Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose 5-2

[ACC1224]

You’re all over the place. How can one take Ovi trash talk seriously when we have a third stringer in net and missing a franchise level scorer?

Not sure how I’m all over the place, I don’t see any trash talk.
You seem very passionate about this though, knock yourself out.

 

[Roo]

Meh, I dont know if they are stinkers.

First goal a right hand shot is allowed to comes down left wing for an uncontested shot. Murray probably should've kept his bad on the ice.

The second goal was a one timer from the right side by a left hand shot. Chychrun has a rocket, and he's on pace for 30 goals as a D man.

Thompson made big saves for sure but I still think Leafs are too cute and don't have buy in from certain stars on a cohesive system.

Those were two terrible goals that a quality goalie doesn’t give up. The second may have been a good one-timer, but Murray was there to make the save, he just didn’t make it. That can’t happen.

 

[Antropovsky]

Those were two terrible goals that a quality goalie doesn’t give up. The second may have been a good one-timer, but Murray was there to make the save, he just didn’t make it. That can’t happen.

Your right Murray was in position, which is credit to him... a goalie can only do his best to cover the net but there are always holes and a left hand shot from the right side makes it even harder to cut the angle down. In addition it's a one timer, from a player with a very good shot.

This isn't a muffin from the point like Leaf point shots.

 

[Antropovsky]

I've got time for the narratives surrounding this team, but sometimes a regulation loss is a regulation loss and has nothing to do with character deficiency.

Nylander had a number of opportunities in tight that Thompson made big saves on. Game of inches and quality of goaltending being a little different that could have been a multi goal game from him scoring exactly the kind of all alone in tight and greasy goals mixed with skill you'd hope for.

The big defensive miscue between Knies playing with his head down and Nylander blowing the zone was awful, but that was a defensive detail and not a heart and soul issue.

Marner had some assertive shot attempts on net and look on the PK. He looked more or less fine getting opportunities. Not a referendum on his personal character 24 hours after a natural hat trick.

I disagree, this is a pattern thats been going on for years.

For example, the Nylander jumping the zone. I said it before the season started specifically about Marner, but now Nylander is doing it alot too. Leafs are always blowing the zone looking for "easy pickings". If your constantly watching for an opportunity to jump the zone, then your head isn't thinking defense enough. It cost us the game 6, game winning goal vs Tampa years ago, when Matthews tried to get behind the D and Marner attempted the lob pass, only to have it be intercepted and Tampa score the gwg.

This past offseason, Broudreau actually called the Leafs out for jumping to offense too quickly and he said in the playoffs they pay the price for it because it doesn't work and leafs pay the price for it early in series.

The year before, Trotz admitted he didn't think the core was playing the right way for playoffs but said he thought they were beginning to learn.

Ovechkin infamously called this team out for not playing right before that too.

 

[Antropovsky]

Games like this are why I don't put much stock in Tampa's record. They just don't have much beyond their top line.

And we do?

Point, Kucherov, Cirelli, Guentzel, Hedman, Vasi, Hagel

Vs

Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Rielly, Tavares, Woll/Stolarz, Knies

 

[Racer88]

And we do?

Point, Kucherov, Cirelli, Guentzel, Hedman, Vasi, Hagel

Vs

Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Rielly, Tavares, Woll/Stolarz, Knies

Some of those players have even won a cup………..

 

[Antropovsky]

Some of those players have even won a cup………..

Yep... Vasi has a Vezina, Kucherov Art Ross, Hart, Lindsay, Hedman a Norris and they have 3 cup finals and 2 cup wins.

And we have Matthews with his Trophies and one series win.

 

[Stephen]

I disagree, this is a pattern thats been going on for years.

For example, the Nylander jumping the zone. I said it before the season started specifically about Marner, but now Nylander is doing it alot too. Leafs are always blowing the zone looking for "easy pickings". If your constantly watching for an opportunity to jump the zone, then your head isn't thinking defense enough. It cost us the game 6, game winning goal vs Tampa years ago, when Matthews tried to get behind the D and Marner attempted the lob pass, only to have it be intercepted and Tampa score the gwg.

This past offseason, Broudreau actually called the Leafs out for jumping to offense too quickly and he said in the playoffs they pay the price for it because it doesn't work and leafs pay the price for it early in series.

