk: - Leafs lose 5-4 in OT | Lead series 2-1 | Page 23 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose 5-4 in OT | Lead series 2-1

But we were talking about absolute “superstars” here, or the ones paid like one? I left out secondary players on other teams as well. And the whole point I was trying to make was that one shouldn’t expect or judge a 14-ish mil player based on his PK or defensive skills when they’re paid to score….? Ofc it’s a plus if they can play defense, but…

Anywho, let’s just agree to disagree

Is he paid to score goals?

I thought he was paid to be the best player on the ice, whatever that may entail.

The guy has been lights out on the defensive end of the puck except for 1 game he was a -4 with 2 empty net goals, despite Woll allowing a few horrible goals against.
He has been on the #1 pk, which has been very very good.
He has been great on draws.
He has hit.
He has blocked shots.
He has 10 points in 9 games.

Sure he could have 2 more goals thus far, or more considering on the chances he's made for himself, and at that point he would be a stalwart defensive centre, AND vying for the lead in points.

If these are the base expectations from the fans, then they are idiots.
 
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I didn't read the entire Matthews vs Ovechkin debate. But in Ovechkin's first 8 playoff years he scored over 40 goals, Matthews has 25.

(80 games played for Ovi vs. 64 for Matthews). Ovi definitely with the edge but not as lopsided as it seems at face value.
 
'kay. He already has 401 goals at age 27 but he "won't even be in the same conversation" eh? You do realize Ovechkin never "won shit" until he was 32, right? And that he got all of the same criticisms because of it? Same with Steve Yzerman for what it's worth. Never count all-world players out until they're out.
It’s the injury history which makes it very questionable there’s no doubt that minus that Matthews has him beat but injury history is the variable
 
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It’s the injury history which makes it very questionable there’s no doubt that minus that Matthews has his beat but injury history is the variable

That's what makes Ovechkin the champ. Dude broke his leg this season and STILL scored 44 goals. No one can compete with that. I bet he plays 3 or 4 more seasons just to make sure no one ever touches his record (and good for him - he deserves it).
 
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When all is said and done Mathews won’t be in the same conversation as OV, Gretzky, Orr or others, he’s z good player, but a overpaid underperforming player eho hasn’t won shit…….
Maybe. Still has a chance to win a few cups but he will have to go insanely hot to be considered the best...

Lots of guys won cups before salary was a consideration
 
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Morbid post!
I apologize.

my grandma died 20 years ago... we just found out through our family tree that our family is allergic to bee stings... we dug her up 2 weeks ago and sure enough, it was just anaphylactic shock... she's fine, she's probably at the casino.

edit: I would like to apologize again for the double down on the morbidity.
 
I apologize.

my grandma died 20 years ago... we just found out through our family tree that our family is allergic to bee stings... we dug her up 2 weeks ago and sure enough, it was just anaphylactic shock... she's fine, she's probably at the casino.

edit: again, I would like to apologize again for the double down on the morbidity.
No need to apoligize.

Also. Lol.

Good stuff
 
Spezza deserved it, it had all the signs of premeditated retribution. Matthews was very lucky he was a first time offender and lady byng winner or he would have gotten much more. That was an absolutely vicious play. Kadri deserved it, and if I have taken the pulse of leafs nation correctly, we think of him as a guy who screwed us twice in the playoffs with bad suspensions, not a guy who got targeted by the league. Bunting was probably a bad one, it came at a time when there was a lot of talk about reverse hits but I think the tide has turned and it's turning into an acceptable play for player who's about to get hit himself. In retrospect it sucks but the timing of it had a lot more to do with it. If your point is that the leafs have had bad suspensions and missed suspensions against, sure that's true. But it's true for every team. But thinking the deck is stacked against you is just loser talk.

