Proposal: Carolina/Minnesota blockbuster

[HFpapi]

No, I'm not sniffing glue, but I am still high off the 4 Nations fumes. This board is just for fun so don't get your knickers in a bunch, it's just for fun.

*Disclaimer* (Very important, please read): This is entirely predicated on Rantanen not agreeing to a deal with the Hurricanes prior to the TDL and also not a sign and trade, meaning he hasn't agreed to sign with the Wild either. Risk involved which brings the value closer together IMO.

With that said, this entire half-baked idea is emanating from the assumption that the Wild mgmt want a full-time Faber-Slavin pairing in a bad way after watching the 4 Nations.

The Trade:

To Carolina:

Kaprizov
Brodin

To Minnesota:

Slavin
Rantanen

The rational:

Yes, on name value, this looks insane for Carolina. Your best player, #1 Dman AND a top 5 winger in the game? Again, go back to the disclaimer. This assumes Rantanen is leaving as a rental. He was going to leave anyways. The Hurricanes hedge their bets and replace Rantanen with an electric 27 year old winger who still has one more year left on his deal and is as good if not even better than Rantanen.

Slavin's stock is sky high but Brodin is also a top flight shut down Dman and the Canes have Nikishin coming in as well. Hurricanes D takes a hit but they get their star offensive winger.

For the Wild, this looks like a no-brainer on paper, but again, the disclaimer. Kaprizov & Brodin is a very steep price to pay for a 30 year old Dman if Rantanen walks. If the Wild can resign him however, it's a slam dunk, home run, bullseye.

Canes fans can argue that this is insane because they can still get a good return for a rental Rantanen and keep Slavin, but I disagree. Rentals, no matter the quality of the player, never return anything substantial beyond picks and prospects. I think if Rantanen walked, the Canes are better long-term with Kaprizov and Brodin than with Slavin and picks & prospects.

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[AhosDatsyukian]

Big Kaprizov fan but Slavin isn’t getting traded

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Wild get hosed. No thanks.

 

[HFpapi]

Wild get hosed. No thanks.

How so? I thought Wild fans would be all for it and Canes fans wanting to puke.

You'd have the best defensive pairing in hockey for the next 5-6 years and I think with Kaprizov's cap hit moved out and the buy-outs coming off the books this off season, you can afford to throw a monster offer at Rantanen.

Would you be in favour of this if you knew for sure Rantanen would re-sign?

 

[spockBokk]

Rentals, no matter the quality of the player, never return anything substantial beyond picks and prospects.

Hi there glue-sniffer.

When has there been a rental the caliber of Rantanen potentially available at a $2.3M cap hit?

He’s not going to return a Necas, but if the Canes do trade him, it will be for a haul, futures or otherwise. I’d look to a team like Dallas, where maybe a roster player, like Marchment, would be part of the return and then a high end prospect/pick(s). I’d think the Canes would be looking for a roster piece + futures or easily flippable futures.

The notion that then Canes would ever consider moving Slavin is laughable.

 

[HFpapi]

Hi there glue-sniffer.

When has there been a rental the caliber of Rantanen potentially available at a $2.3M cap hit?

He’s not going to return a Necas, but if the Canes do trade him, it will be for a haul, futures or otherwise. I’d look to a team like Dallas, where maybe a roster player, like Marchment, would be part of the return and then a high end prospect/pick(s). I’d think the Canes would be looking for a roster piece + futures or easily flippable futures.

The notion that then Canes would ever consider moving Slavin is laughable.

So you think Slavin & Marchment > Kaprizov & Brodin? I'd have to disagree.

 

[BB88]

Wild get hosed. No thanks.

C’moon now

Slavin is the best defensive Dman in the league and legit 1D, while Rantanen is a legit superstar forward in the same tier as Kaprizov

 

[DaveG]

Yeah this is a hard no from Carolina. I like our chances at keeping Rantanen beyond this year a hell of a lot more than I would like our chances at keeping Kaprizov beyond next year, and as much as I like Boldy in no f***ing world do I give up Slavin.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

How so? I thought Wild fans would be all for it and Canes fans wanting to puke.

You'd have the best defensive pairing in hockey for the next 5-6 years and I think with Kaprizov's cap hit moved out and the buy-outs coming off the books this off season, you can afford to throw a monster offer at Rantanen.

