Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose 5-2

[Antropovsky]

The first 2- goals were absolutely stinkers especially the first goal

Meh, I dont know if they are stinkers.

First goal a right hand shot is allowed to comes down left wing for an uncontested shot. Murray probably should've kept his bad on the ice.

The second goal was a one timer from the right side by a left hand shot. Chychrun has a rocket, and he's on pace for 30 goals as a D man.

Thompson made big saves for sure but I still think Leafs are too cute and don't have buy in from certain stars on a cohesive system.

 

[Gallagbi]

The first 2- goals were absolutely stinkers especially the first goal

They're savable, but you'll get beat on clean 2on1s and onetimers like that. It happens.

 

[Antropovsky]

He's not wrong.

Nylander are Marner will never play with heart or determination. Skill only gets you part way.

Someone mentioned previously this Babs Quote "playoffs it's will over skill".

Well, Marner and Nylander have a very minimal amount of "will" in their game.

 

[Stephen]

Meh, I dont know if they are stinkers.

First goal a right hand shot is allowed to comes down left wing for an uncontested shot. Murray probably should've kept his bad on the ice.

The second goal was a one timer from the right side by a left hand shot. Chychrun has a rocket, and he's on pace for 30 goals as a D man.

Thompson made big saves for sure but I still think Leafs are too cute and don't have buy in from certain stars on a cohesive system.

Dewar trying to make that pass to Kampf, separated by two Washington Capitals in position was poor judgement.

The problem with Murray is he doesn't seem to track the puck well, and his movements are robotic and it just adds up to a structured, rigid guesswork. If it hits him it hits him but good luck if it doesn't. But again, he shouldn't really be here.

 

[Antropovsky]

Ovi said "different" coach, he didn't say anything about "better".

Truthfully, the way Devils are playing... I think the target has gotten closer to the core of this team rather than on Keefe. We still need to see how Devils do in the playoffs. But Devils seem to be much more around the net than our leafs were under Keefe.

 

[Stephen]

He's not wrong.

Nylander are Marner will never play with heart or determination. Skill only gets you part way.

Someone mentioned previously this Babs Quote "playoffs it's will over skill".

Well, Marner and Nylander have a very minimal amount of "will" in their game.

I don't think that's true. We've seen some determined production out of Willie and Mitch, it's just not consistent and not always there when you need it. I wouldn't take Ovi trash talk as gospel, the guy's a yokel and was a choke artist himself for years.

 

[Antropovsky]

Dewar trying to make that pass to Kampf, separated by two Washington Capitals in position was poor judgement.

The problem with Murray is he doesn't seem to track the puck well, and his movements are robotic and it just adds up to a structured, rigid guesswork. If it hits him it hits him but good luck if it doesn't. But again, he shouldn't really be here.

I agree, Murray is a very rigid unathletic goalie. He's got great numbers for the Marlies this year and I've thought Hildebeast looks not ready in his starts. Injuries happen, I think we are lucky to have Murray and his experience as a #3.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

The moon would ask for salary retention.

Lol

Well done.

 

[ACC1224]

I don't think that's true. We've seen some determined production out of Willie and Mitch, it's just not consistent and not always there when you need it. I wouldn't take Ovi trash talk as gospel, the guy's a yokel and was a choke artist himself for years.

I find it fascinating that it’s just assumed he’s ’trash talking’.

 

[Antropovsky]

I don't think that's true. We've seen some determined production out of Willie and Mitch, it's just not consistent and not always there when you need it. I wouldn't take Ovi trash talk as gospel, the guy's a yokel and was a choke artist himself for years.

I disagree, I dont think Ovechkin is trolling... i think he's being honest.

My opinion is that heart and determination amongst the team's leaders is key to developing a winning culture and to winning playoffs series and eventually the cup.

Sure Nylander and Marner like to score...but their lack of effort in dirty areas and their lack of fire and will to win battles is nauseating to watch.

