Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose 5 -1

[Gabriel426]

It's rough. I can't point to many people on this team I'd be like "ya we gotta keep that guy to build a winner". Rebuild the ENTIRE team around Matthews, Knies, McMann, Benoit, McCabe, Domi? So sad.

You forgot Reilly.

I really think it is Keefe plus JT and maybe even Willie and MM too. Heck, maybe even AM is the problem but he is just too valuable to trade away.
It will be like the Caps where they just kept building around Ovie and Backstorm till they got the right players moving up the ranks in Wilson, Kuz, Carlson and others.

 

[34]

It feels the same as the Florida series but much earlier. I feel like the off season is already here. Season over.

Yes it totally feels like the series is over. I never felt they were in it.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

You forgot Reilly.

I really think it is Keefe plus JT and maybe even Willie and MM too. Heck, maybe even AM is the problem but he is just too valuable to trade away.
It will be like the Caps where they just kept building around Ovie and Backstorm till they got the right players moving up the ranks in Wilson, Kuz, Carlson and others.

I honestly think we'd be a better team if we just fired Keefe RIGHT NOW and put everyone on edge and made the assistant coaches handle it. I also think we'd be better off firing the entire coaching staff and letting any fans that feel like it take over behind the bench. Not sure what they're doing but it isn't coaching. We have zero structure in any regard, ES, PP, PK, it's not fun to watch either.

 

[Gabriel426]

leafs had the momemtum like what 2 min 1st 20 vs 18 and like 8 min in 40 vs 32 for Boston. when 2 period in a row the 1st shot goes in, thats hurt. Its also the timing of when those goal happened.

If it

number of goal allowed by samsoniv 1st 40 = 4
number of goal both team gm 1 carolina vs NYI = 3
number of goal on both team gm 1 florida vs tampa= 4

number of weak goal by samsonov 3 ( can say 2 if im generous with Samsonov)
number of weak goal allowed by 7 other goalie than samsonov until now = 2

its playoff hockey,

I am not disagreeing with you that Sammy sucks.
But at the same time, our top guys sucked too.
MM and JT can't generate anything in Game 1. That had nothing to do with goaltending.
AM got a chance here and there but beside on the PP, he really didn't had any good looks.
Bert and Domi were busy but thats about it, both of them didn't had any danger chance.

It is not like Sammy was the reason they lost. The whole team starting with Keefe really crapped the bed.

I honestly think we'd be a better team if we just fired Keefe RIGHT NOW and put everyone on edge and made the assistant coaches handle it. I also think we'd be better off firing the entire coaching staff and letting any fans that feel like it take over behind the bench. Not sure what they're doing but it isn't coaching. We have zero structure in any regard, ES, PP, PK, it's not fun to watch either.

Thats what I think too. Not a fan of Babs anymore but his Leafs was structure esp in the playoffs. Pushing 3 OT games against the Caps. The first and second Bruins series, esp the second one where we thought we would had been swept going into the playoffs.

 

[authentic]

The only reason that series was close was vasi was well below average.

Our goalie wasn't a whole lot better. At the end of the day Tampa did not really outplay us much if at all. They did get off to better starts than us consistently but the Leafs outplayed Tampa in the 2nd and 3rd periods throughout most of the series.

 

[frizzer1]

During the 4 on 3 they fed Tavares in front twice and he couldn’t convert.
Bad luck?
Maybe.
But his reaction time has dropped and he’s been doing that all year.
Bert is more effective there and didn’t he do that for Boston last year?
Keefe is either trying to not shame Tavares or he is just a bad coach?

 

[Gabriel426]

During the 4 on 3 they fed Tavares in front twice and he couldn’t convert.
Bad luck?
Maybe.
But his reaction time has dropped and he’s been doing that all year.
Bert is more effective there and didn’t he do that for Boston last year?
Keefe is either trying to not shame Tavares or he is just a bad coach?

Difference between Bert and JT. Bert stationed in front of the goalie while JT placed himself next to the goalie.

 

[Nineteen67]

That was painful. Thank you for making me relive that.

That’s a lasting image.

Makes you wonder how bad the hockey would have to be for the Leafs to win 16 playoff games?

 

[Nineteen67]

Our goalie wasn't a whole lot better. At the end of the day Tampa did not really outplay us much if at all. They did get off to better starts than us consistently but the Leafs outplayed Tampa in the 2nd and 3rd periods throughout most of the series.

The Leafs scored because vasi let in stoppable shots.

 

[authentic]

The Leafs scored because vasi let in stoppable shots.