I certainly don't want referees just blowing the whistle as soon as they lose sight of the puck when we're jamming away at the opposition's net, do you? And that's not what they're supposed to do. They need to either know or have a very strong belief that it's underneath the goalie. I don't think there was any reason for the referee to blow the whistle at that moment, either from losing sight of the puck, or from calling a penalty on Carlo. If he did catch Carlo playing the puck with a broken stick, I don't think you blow the whistle at that very moment, I think your arm goes up and you blow it dead the next time Toronto takes possession, which of course did not happen.

And they miss high hits and elbows all the time, both ways. If they called it every single time the game would be nothing would power plays and nobody wants that. It's stupid but that's what the game has devolved to in the playoffs. It's nothing against Toronto.
Spezza: the appeal didnt think so but nice try. Spezza was a first time offender that cant be 6 games.

Matthews: there were multiple cross checks just as bad that didnt get nearly as much. the qualm leaf nation had was the media running to mom and dad right away and then gaslighting us on how the NHL got it right only to shut up all the other times about it. Matthews himself alluded to the lack of transparency in the process saying he felt like his bed was already made.
Hell Jonatan Bergen got a fine for a cross check that was even WORSE against the leafs this year, if like you said Matthews deserved what he got then why didn't Berggren, why did he only receive a fine for this?


Bunting: you're making excuses for DOPS people talking about stuff should not factor into decisions.

Kadri: did he deserve record breaking suspensions never before seen? All because Debrusk acted like he died and then came back? or what about the officials losing control and letting debrusk get away with kneeing? we're giving Kadri the gate for the whole playoffs but we can't give Okposo even a fine for this:



my point on the scrum was that it was a penalty against Carlo and should have been blown dead but for some reason it wasnt? Toronto had possession by default when the puck is played with the broken stick in fact florida never touches that puck they push the goalies glove into the net for the goal....also by default the referee is supposed to blow the whistle when they have lost sight of the puck.

There's pretty straightforward photos showing the referee watching Rodrigues launch himself into tavares but I guess he wasnt actually the game like his job dictates but rather had his hand up his ass and was too busy with that.

I'll concede to your point that the DoPs is fair with the leafs when you can address why Berggren got a fine but matthews got a suspension, why Meier only got one game for a retaliatory cross check to the head of a predator while matthews got two games? Why Kadri got the whole playoffs while Okposo didn't get a call (if I remember correctly playoffs is worth half of the regular season)
 
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Spezza: the appeal didnt think so but nice try. Spezza was a first time offender that cant be 6 games.

Matthews: there were multiple cross checks just as bad that didnt get nearly as much. the qualm leaf nation had was the media running to mom and dad right away and then gaslighting us on how the NHL got it right only to shut up all the other times about it. Matthews himself alluded to the lack of transparency in the process saying he felt like his bed was already made.
Hell Jonatan Bergen got a fine for a cross check that was even WORSE against the leafs this year, if like you said Matthews deserved what he got then why didn't Berggren, why did he only receive a fine for this?


Bunting: you're making excuses for DOPS people talking about stuff should not factor into decisions.

Kadri: did he deserve record breaking suspensions never before seen? All because Debrusk acted like he died and then came back? or what about the officials losing control and letting debrusk get away with kneeing? we're giving Kadri the gate for the whole playoffs but we can't give Okposo even a fine for this:



my point on the scrum was that it was a penalty against Carlo and should have been blown dead but for some reason it wasnt? Toronto had possession by default when the puck is played with the broken stick in fact florida never touches that puck they push the goalies glove into the net for the goal....also by default the referee is supposed to blow the whistle when they have lost sight of the puck.

There's pretty straightforward photos showing the referee watching Rodrigues launch himself into tavares but I guess he wasnt actually the game like his job dictates but rather had his hand up his ass and was too busy with that.

I'll concede to your point that the DoPs is fair with the leafs when you can address why Berggren got a fine but matthews got a suspension, why Meier only got one game for a retaliatory cross check to the head of a predator while matthews got two games? Why Kadri got the whole playoffs while Okposo didn't get a call (if I remember correctly playoffs is worth half of the regular season)

I’d love to hear this rebuttal myself I’m extremely interested in how this can be spun as anything other than an obvious bias against us
 
Is he paid to score goals?