Would you be in favour of this if you knew for sure Rantanen would re-sign?

There is a massive gulf between Kaprizov and Rantanen in terms of team impact. Brodin - Faber is already a premier shutdown pair and while Slavin has a better health history, there just isn’t a world where this makes the defensively focused Wild a better team.

 

[SnS]

Yeah this is a hard no from Carolina. I like our chances at keeping Rantanen beyond this year a hell of a lot more than I would like our chances at keeping Kaprizov beyond next year, and as much as I like Boldy in no f***ing world do I give up Slavin.

Boldy isnt in the trade. It’s Brodin.

 

[HFpapi]

Yeah this is a hard no from Carolina. I like our chances at keeping Rantanen beyond this year a hell of a lot more than I would like our chances at keeping Kaprizov beyond next year, and as much as I like Boldy in no f***ing world do I give up Slavin.

Well this entire hypothetical is predicated on the idea that the Canes know Rantanen won't re-sign (or at least have very little faith that he will) by the TDL so that point is moot.

Also, if you are saying no to Kaprizov & Boldy, you are going to be disgusted to learn that the offer is not Boldy, it's Kaprizov and Brodin. You read too fast.

Kaprizov and Boldy coming from the Wild would be absurd.

 

[spockBokk]

So you think Slavin & Marchment > Kaprizov & Brodin? I'd have to disagree.

That’s twisting valuations around. About as absurd as your original post.

 

[TGWL]

Kaprizov would be a monster add for them. But losing Slavin and then potentially losing Kaprizov would be devastating to their organization. If Canes can't sign Kaprizov, I don't think they trade him (in the chance he waives), if they're a high playoff spot next season. You can't just keep losing people.

 

[HFpapi]

That’s twisting valuations around. About as absurd as your original post.

A ninja edit from you. Originally you said yes, you think Slavin & Marchment > Kaprizov & Brodin.

Had second thoughts on that answer?

How is it twisting valuations around? You said you could just trade Rantanen at the deadline for someone like Marchment, so the net outcome of your idea vs mine is exactly what I said: Slavin & Marchment or Kaprizov & Brodin.

If you think Kaprizov and Brodin looks better, then my idea isn't so crazy.

Kaprizov would be a monster add for them. But losing Slavin and then potentially losing Kaprizov would be devastating to their organization. You can't just keep losing people.

Yes, Kaprizov having only one year left on his deal after this season is a concern if you're the Canes. At least you know you'd have him for two playoff runs but I think with fellow Russians (Svechnikov & Nikishin) + competitive team + big offer (throw at him what you were prepared to offer Rantanen), good chance he stays.

 

[WaW]

Trade ideas that pretend biology and that historical trends regarding age don't exist, are pretty bad.

Slavin is arguably the best player in the league defensively. Like every single team would want the player he is right now on their top pair, and his AAV is great.

The problem is that he's almost 31, and guys like him fall off cliffs in their early 30s, and there isn't enough offense to make up for it when he loses a step sooner rather than later.

No way in hell Minnesota gives up Kaprizov for the uncertainty of Rantanen's next contract + whether he remains the same player after signing it, just to upgrade Brodin (who is also a pretty solid top 4 dman already) with Slavin, who you are just waiting to see when father time kicks him in the balls.

 

[trick9]

Bad for the Wild.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

How so? I thought Wild fans would be all for it and Canes fans wanting to puke.

You'd have the best defensive pairing in hockey for the next 5-6 years and I think with Kaprizov's cap hit moved out and the buy-outs coming off the books this off season, you can afford to throw a monster offer at Rantanen.

Would you be in favour of this if you knew for sure Rantanen would re-sign?

Because you didn’t guarantee a deal with Rantanen and I would rather pay Kaprizov than Rantanen.

C’moon now

Slavin is the best defensive Dman in the league and legit 1D, while Rantanen is a legit superstar forward in the same tier as Kaprizov

Rantanen doesn’t have a contract after this season, so it’s Kaprizov+Brodin for Slavin+a couple months of Rantanen. The deal is terrible for Minnesota.

 

[north21]

Can't imagine trading kap away for any unsigned ufa, it's borderline insane.