Sounds like the reason why teams score against us lol

 

[Nineteen67]

Sounds like the reason why teams score against us lol

Sometimes. Last night wasn’t on the goalie other than maybe the first DeBrusk goal

 

[thusk]

I am not disagreeing with you that Sammy sucks.
But at the same time, our top guys sucked too.
MM and JT can't generate anything in Game 1. That had nothing to do with goaltending.
AM got a chance here and there but beside on the PP, he really didn't had any good looks.
Bert and Domi were busy but thats about it, both of them didn't had any danger chance.

It is not like Sammy was the reason they lost. The whole team starting with Keefe really crapped the bed.


Thats what I think too. Not a fan of Babs anymore but his Leafs was structure esp in the playoffs. Pushing 3 OT games against the Caps. The first and second Bruins series, esp the second one where we thought we would had been swept going into the playoffs.

hockey is a game of momemtum, how can you build momemtum when 2 period in a row, your goalie giving up a goal on 1st shot and didn't made ANY key save.

With momemtum maybe if samsonov made the save on beecher in 1st, maybe leafs would score like 3-5-10 min later and same on both goal in 2nd. If anyone here thinking leafs will win a serie by giving up 3/4 goal + every game.... good luck

with this tandem last 2 yeqr
- of 3 goal allowed last 2 year = 3 time 3 win 0 lost
3goal+= 9 time and 2 win 7 lost

you removing all weak goal and its a 1-1 game. dont think leafs gonna beat boston 4 time giving up 3 or 4 goal on each game, i guarantee leafs will lose it

 

[hotpaws]

so the bar for tavares is now shots? You are talking about tavares like he's a 3rd line scrub. Moreover, all this shows is tavares is an ass finisher.

The expectation for robertson is to have high danger shots and slot shots. The expectation for tavares is to score some f***ing points

what's worse is Tavares can't create any of those high danger shots for himself , he just hangs around the slot/net front waiting to be fed

 

[RunItBackAgain]

what's worse is Tavares can't create any of those high danger shots for himself , he just hangs around the slot/net front waiting to be fed

And often times he gets tunnel vision and doesn't see a wide open pass in a better position than he's in. JT get puck, JT shoot puck. His new motto.

 

[Gabriel426]

hockey is a game of momemtum, how can you build momemtum when 2 period in a row, your goalie giving up a goal on 1st shot and didn't made ANY key save.

With momemtum maybe if samsonov made the save on beecher in 1st, maybe leafs would score like 3-5-10 min later and same on both goal in 2nd. If anyone here thinking leafs will win a serie by giving up 3/4 goal + every game.... good luck

with this tandem last 2 yeqr
- of 3 goal allowed last 2 year = 3 time 3 win 0 lost
3goal+= 9 time and 2 win 7 lost

you removing all weak goal and its a 1-1 game. dont think leafs gonna beat boston 4 time scori g at leadt 4 goal because goalie cant stop anything

What you are saying is that bc Sammy let in weak goals, our 69 goals scorer can no longer score, our top winger, whom some deem the player with the highest IQ in the league can no longer make a pass or create anything.

Come on. AM, MM, JT and the rest of the forwards struggles to find the back of the net is a completely separate thing from Sammy or any goalies not making a save.

IF what you claim is true, then AM, MM and JT are mentally hobbits and should be traded away from this team, bc if they shy away the moment there is adversity, they can't win anything.

If it helps with your worship to our top guys that they can do NO wrong. Thats fine.
But like most of us here, we actually live in REALITY. Where there will be problems all the time, and those who succeed are those who overcome those problems. And after 8 yrs, if AM, MM, JT and Willie still can't overcome bad goaltending or whatever, they should just shut up and go to a team where they won't be the leaders of the team and let others lead them when the going gets tough and just play supporting roles. Kind of like Eichel with Vegas.
THe fact that AM, MM and JT ended the game with NO goals and NO points, just showed they need their goalie(Sammy) to have a shutout inorder for the Leafs to have any chance of success.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

they've had hundreds of practices, but this one will fix the PP and PK?

I assume most teams have days off win or lose.

Were any of those practices after a playoff game? Could they not have seen something in the Boston PP that they could adjust to? Or seen something in the PK that maybe they could exploit? Those 3 attempted shots along the ice by Matthews for tips close to Swayman were not working. How about practising freeing up Matthews for a clear shot on net based on what they saw? You think Boston didn't tweak anything before the playoffs we could adjust to?

They should have had a full practice, if nothing else, to practice their abysmal special teams.

 

[hotpaws]

And often times he gets tunnel vision and doesn't see a wide open pass in a better position than he's in. JT get puck, JT shoot puck. His new motto.

oh he see's it , he just doesn't give a f***

for JT his priorities have always been

1 - get his
2 - get his
3 - get his
4 - team success

all you had to do was watch him shoot at end of the last regular season game instead of even taking a split second to see if he could set up AM for his 70th

 

[thusk]

What you are saying is that bc Sammy let in weak goals, our 69 goals scorer can no longer score, our top winger, whom some deem the player with the highest IQ in the league can no longer make a pass or create anything.

