Eklund Rumor: Leafs in on Cam Fowler

[Mr Hockey*]

I'd pass. Why trade a D? We are trying to upgrade...not replace, and the last thing the Ducks need is more D (especially one they already had). And if it isn't obvious, i'm not a proponent of advanced stats.....

Fowler is an big upgrade over Gardiner.

 

[Liferleafer]

Fowler is an big upgrade over Gardiner.

Maybe, but the idea is to add Fowler to Rielly/Gardiner/Zaitsev etc....not replace one of them.

 

[Kiwi]

Fowler is an big upgrade over Gardiner.

Why when we have only 2 top 4 Dmen would we trade Gardiner if we acquired Fowler?
Fowler Rielly
Gardiner Zaitsev
That's what we would be looking at trading Gardiner just puts us back in the same position

 

[Sojourn]

That was Gardiners end of the season CRQoC numbers,

We have to give up Gardiner, levio + 2nd for Fowler

That doesn't make sense from Anaheim's perspective(I can't comment on Toronto's, so I won't).

You have Anaheim moving the better defenseman, for Gardiner, who is only signed one year longer with a negligible difference in cap hit. Even before you get to the addition of Leivo and the 2nd, that makes little sense for Anaheim. Why wouldn't they just keep Fowler?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Why when we have only 2 top 4 Dmen would we trade Gardiner if we acquired Fowler?
Fowler Rielly
Gardiner Zaitsev
That's what we would be looking at trading Gardiner just puts us back in the same position

MikeC21 doesn't seem to believe that

 

[Mr Hockey*]

That doesn't make sense from Anaheim's perspective(I can't comment on Toronto's, so I won't).

You have Anaheim moving the better defenseman, for Gardiner, who is only signed one year longer with a negligible difference in cap hit. Even before you get to the addition of Leivo and the 2nd, that makes little sense for Anaheim. Why wouldn't they just keep Fowler?

I would trade JVR <> Fowler?

 

[Mr Hockey*]

MikeC21 doesn't seem to believe that

I see Gardiner as a sheltered 2nd pairing #4 d'man, that is just my opinion that can be backed up with stats.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

I see Gardiner as a sheltered 2nd pairing #4 d'man, that is just my opinion that can be backed up with stats.

That can't be backed up at all (You just use stats that are meaningless - I.e You use TOI and PK TOI to decide what type of D they are. So if we use your logic, Girardi is a shutdown #2 defenseman when even Rangers fans agree he's a #6 calibre D).


Gardiner is our best D (Rielly will pass him eventually), and it's been like that for years now. Go back and look at his usages if you're not satisfied with this season.

 

[Mr Hockey*]

That can't be backed up at all (You just use stats that are meaningless - I.e You use TOI and PK TOI to decide what type of D they are. So if we use your logic, Girardi is a shutdown #2 defenseman when even Rangers fans agree he's a #6 calibre D).


Gardiner is our best D (Rielly will pass him eventually), and it's been like that for years now. Go back and look at his usages if you're not satisfied with this season.

Dan Boyle is Gardiners match, on the rangers, Girardi looks like Hunwicks match.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

The Leafs need is on defense and Ducks need is offense.
This is why they are often linked as possible trading partners.
The Leafs will not be trading defense to get defense it's just not worth it for either them or the Ducks.
Anaheim is in a win now window and needs a #1 LW to improve their chances.
This is why the thread is JVR for Fowler.
I wouldn't make this deal from a Leafs perspective unless there is an add, like the second round pick that the Ducks received for Andersen.
There is no urgency for the Leafs. The fan base is ready to start the season with the roster as is.

Anaheim has urgency.
They have an internal cap, expensive RFAs to sign, a potential valuable asset to be lost in the expansion draft and a closing window to win with three 31year old depreciating assets making more than $23,000,000 signed for at least five more years.

Trading partners for Anaheim is a very short list especially when the cap is considered.
Leafs can afford to wait if the Ducks don't overpay then no deal.

 

[Ciao]

The Leafs need is on defense and Ducks need is offense.
This is why they are often linked as possible trading partners.
The Leafs will not be trading defense to get defense it's just not worth it for either them or the Ducks.
Anaheim is in a win now window and needs a #1 LW to improve their chances.
This is why the thread is JVR for Fowler.
I wouldn't make this deal from a Leafs perspective unless there is an add, like the second round pick that the Ducks received for Andersen.
There is no urgency for the Leafs. The fan base is ready to start the season with the roster as is.

Anaheim has urgency.
They have an internal cap, expensive RFAs to sign, a potential valuable asset to be lost in the expansion draft and a closing window to win with three 31year old depreciating assets making more than $23,000,000 signed for at least five more years.

Trading partners for Anaheim is a very short list especially when the cap is considered.
Leafs can afford to wait if the Ducks don't overpay then no deal.

Bang on.

I'd still rather pass on Fowler, though, and watch the Leafs develop from within, unless there's such a good deal they can't refuse.

