Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose 4-2

[Stephen]

Yeah 2 1sts and 2 good prospects would be a great start….

No kidding.

 

[Nineteen67]

I’m amazed Woll hasn’t injured his groin yet, goaltending has been the bright spot thus far imo…….

They must have both ready. When Berube said he wanted one guy to carry the load in the playoffs my spidey senses were tingling because neither has done that before.
They built the team with several red flags and rarely do all the unknowns work out positively. Couple that with the known flaws and you lower your expectations on what success is with this group.

 

[rumman]

That's the problem..organizational bloat is weighing them down. They also bought into some bizarre ideology.

They hire a lot of friends. I mean how hard is this.

1. Decide the team you want to build.
2. Clear out what doesn't fit.
3. Get a 1G
4. Work on D
5. Work on getting C's

They don't know how to stick to a plan

Gambling the house on Boy Wonder was the beginning of the end, Shanahan must of watched Money Ball too many times…….

 

[Commander Clueless]

I'm not sure I can describe how much of an improvement Marleau and Thornton level playoff success would be for this team.

 

[rumman]

The only viable option is a retool. You play hard ball with marner and Tavares to take the lowest and shortest deals possible so they can be turned into assets, if they walk afterwards then so be it. You then identify two main pieces in free agency, likely Bennett and Chychrun, sign both, trade Rielly for cap space and attempt to fill in holes within the roster with players who hate to lose who can actually produce. You give this process until the end of the 2027 season and if the results are the same you trade everyone you can outside of knies, Cowan, to get as many young assets and first rounders you can to bottom out for the 2028 season when we do have our own first again. We can't burn it down now and we certainly can't run it back again so to me that is the only option availible.

A fire sale would recoup lost picks and prospects, but no one in Leafs management gas the stones to do what’s needed………

 

[Gary Nylund]

If this were actually the case, then this place would be far more measured after the Leafs win a few games in a row, but it's not. And that's fine. It's the nature of being a sports fan. But just like you shouldn't plan a parade when the team wins three games in a row, there is no reason to start talking about rebuilds after they lose two games in a row. Let's see what they look like when the playoffs start.

That's fair. We can't make any moves now anyway so may as well wait until the playoffs are over, and if we win the cup the narrative will be different anyway. That said, we've been so bad lately, we're at full strength so no excuses, people were saying it takes time to adjust to a new coach/system so just wait until March, then we'll really be good etc. so it's understandable why many have given up and are starting to discuss our next moves already.

You predicted that we'd win the division, how are you feeling about that now? Still think we're going to do so? I don't see it myself, in fact I'd say the chances of Ottawa catching us are probably better than the chances of us winning the division.

Edit - the point that it's not just a few games, it's actually many years is also a valid one.

 

[Nineteen67]

I'm not sure I can describe how much of an improvement Marleau and Thornton level playoff success would be for this team.

My recollection is they were really good at hockey and had a lot of success in SJ. I fail to see the comparison.

 

[rumman]

This place is toxic only because everyone overreacts after every win and loss. Teams are allowed to lose a couple of games in a row. The great Tampa Bay Lightning, the team that everyone here loves to praise, lost three in a row before last night. Florida lost to Montreal and looked terrible doing it. It happens. These games of course have value for determining where teams land in the standings, but history shows that regular season games tend to have pretty low predictive value for the outcome of playoff games. Judge this team for what it does in games 5, 6 and 7 of a playoff series, not game 68 of the regular season.

Come on, Leafs Nation wants to know what’s your next prediction, that ought to lighten the mood up in here………

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yep.

I decided to spend a lot less time on watching them and following them here this season. I'm just not overly interested after seeing the same thing year after year.

If the opponent really wants to beat the Leafs, they do. There's no will to win baked into this team.

Same here. Not a conscious decision on my part, but for quite some time now I often have the game on but am doing other things, I take a look when a goal is scored and maybe watch the last few minutes if that game is close. Last night was one of the few times lately when I watched the whole game and I can't say I was impressed.

I'm happy for Ottawa though, good to see them on the way up again!

 

[rumman]

What your seeing is a fanbase who's witnessed many, many years of failure literally seeing a repeat of the same movie and knowing precisely what they're seeing.

Not a fanbase who's just slapping the blue and white goggles on and pretending it's all hunky dory.

Overreaction? Get the f*** out of here with that nonsense, believe it or not some of us a have memory that goes past 1 offseason.

Sadly for some, it’s been since 1967, I wonder how many of Leaf Nation weren’t even born then?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Come on, Leafs Nation wants to know what’s your next prediction, that ought to lighten the mood up in here………

+1

 

[arso40]

Marner and Tavares walking isn't going to make Matthews and Nylander instantly become players who give it there all night in and night out who hate to lose. It's just not who they are as players. The only hope is to surround them with players who do hate losing who can also produce in the hope that they will elevate their play when it matters most.