Come on. AM, MM, JT and the rest of the forwards struggles to find the back of the net is a completely separate thing from Sammy or any goalies not making a save.

IF what you claim is true, then AM, MM and JT are mentally hobbits and should be traded away from this team, bc if they shy away the moment there is adversity, they can't win anything.

If it helps with your worship to our top guys that they can do NO wrong. Thats fine.
But like most of us here, we actually live in REALITY. Where there will be problems all the time, and those who succeed are those who overcome those problems. And after 8 yrs, if AM, MM, JT and Willie still can't overcome bad goaltending or whatever, they should just shut up and go to a team where they won't be the leaders of the team and let others lead them when the going gets tough and just play supporting roles. Kind of like Eichel with Vegas.
THe fact that AM, MM and JT ended the game with NO goals and NO points, just showed they need their goalie(Sammy) to have a shutout inorder for the Leafs to have any chance of success.

after 4 game
6 of 8 team actually in playoff scored less than 3 goal on gm1

the average goal/ team right now is at 2.125. leafs had alreadt alliwed that in 25 minu and 2X that number after 38 minute...

try to name me 1 team in salary cap era who had succes allowing 1-2-3 weak goal every game just for fun. you will never be able to find any, even edmonton with mcdavid/draisaitl playing amaizing hockey never be close. its just too hard in playoff scoring than you cant allowing 2 or 3 bad goal in a single game and hoping to still win, the only way is getting a goalie as bad than yours in the other side, the only one.

toronto could open the gates and play high risk game to try to come back, but if ypur goalie are unsble to make basic save, do he will be able to protect from high scoring chance if youre taking more chance?

losing 8-4 but with good offensive stats, it is really better than 4-1?

 

[hamzarocks]

Same complaints were made about Tavares last season. From Sportsnet article:

And second, in terms of successful (as in, they landed on net) shots taken from the inner slot in the playoffs, John Tavares had twice as many as the next best Leafs player with 20 in just 11 games. That he only had four playoff goals is crazy; he’s the only guy who can really make a claim to have gotten “unlucky” with his post-season output (his secondary assists also dried up, which is partially bad luck).



This was this past season:
Toronto Maple Leafs: Forward John Tavares has the second-most high-danger shots on goal (155) this regular season behind Hyman.
and here's the data on Marner from last playoffs:

But still, everyone is shooting from farther way (measured in average feet from the net per shot).

Average shooting distance
Imagine tacking two, or four feet, on to every shot you take in the regular season and expecting the same results. Let alone nearly 10.

Another way to look at this is by “portion of shots from the slot.” This is just compared to themselves -- are they getting the same quality looks they usually get per shot? The answer, outside of Matthews, is a pretty clear “no.”

Percentage of shots from the slot
Marner’s “portion of shots from the slot” percentage was last on the Leafs in the playoffs by over 10 per cent. Michael Bunting, another important forward for them, saw his percentage drop from 63.5 per cent (second best in regular season) to 57.1 per cent.

It's also tough to make sense of Matthews' dried-up point totals, but what really dropped were his primary assists, which went from 1.16 (per 60) to 0.48. Hindsight is 20/20, but seeing how far Marner was living from the net in the above stats, and that Calle Jarnkrok was on Matthews' left side, maybe it would’ve been tough to tally many points on passes

Chances from the Slot dont matter if your not producing

Tavares has 22 pts in 32 games as a leaf for the playoffs. Hes a waste of space when he gets force fed chances and isnt capable to convert.

Why cant he set up any one for a high danger chance? When is the last time hes made a great pass to get his winger a high scoring chance?

 

[Gabriel426]

after 4 game
6 of 8 team actually in playoff scored less than 3 goal on gm1

the average goal/ team right now is at 2.125. leafs had alreadt alliwed that in 25 minu and 2X that number after 38 minute...

try to name me 1 team in salary cap era who had succes allowing 1-2-3 weak goal every game just for fun. you will never be able to find any, even edmonton with mcdavid/draisaitl playing amaizing hockey never be close. its just too hard in playoff scoring than you cant allowing 2 or 3 bad goal in a single game and hoping to still win, the only way is getting a goalie as bad than yours in the other side, the only one.

Do you know how to read?

Where and when have I said Sammy letting in goals was not a problem.

What I have been saying is that AM, MM and JT needs to score and create offense bc those three going goalless and pointless won't help the Leafs.

Had any playoffs game sofar ended with 1-0? Can you tell me any team in the Cap era where they won a series with their top three paying players/forwards going goalless and pointless in a series?