The year before, Trotz admitted he didn't think the core was playing the right way for playoffs but said he thought they were beginning to learn.

Ovechkin infamously called this team out for not playing right before that too.

Annoying as they are, defensive cheats that we saw with Nylander blowing the zone and the dumb dumb Dewar pass up center ice are not the same as the character flaws attributed to playoffs and short circuiting. That’s when the other team decides to operate some form of park the bus or ground and pound and our big guns are scared to go into high danger areas, drive the net.

Plus you can lose a regular season game and it’s just a loss that doesn’t go deeper than that when you don’t have your 2 best goalies or a former 2 time 60 goal man.

I don’t think Ovechkin should be taken as any authority on playing the right way either. That guy floats around the ice, parks himself on the far side and cheats for scoring like the worst of them. Good for him he won a cup once in 20 years but he had the same problems for 90% of his career that this Leaf group is accused of.

 

[Stephen]

Not sure how I’m all over the place, I don’t see any trash talk.
You seem very passionate about this though, knock yourself out.

A glib statement like that can’t be anything other than trash talk. What do you take it as, well thought out criticism?

 

[Nineteen67]

Didn’t Tampas ‘retool’ consist of Stamkos leaving for more money?
Had he taken their offer would they really have retooled?

Would they have signed Guentzel?

 

[Roo]

Your right Murray was in position, which is credit to him... a goalie can only do his best to cover the net but there are always holes and a left hand shot from the right side makes it even harder to cut the angle down. In addition it's a one timer, from a player with a very good shot.

This isn't a muffin from the point like Leaf point shots.

In today’s league, shots from far that don’t have traffic need to be stopped. Yeah, sometimes it doesn’t happen, but they are bad goals from that kind of distance when the goalie is in position to make the stop. Sometimes it happens, yes, but these mistakes are the difference.

 

[Evilhomer]

And we do?

Point, Kucherov, Cirelli, Guentzel, Hedman, Vasi, Hagel

Vs

Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Rielly, Tavares, Woll/Stolarz, Knies

Yup, similar issue for both teams. The Leafs new third line can provide scoring in the regular season, but no chance that line plays together in the playoffs.

 

[Nineteen67]

Yup, similar issue for both teams. The Leafs new third line can provide scoring in the regular season, but no chance that line plays together in the playoffs.

Tampa’s “stars” are proven winners. Leafs still don’t know if their stars are any good. That’s the biggest concern.

 

[Evilhomer]

Tampa’s “stars” are proven winners.

They are absolutely winners, but that isn't enough. Tampa simply doesn't have enough talent. No amount of character and experience will ultimately make up for that. It's why all dynasties eventually end. Of all teams, Tampa has probably done the best job of re-allocating salary, but all of the assets lost along the way in creating the dynasty eventually come home to roost. I still think that Brisebois is one of the best GMs in the league. I have enormous respect for Tampa, but no dynasty can last, and I don't think Tampa can do what Pittsburgh did (win another Cup (two) years after winning the first time), because there is only one Sidney Crosby.

 

[ACC1224]

A glib statement like that can’t be anything other than trash talk. What do you take it as, well thought out criticism?

Trash talk would be thought out. I assume he was just answering a question and probably didn’t care enough to give it much thought.

Would they have signed Guentzel?

Maybe, no idea. They probably would have found a way if they liked the player.
As I recall Stamkos left for more money, he wasn’t run out of town.

 

[MSZ]

Yep... Vasi has a Vezina, Kucherov Art Ross, Hart, Lindsay, Hedman a Norris and they have 3 cup finals and 2 cup wins.

And we have Matthews with his Trophies and one series win.

4 cup finals. Hedman, Stamkos, Kucherov, Johnson and Vasi played in that 2015 final against Chicago.

 

[Racer88]

Yep... Vasi has a Vezina, Kucherov Art Ross, Hart, Lindsay, Hedman a Norris and they have 3 cup finals and 2 cup wins.

And we have Matthews with his Trophies and one series win.