I thought he was paid to be the best player on the ice, whatever that may entail.

The guy has been lights out on the defensive end of the puck except for 1 game he was a -4 with 2 empty net goals, despite Woll allowing a few horrible goals against.
He has been on the #1 pk, which has been very very good.
He has been great on draws.
He has hit.
He has blocked shots.
He has 10 points in 9 games.

Sure he could have 2 more goals thus far, or more considering on the chances he's made for himself, and at that point he would be a stalwart defensive centre, AND vying for the lead in points.

If these are the base expectations from the fans, then they are idiots.
Its och fine that you have your own opinion of what the second most paid player should be contributing with, but then to end it on a note that people who don’t agree with you are ”idiots” really takes away anything you’re saying.
 
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I'm not sure where you're going with that one. I was literally agreeing with seventieslord that we shouldn't be blaming Wes Macauley for the loss and that there's no reason to think there's some conspiracy against the Leafs.
He's not the reason we lost, but the Panthers roared to life in both the first and second periods due to his actions and inactions. The Cats looked dead in the first until Wes gave them that cross-checking PP on Tkachuk after staring right at Lundell cross-checking Marner, and the second goal was vintage Wes f***ing up. The play should have been dead the minute Carlo touched it with his broken stick; the only logical way that play ends with a goal is if you argue that Carlo touching the puck with his broken stick doesn't count as "touching", and if you argue that it bouncing off Woll's equipment in the crease also doesn't count as "touching", AND if you argue that Wes could see the puck the entire time despite not seeing Carlo play it with a broken stick and thus not blow the play dead. It's the exact kind of non-call the Leafs get way too frequently (have any doubt that if this was Bob they would have blown it dead fast?).

I also partially blame the NHL head office for ignoring their own rulebook here to give the Cats a freebie.
 
Its och fine that you have your own opinion of what the second most paid player should be contributing with, but then to end it on a note that people who don’t agree with you are ”idiots” really takes away anything you’re saying.

I know that English is my 3rd language, but that's not at all what I wrote.


Sure he could have 2 more goals thus far, or more considering on the chances he's made for himself, and at that point he would be a stalwart defensive centre, AND vying for the lead in points.

If these are the base expectations from the fans, then they are idiots.

That is what I wrote.

That the people whose base expectations is that Matthews be both a stalwart defensive player (as he's been thus far) AND vie for the lead in offensive production, those are the idiots.

The players who only have 1 role should be expected to do that 1 role well.
Matthews has been expected to do all of the grunt work and has produced just fine while doing so.

And yet he is bashed by idiotic people.
 
Is he paid to score goals?

I thought he was paid to be the best player on the ice, whatever that may entail.

The guy has been lights out on the defensive end of the puck except for 1 game he was a -4 with 2 empty net goals, despite Woll allowing a few horrible goals against.
He has been on the #1 pk, which has been very very good.
He has been great on draws.
He has hit.
He has blocked shots.
He has 10 points in 9 games.

Sure he could have 2 more goals thus far, or more considering on the chances he's made for himself, and at that point he would be a stalwart defensive centre, AND vying for the lead in points.

If these are the base expectations from the fans, then they are idiots.
You are delusional and bias

Nylander, Tavares, Rielly, and even Marner have all been better than Matthews let alone best on the ice.

Matthews is the highest paid player in the league yet he wouldnt even compare if MacK or McDavid were in these series lol
 
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Spezza: the appeal didnt think so but nice try. Spezza was a first time offender that cant be 6 games.

Matthews: there were multiple cross checks just as bad that didnt get nearly as much. the qualm leaf nation had was the media running to mom and dad right away and then gaslighting us on how the NHL got it right only to shut up all the other times about it. Matthews himself alluded to the lack of transparency in the process saying he felt like his bed was already made.
Hell Jonatan Bergen got a fine for a cross check that was even WORSE against the leafs this year, if like you said Matthews deserved what he got then why didn't Berggren, why did he only receive a fine for this?