Just admit that both goalies and our big guns choked in Game 1. Sammy struggling doesnt mean AM couldn't score, or MM couldn't generate offence, or JT being slow. Just like if Sammy making saves, it doesn't mean AM will score, or MM will generate offence or JT skates faster.
Goalie is like pitcher in baseball. Your team pitcher can give up 10 runs, it doesn't mean your hitters can just mail it in and stop trying to get a hit or a run even if they know it is hard to score 11 runs.
And if the hitters have that lets give up and stop trying mentality, they are not winners, they are losers.
Did MJ stop trying when he faced the Celtics in the playoffs during the 80s, he scored 60 pts against them in playoffs despite losing. Did Liverpool stopped playing in the 2005 CL finals when they were down by 3 goals at half time? They fought back and won the Finals. Did the Mahomes and the Chiefs just give up after their defense let in a touchdown or two?

For some reason, some fans here are just so in love with our top guys that, you guys are constantly finding others to blame for Leafs losing. You guys will find stats to support and believe that those stats are 100% correct. Now some of those stats do but stats don't tell the complete story. Also the only stats that truly matters in the playoffs is the final score. Scoring ONE goal in the playoffs will not win you a lot of games.

 

[djdev]

the bad habits that developed late in the season that keefe completely brushed off instead of working on cost us again, no cleaning up of the PK, no working on d partners, and generally no work on just playing a tight system. also, 8 straight games with 2 goals or fewer for our vaunted core. JT/marner especially for me come post season are consistently just bad.

i used to love the leafs in the playoffs, last 3 years or so games like last night i just turn off and do something else.

players like tucker/roberts/dougie/clark etc were players that you wanted to do well because they bled for the team and would do anything for a cup, these guys just dont have that mentality and will prob never sniff a cup here because of it even if they are infinitely more talented.

tough to be a fan of this team.

p.s. please for the love of god find a coach that holds ALL his players accountable for bad play, not just easy targets like rookies and depth players, and can actually adapt if things arent working.

rant over lol.

 

[Nineteen67]

That was painful. Thank you for making me relive that.

Look at this goober needlessly skating an extra 30 feet …..he could have hurt himself

 

[RunItBackAgain]

Look at this goober needlessly skating an extra 30 feet …..he could have hurt himself

Such a fool. Imagine what you could do with that energy later on in the game!

 

[MSZ]

Such a fool. Imagine what you could do with that energy later on in the game!

Should have saved his strength for the next round like the Leafs core did!

 

[thusk]

Do you know how to read?

Where and when have I said Sammy letting in goals was not a problem.

What I have been saying is that AM, MM and JT needs to score and create offense bc those three going goalless and pointless won't help the Leafs.

Had any playoffs game sofar ended with 1-0? Can you tell me any team in the Cap era where they won a series with their top three paying players/forwards going goalless and pointless in a series?

Just admit that both goalies and our big guns choked in Game 1. Sammy struggling doesnt mean AM couldn't score, or MM couldn't generate offence, or JT being slow. Just like if Sammy making saves, it doesn't mean AM will score, or MM will generate offence or JT skates faster.
Goalie is like pitcher in baseball. Your team pitcher can give up 10 runs, it doesn't mean your hitters can just mail it in and stop trying to get a hit or a run even if they know it is hard to score 11 runs.
And if the hitters have that lets give up and stop trying mentality, they are not winners, they are losers.
Did MJ stop trying when he faced the Celtics in the playoffs during the 80s, he scored 60 pts against them in playoffs despite losing. Did Liverpool stopped playing in the 2005 CL finals when they were down by 3 goals at half time? They fought back and won the Finals. Did the Mahomes and the Chiefs just give up after their defense let in a touchdown or two?

For some reason, some fans here are just so in love with our top guys that, you guys are constantly finding others to blame for Leafs losing. You guys will find stats to support and believe that those stats are 100% correct. Now some of those stats do but stats don't tell the complete story. Also the only stats that truly matters in the playoffs is the final score. Scoring ONE goal in the playoffs will not win you a lot of games.

the only thing i said is when youre goalie giving weak goal boosting opposite team confidence and energy, it will always become harder to score than when opposing team in under pressure.

just imagine, if exemple samsonov keep it a 2-0 unstead of 4-0, just imagine the difference of impact kampf goal would had... 1 goal lead or 3 goal lead, not the same thing and youre not as confident with only 1 goal lead... anf maybe at the end we would saw the same result than game 3 vs tampa when samsonov made harder save than that to keep leafs in game.

and maybe unstead of being a zero, maybe one of matrhews marner jt rielly would score tying goal and game winning goal. Sometime the difference between be a zero or a hero is extremely small