Yup and lots of excuses and according to some here we could never do without all 4 of our guys. We would automatically be worse without all 4 of them

 

[Antropovsky]

Yup and lots of excuses and according to some here we could never do without all 4 of our guys. We would automatically be worse without all 4 of them

... Shanahan questioned their killer instinct, Dubas kept trying to add grizzled former captains to be the leaders without letters and was rumored to be ready to move a core players before being let go, countless outside coaches have questioned their playoff efforts, countless media members as well, Keefe pleaded for them in thr Amazon series and in postgames to play a more playoff style of hockey in the season to no avail, keefe publically many times questioned the leaders voices and now Berube has constantly told the media they need to be less cute and more north south.

After all the past criticism and failures and STILL we have a coach calling them too cute and not north enough? Yes, I'd say we certainly are seeing consistency here.

 

[notDatsyuk]

He's not wrong.

Nylander are Marner will never play with heart or determination. Skill only gets you part way.

Someone mentioned previously this Babs Quote "playoffs it's will over skill".

Well, Marner and Nylander have a very minimal amount of "will" in their game.

I'd say that's more true of Marner and Matthews than Nylander.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

The caps are a good team. Stopped playing in the third and the Caps stepped on our throats which is what SC contenders do. No Stolarz and AM doesn’t help.

I’ve been a very vocal critic of the way Dubas MTG our future for 1 and done type players. Usually old and looking for a massive payday. That being said this team needs to address two areas, our C depth and D-a proper RHD on the first pairing.

If the rumours are true that Buffalo wants to move Cozens and our Management groups believes he can be a solid 2C behind AM I think our brass needs to pick him up. As long as Minten, Cowan are not added to the deal. I’d rather move picks at this point as our window is now.

Extend JT for a team friendly deal and he takes Cozens under his wing and plays two C until next year when he moves to the LW. Hopefully with some proper tutelage and a great offseason Cozens can be our 2C with Minten slotting into our 3C.

This year

AM
JT
Couzens

Next year
AM
Couzens
Minten

Buffalo won't trade in division unless it's an overpayment. Not happening

 

[notDatsyuk]

Annoying as they are, defensive cheats that we saw with Nylander blowing the zone and the dumb dumb Dewar pass up center ice are not the same as the character flaws attributed to playoffs and short circuiting. That’s when the other team decides to operate some form of park the bus or ground and pound and our big guns are scared to go into high danger areas, drive the net.

Plus you can lose a regular season game and it’s just a loss that doesn’t go deeper than that when you don’t have your 2 best goalies or a former 2 time 60 goal man.

I don’t think Ovechkin should be taken as any authority on playing the right way either. That guy floats around the ice, parks himself on the far side and cheats for scoring like the worst of them. Good for him he won a cup once in 20 years but he had the same problems for 90% of his career that this Leaf group is accused of.

Wasn't it Ovi who scored an empty net goal on Saturday by being up at centre ice while the puck was behind their net?

 

[Nineteen67]

Trash talk would be thought out. I assume he was just answering a question and probably didn’t care enough to give it much thought.


Maybe, no idea. They probably would have found a way if they liked the player.
As I recall Stamkos left for more money, he wasn’t run out of town.

When they decided on Guentzel that meant Stamkos wasn’t getting anything close to what he was making and I seem to recall him saying Tampa didn’t offer anything prior to FA day.

 

[Gary Nylund]

They are absolutely winners, but that isn't enough. Tampa simply doesn't have enough talent. No amount of character and experience will ultimately make up for that. It's why all dynasties eventually end. Of all teams, Tampa has probably done the best job of re-allocating salary, but all of the assets lost along the way in creating the dynasty eventually come home to roost. I still think that Brisebois is one of the best GMs in the league. I have enormous respect for Tampa, but no dynasty can last, and I don't think Tampa can do what Pittsburgh did (win another Cup (two) years after winning the first time), because there is only one Sidney Crosby.

Enough talent for what? Who's said anything about winning the cup?

 

[SprDaVE]

This team just isn't very good to me without top tier goaltending every night. Something needs to kick into gear. They need to probably re-adjust some of the depth contributors and they need more offense from the back end at some point.

It's also funny this team even with a different GM and coach have followed the same trends of the last 7-8 years. Average start, hot November, struggling December.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Yup and lots of excuses and according to some here we could never do without all 4 of our guys. We would automatically be worse without all 4 of them

How is that not objectively true? If you taker all 4 away the team is worse.

You MIGHT be able to replace Tavares and be better long term just because of age but even he's over a ppg.

The other 3 are impossible to replace and be better