Has a soft core ever won a Stanley Cup? I just watched another Mackinnon fight a few days ago.

 

[Stephen]

I find it fascinating that it’s just assumed he’s ’trash talking’.

Toronto has beat up on Ovi a lot over the past few years, so let's not act like Master Ovi and the Caps have some massive leg up on the "same old" Leafs and nothing has changed.

 

[JL17]

Truthfully, the way Devils are playing... I think the target has gotten closer to the core of this team rather than on Keefe. We still need to see how Devils do in the playoffs. But Devils seem to be much more around the net than our leafs were under Keefe.

That clip the other day of J Hughes wrestling a Ranger says a lot of who’s leading that team. I don’t see a high end talent doing that for the Leafs. Hischer plays a lot of tough minutes leads the right way. Hughes in his limited playoff games showed he can play playoff hockey better then some of the Leafs core pieces.

 

[Stephen]

I disagree, I dont think Ovechkin is trolling... i think he's being honest.

My opinion is that heart and determination amongst the team's leaders is key to developing a winning culture and to winning playoffs series and eventually the cup.

Sure Nylander and Marner like to score...but their lack of effort in dirty areas and their lack of fire and will to win battles is nauseating to watch.

Has a soft core ever won a Stanley Cup? I just watched another Mackinnon fight a few days ago.

Last night’s game wasn’t won and lost on heart and determination though. It was probably a standard 3-2 NHL game with goaltending disparity making it more lopsided than it could have been. If anything, it should have been determined more in terms of skill executing early and often and looked like the Red Wings game the night before.

 

[Stephen]

That clip the other day of J Hughes wrestling a Ranger says a lot of who’s leading that team. I don’t see a high end talent doing that for the Leafs. Hischer plays a lot of tough minutes leads the right way. Hughes in his limited playoff games showed he can play playoff hockey better then some of the Leafs core pieces.

That’s a Matthews level problem. He’s never really figured it out from a heat of the battle perspective and that grinning at Chiarot while getting mugged, getting beat up by Stamkos and being challenged by Konecny and having to be defended by 40 year old Giordano are reputation defining problems for him and the program.

 

[ACC1224]

View attachment 952996

Toronto has beat up on Ovi a lot over the past few years, so let's not act like Master Ovi and the Caps have some massive leg up on the "same old" Leafs and nothing has changed.

Ok

 

[Antropovsky]

That clip the other day of J Hughes wrestling a Ranger says a lot of who’s leading that team. I don’t see a high end talent doing that for the Leafs. Hischer plays a lot of tough minutes leads the right way. Hughes in his limited playoff games showed he can play playoff hockey better then some of the Leafs core pieces.

Agreed, a few days ago I posted a clip of Aho and Hughes fighting from a heated playoff battle. Weve never seem a similar battle by our guys. Our guys think they found a recipe for success where hockey doesn't need to be physical.

Where did this mentality come from? Was it coached or was it because he's they just don't have it in them? I think uncle Marleau personally. They, Marner and Matthews are or have tried to follow his short contracts (3-4 year contracts each year) and they are also following in his footsteps of being a career loser and someone not deserving of a letter (Marleau had his captaincy stripped in San Jose). You don't stay this healthy in the NHL from playing a physical brand of hockey.

 

[Antropovsky]

View attachment 952996

Toronto has beat up on Ovi a lot over the past few years, so let's not act like Master Ovi and the Caps have some massive leg up on the "same old" Leafs and nothing has changed.

Ovechkin isn't talking about Caps vs Leafs...

He's talking specifically about the Leafs and he said the team doesn't look much different than past leaf teams despite changing the coach.

I agree with Ovechkin.

Weve changed the gm, the coach, pretty much the entire roster (a few times). The only thing we haven't changed is the core.

 

[Gary Nylund]

He's not wrong.

Nylander are Marner will never play with heart or determination. Skill only gets you part way.

Someone mentioned previously this Babs Quote "playoffs it's will over skill".