No but it’s easier to shift those 2s mentality then those 4 they’re already the two most likely to play that way anyway add to knies mcmann even robby has a bit of that dog in em it’s whiny Mitch and cyborg jt that I can’t see it in

 

[myleafs]

That was my point, Berube was never going to fix them, or any other coach for that matter

I do wonder what a coach like Cooper could do.

 

[rumman]

Full NMC though - he doesn't need to move anywhere. He's already establishing a family in TO.

We're stuck with him dude.

Former New York Rangers captain Jacob Trouba says hi, but your right no one at MLSE has the stones to do what’s needed……

 

[Bust]

Leafs just willingly went along with this scenario?

I know it’s a little tinfoil-hatish, but I think teams are being a lot more cautious regarding team doctors making surgical decisions after what happened to Eichel.

Matthew’s second opinion, probably determined that this was a non-surgical issue and that it could be “played through”. I’m sure it will come out after the season ends that Matthew will be getting surgery, surgery he needed most likely in September.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

I've always sorta thought this year was a "transition" year ans next year they do some damage... But even like this, watching them play , whether it's a losing skid at the worst time or shit imploding isn't fun. We need to find a way to defund MLSE and not have major corporations in charge of a blue collar hockey team. (What once was back before all this bullshit corporatism, but unfortunately, corps are (actually.. have taken over the world. They're already ruined music with live Nation... End rant. Let's all go get our Timmies and Uber eats and Amazon shit and bow down to our corporate Over Lords

(How's that for a crazy morning rant)

MLSE isn't making hockey decisions (unlike the old days). If you want someone to blame, only one guy has been consistently running hockey operations.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Yeah 2 1sts and 2 good prospects would be a great start….

Genuinely depressing that's what we emptied our barren cupboard for.

 

[Commander Clueless]

My recollection is they were really good at hockey and had a lot of success in SJ. I fail to see the comparison.

They have a reputation for never being able to get San Jose over the hurdle and win a cup.

But they still made a lot of noise in the playoffs.

These Leafs are setting a new standard of playoff choke. It's quite incredible to watch really.

Generational.

 

[Metroid]

MLSE isn't making hockey decisions (unlike the old days). If you want someone to blame, only one guy has been consistently running hockey operations.

I'm sure they're sending some sort of ideology or what not. Shanahan is the problem. NHL shill . It's all little bit of everything. Even if Marner and Tavares walks, it'll be all same ol' safe b.s. big changes need to happen at top. Rogers coming in will probably make this worse, didn't they buy out Bell?

 

[Nineteen67]

Marner and Tavares walking isn't going to make Matthews and Nylander instantly become players who give it there all night in and night out who hate to lose. It's just not who they are as players. The only hope is to surround them with players who do hate losing who can also produce in the hope that they will elevate their play when it matters most.

But they give their all most nights and I think they do hate losing. Adding talent that has the physical ability to play with them is the key. 53% of the cap on basically the same type of player doesn’t work.

I think if you take any of the four and put them on a contender and they’d be fine in the playoffs. I still can’t believe Matthews didn’t try to land in Vegas when he had the opportunity.

 

[myleafs]

Never understood this argument. MLSE clearly want to win and have tried different tactics to find the right combination, it just hasn't worked. Even when there was no cap, they consistently had one of the highest payrolls (I think only the Rangers spent more). MLSE might be doing it wrong (or not, who knows) but that doesn't mean they should be punished. If they were cheapskates, I'd agree. They aren't, they're trying.

There is one combination/tactic left that they haven't tried with this group and its the most obvious one now for a few years.

 

[Nineteen67]

They have a reputation for never being able to get San Jose over the hurdle and win a cup.

But they still made a lot of noise in the playoffs.

These Leafs are setting a new standard of playoff choke. It's quite incredible to watch really.

Generational.

Winning the Cup is hard.

 

[Stephen]

I'm sure they're sending some sort of ideology or what not. Shanahan is the problem. NHL shill . It's all little bit of everything. Even if Marner and Tavares walks, it'll be all same ol' safe b.s. big changes need to happen at top. Rogers coming in will probably make this worse, didn't they buy out Bell?

Shanahan might be this and that and whatever, but it is the core group that is the fundamental problem.

 

[Brown Dog]

I love JT. The guy could've played it safe and kept cashing cheques as the face of the Islanders--or screwed off to even bigger cheques and the obscurity of San Jose. He chose the harder road to come home while becoming a villain to the franchise that drafted him and made him their captain. I will always respect for him that.

But if we bow out quietly again--which seems highly likely--I think a split is essential with Tavares. It was worth a shot but didn't work out, and we have to go in a different direction rather than double-down on what appears to have been a wrong direction 7 years ago.

 

[rumman]

Shanahan might be this and that and whatever, but it is the core group that is the fundamental problem.

A problem Shanahan and company have refused to address, he’s the last guy in the organization who should get a hall pass imo…….