Even if rants was signed I'm too attached to kap and just like his game more.

Just no reason to do this.

 

[HFpapi]

Trade ideas that pretend biology and that historical trends regarding age don't exist, are pretty bad.

Slavin is arguably the best player in the league defensively. Like every single team would want the player he is right now on their top pair, and his AAV is great.

The problem is that he's almost 31, and guys like him fall off cliffs in their early 30s, and there isn't enough offense to make up for it when he loses a step sooner rather than later.

No way in hell Minnesota gives up Kaprizov for the uncertainty of Rantanen's next contract + whether he remains the same player after signing it, just to upgrade Brodin (who is also a pretty solid top 4 dman already) with Slavin, who you are just waiting to see when father time kicks him in the balls.

Not as bad as people who still think every athlete that turns 30 is washed, devoid of value, and imminently going to fall off a cliff.

Tons of players have been having the best years of their careers in that 29-35 age range lately. Medical science + in-season diet, nutrition, and recovery, + off season training is far better than it used to be. 32 isn't ancient anymore.

Can't imagine trading kap away for any unsigned ufa, it's borderline insane.

Even if rants was signed I'm too attached to kap and just like his game more.

Just no reason to do this.

Are you forgetting Slavin is part of this?

 

[AKL]

How so? I thought Wild fans would be all for it and Canes fans wanting to puke.

Why would you think that? Kaprizov is the best player in this deal by a lot

 

[HFpapi]

Because you didn’t guarantee a deal with Rantanen and I would rather pay Kaprizov than Rantanen.

Rantanen doesn’t have a contract after this season, so it’s Kaprizov+Brodin for Slavin+a couple months of Rantanen. The deal is terrible for Minnesota.

Your perspective is fair and understandable but I think with Kap going the other way + the buyouts off the books, I think the Wild would be maybe the best positioned team in the league to make Rantanen a mega offer than gets him to stay.

I indeed didn't guarantee a deal for Rantanen in OP and that is part of the calculus here but you can also deduce the chances that he stays with realistic variables like how much cap space the Wild would have and how attractive the team looks with JEE, Boldy, Faber, Slavin, Rossi, etc.

In fairness, Kap also only has 1 year left after this one. Not like he's on a 7 year deal himself.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

In a vacuum, probably not bad: Kaprizov > Rantanen, Slavin > Brodin. Pretty decently balanced.

Problem is, in a couple months time, we could just be left with Kaprizov and Brodin for Slavin, and in a year's time, it might just be Slavin for Brodin. Something both teams would balk at. If Rantanen comes with an extension, that would be better for us, but Kaprizov can't do the same for Carolina.

Also, NMCs on our end.

 

[HFpapi]

In a vacuum, probably not bad: Kaprizov > Rantanen, Slavin > Brodin. Pretty decently balanced.

Problem is, in a couple months time, we could just be left with Kaprizov and Brodin for Slavin, and in a year's time, it might just be Slavin for Brodin. Something both teams would balk at. If Rantanen comes with an extension, that would be better for us, but Kaprizov can't do the same for Carolina.

Also, NMCs on our end.

If Rantanen comes with an extension then Minny needs to add and add pretty big.

What makes this tolerable for Carolina is that he doesn't.

The reason I think Minnesota should take the risk is because the Wild should be looking at Kaprizov's 9 million of outgoing salary + 14 million of buyouts coming off the book + a significant cap increase over the next 3 years and see no reason why they can't offer Rantanen 14.5 x 8 and force his hand to stay.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

If Rantanen comes with an extension then Minny needs to add and add pretty big.

What makes this tolerable for Carolina is that he doesn't.

The reason I think Minnesota should take the risk is because the Wild should be looking at Kaprizov's 9 million of outgoing salary + 14 million of buyouts coming off the book + a significant cap increase over the next 3 years and see no reason why they can't offer Rantanen 14.5 x 8 and force his hand to stay.

Fair or not, I'm much more comfortable giving Kaprizov that kind of money than I am Rantanen. Still TBD what he is away from MacKinnon, but the start hasn't been great. Right here, right now, the idea of that contract makes me pretty queasy.

 

[north21]

Are you forgetting Slavin is part of this?

The value is certainly there but I'm OK walking away.