Well, Marner and Nylander have a very minimal amount of "will" in their game.

Not sure this is fair. Nylander's been pretty good in the playoffs so I have no issues with him. Marner however disappears after the first 4 games, not sure if that's a matter of "heart and determination" or if it's a matter of his style of play not being effective in the playoffs.

Truthfully, the way Devils are playing... I think the target has gotten closer to the core of this team rather than on Keefe. We still need to see how Devils do in the playoffs. But Devils seem to be much more around the net than our leafs were under Keefe.

This I do agree with, at least mostly. I've maintained for some time that the M&M&JT are at the front of the line when it comes to handing out blame for our playoff failures.

I find it fascinating that it’s just assumed he’s ’trash talking’.

Weren't you the first one making assumptions about what he meant?

 

[Stephen]

Ok

You’re all over the place. How can one take Ovi trash talk seriously when we have a third stringer in net and missing a franchise level scorer?

 

[Blanka]

Approaching the midway point in the regular season, we had a stretch of 10 games where we looked really good. The rest of the games, we’ve been pretty meh. The crazy thing is we’re still first in the Atlantic.

Thanks to Woll and Stolarz. I'm glad we're "getting the bugs out" now though. If we're still relying on our goalies to play .940 hockey in late Feb/early March, then we should worry.

 

[HellasLEAF]

Not sure what is going on in Wash but that team is for real at least on eye test. Moreso first game. They will be a tough out in the playoffs whomever gets them.

 

[Stephen]

Ovechkin isn't talking about Caps vs Leafs...

He's talking specifically about the Leafs and he said the team doesn't look much different than past leaf teams despite changing the coach.

I agree with Ovechkin.

Weve changed the gm, the coach, pretty much the entire roster (a few times). The only thing we haven't changed is the core.

I've got time for the narratives surrounding this team, but sometimes a regulation loss is a regulation loss and has nothing to do with character deficiency.

Nylander had a number of opportunities in tight that Thompson made big saves on. Game of inches and quality of goaltending being a little different that could have been a multi goal game from him scoring exactly the kind of all alone in tight and greasy goals mixed with skill you'd hope for.

The big defensive miscue between Knies playing with his head down and Nylander blowing the zone was awful, but that was a defensive detail and not a heart and soul issue.

Marner had some assertive shot attempts on net and look on the PK. He looked more or less fine getting opportunities. Not a referendum on his personal character 24 hours after a natural hat trick.

 

[Metroid]

Looks like the craps and ovi suck at back to backs too...

 

[Martin Skoula]

I've got time for the narratives surrounding this team, but sometimes a regulation loss is a regulation loss and has nothing to do with character deficiency.

Nylander had a number of opportunities in tight that Thompson made big saves on. Game of inches and quality of goaltending being a little different that could have been a multi goal game from him scoring exactly the kind of all alone in tight and greasy goals mixed with skill you'd hope for.

The big defensive miscue between Knies playing with his head down and Nylander blowing the zone was awful, but that was a defensive detail and not a heart and soul issue.

Marner had some assertive shot attempts on net and look on the PK. He looked more or less fine getting opportunities. Not a referendum on his personal character 24 hours after a natural hat trick.

The nice part about saying “they don’t have what it takes” is you don’t need to explain anything about what it is you mean and people will just blindly agree with you because it sounds like the kind of thing the grizzled vet would say in a Disney sports movie.

100% of the time I can find more failures of skill, strategy, and execution in any given loss that lead to goals against or missed goals for than someone can find me of heart and Doing What It Takes (tm) leading to those same breakdowns. Now granted, maybe the heart and intangibles are the reason they’re not getting better in practice at executing under pressure or being prone to tactical breakdowns but I don’t see the point having a debate where neither party can prove what happens off ice.

 

[Evilhomer]

They are hot now so you might be right. Will be interesting to see what the standings in the Atlantic look like at the end of January.

Games like this are why I don't put much stock in Tampa's record. They just don't have much beyond their top line.