Bunting: you're making excuses for DOPS people talking about stuff should not factor into decisions.

Kadri: did he deserve record breaking suspensions never before seen? All because Debrusk acted like he died and then came back? or what about the officials losing control and letting debrusk get away with kneeing? we're giving Kadri the gate for the whole playoffs but we can't give Okposo even a fine for this:



my point on the scrum was that it was a penalty against Carlo and should have been blown dead but for some reason it wasnt? Toronto had possession by default when the puck is played with the broken stick in fact florida never touches that puck they push the goalies glove into the net for the goal....also by default the referee is supposed to blow the whistle when they have lost sight of the puck.

There's pretty straightforward photos showing the referee watching Rodrigues launch himself into tavares but I guess he wasnt actually the game like his job dictates but rather had his hand up his ass and was too busy with that.

I'll concede to your point that the DoPs is fair with the leafs when you can address why Berggren got a fine but matthews got a suspension, why Meier only got one game for a retaliatory cross check to the head of a predator while matthews got two games? Why Kadri got the whole playoffs while Okposo didn't get a call (if I remember correctly playoffs is worth half of the regular season)

Have you read the Spezza appeal decision? The NHLPA contended that the knee was not retribution, but the decision doesn't agree or refute that. But what kind of Muppet wouldn't think Spezza wasn't taking revenge for the suspendable play that happened a minute and a half ago? Of course he was.

If you think I'm here to defend every (or any) decision by DOPS, you're sorely mistaken. They are often incompetent and everyone can see that many suspension decisions are nonsensical and incongruent with prior decisions.

Okposo's hit was worse than a handful of suspended hits, and also tamer than hundreds that weren't suspended. There's no rhyme or reason. We all know this.

I'm not making any excuses regarding Bunting, it's just a fact that the line of acceptability on certain plays can evolve over time (low bridge, kneeing, head contact, etc), and reverse hits are no exception. His incident was pretty much at the peak of the "we gotta get this stuff out of the game" discourse, while lately the pendulum has swung and folks seem ok with it.

Yes, Berggren's cross check was basically the same as Matthews'. Did you expect him to get the same suspension? What league have you been watching if you expected that? The problem with your case is you've only demonstrated what everyone already knows: Parros and DOPS are incompetent. You are taking it a few steps beyond credibility what you say that this incompetence only negatively affects the leafs.

If you're like most leafs fans, you probably watch every leafs game, and other teams only occasionally. Of course you can produce a laundry list of all the times you think we were wronged (and we have been). What you can't possibly have is the perspective of 31 other fanbases who all have similar grievances. Go find me one fanbase who thinks the league is on their side. I'll wait.

Do you know for a fact that the play should have been blown dead the second he desperately batted the puck away with a broken stick? Or should that just be the moment the delayed call starts until the leafs regain possession at which point the whistle blows? And even if that is a fact, what's your point? That a ref missed a call? Again, what league have you been watching that you don't expect refs to miss calls?

The tip of Woll's blocker briefly touched the top of the puck. It's extremely one sided to think we should consider that frozen or that Reinhart pushed the blocker into the net to earn the goal. The ref called no goal on the ice, meaning they needed video to conclusively refute that call. A biased ref would've just called it a goal on the ice. The League unfortunately ruled against us, so whatever McCauley thought never mattered in the end. But I forgot, whoever reviewed that play upstairs was biased, too...
 
'kay. He already has 401 goals at age 27 but he "won't even be in the same conversation" eh? You do realize Ovechkin never "won shit" until he was 32, right? And that he got all of the same criticisms because of it? Same with Steve Yzerman for what it's worth. Never count all-world players out until they're out.
Mathews might have “all world” talent, but he’s got very little heart, a wonky wrist, and enough money to not care about being considered one of the best. He’s in it for the paycheck, and I guess there’s nothing wrong with that……….
 
Chief knows that kampf should be in for domi on the road atleast but he won’t do it and I kinda get it
 

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