Fowler for JVR+ or Fowler for JVR straight-up isn't it. That could well be straight-up value, but I hope the Leafs won't bite unless it's a real bargoonie.

The Leafs don't need this deal.

The Ducks don't need this particular deal either, but their fans sure seem very interested in deals involving Fowler. Gotta be a reason for that, eh?

 

[TopShelfWaterBottle]

Bang on.

I'd still rather pass on Fowler, though, and watch the Leafs develop from within, unless there's such a good deal they can't refuse.

Fowler for JVR+ or Fowler for JVR straight-up isn't it. That could well be straight-up value, but I hope the Leafs won't bite unless it's a real bargoonie.

The Leafs don't need this deal.

The Ducks don't need this particular deal either, but their fans sure seem very interested in deals involving Fowler. Gotta be a reason for that, eh?

Ya him being our BEST affordable trade chip to bring in forward help on a team stacked on defense but lacking on offense. Because good forwards matter to you know?

 

[lindholmie]

The Leafs need is on defense and Ducks need is offense.
This is why they are often linked as possible trading partners.
The Leafs will not be trading defense to get defense it's just not worth it for either them or the Ducks.
Anaheim is in a win now window and needs a #1 LW to improve their chances.
This is why the thread is JVR for Fowler.
I wouldn't make this deal from a Leafs perspective unless there is an add, like the second round pick that the Ducks received for Andersen.
There is no urgency for the Leafs. The fan base is ready to start the season with the roster as is.

Anaheim has urgency.
They have an internal cap, expensive RFAs to sign, a potential valuable asset to be lost in the expansion draft and a closing window to win with three 31year old depreciating assets making more than $23,000,000 signed for at least five more years.

Trading partners for Anaheim is a very short list especially when the cap is considered.
Leafs can afford to wait if the Ducks don't overpay then no deal.

LMAO jvr for fowler + a second. 24 year old 35+ pts defensemen who averages over 23+ mins will be wanted by many teams. Hes only signed for 4 mill so hes cheap. youre delusional man

 

[Ciao]

LMAO jvr for fowler + a second. 24 year old 35+ pts defensemen who averages over 23+ mins will be wanted by many teams. Hes only signed for 4 mill so hes cheap. youre delusional man

If we're going to have a delusion, it might as well be a nice one.

Like getting rid of Clarkson without eating salary.

Finding a new home for Jason Blake, or trading an aging Beauchemin for a young defence prospect and an oft-injured forward.

Those things rarely happen, but we dream on.

 

[Mr Hockey*]

LMAO jvr for fowler + a second. 24 year old 35+ pts defensemen who averages over 23+ mins will be wanted by many teams. Hes only signed for 4 mill so hes cheap. youre delusional man

How about Kadri straight up for fowler?

 

[Ciao]

How about Kadri straight up for fowler?

That works better for the Leafs, Mike, with Matthews and Nylander in the fold. Kadri should be expendable when those two develop.

 

[Sojourn]

Zero interest in Kadri.

 

[skyo]

JVR for Fowler str8 up, just get it done and over with already.

 

[Hunter368]

JVR for Fowler str8 up, just get it done and over with already.

Value is very close IMO, both have same term. Jvr is a good 1st line winger and Fowler is a good #3 guy.

Not sure if it matches either teams needs, but value is close

 

[Ziggdiezan]

I think JVR has much more value to the leafs than Fowler considering leafs have 2 defenders of similar caliber that play the same side while having 0 top 6 LWs outside of JVR.
Also when JVR's contract expires it is not like the leafs 100% won't resign him.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Dan Boyle is Gardiners match, on the rangers, Girardi looks like Hunwicks match.

Girardi dragged McDonagh and his teammates a LOT more than Hunwick did. In fact, Hunwick only hurt Rielly when used. It's no question Hunwick is better than Girardi. Which is why he's not even on a lot of Rangers projected lines.

That's ridiculous.
Gardiner Zone starts: 33.8% O (3rd Most/5, 4th most had 32% O Rielly) and 32.8% D (3rd Most/5, 2nd Most had 34% Rielly)
Boyle Zone starts: 38.5% O (2nd Most/6, 3rd Most had 28%) and 25% D (2nd Most/6, Next most was 34% D)

Do you realize how different those situations are!? Gardiner's pairing in Toronto got the 2nd hardest zone starts (almost similar to Rielly's zone starts). Boyle's pairing got the easiest zone starts by a LOT. They were incredibly sheltered. No where near close. Like at all.

How about Kadri straight up for fowler?

Nope, not doing that. Why pay a premium asset for a guy we're going to HAVE to play on his off-side. Would rather trade a premium asset for a guy in the proper position.

 

[Ciao]

I think JVR has much more value to the leafs than Fowler considering leafs have 2 defenders of similar caliber that play the same side while having 0 top 6 LWs outside of JVR.
Also when JVR's contract expires it is not like the leafs 100% won't resign him.

I agree entirely.

Lot of prospects but none like JVR.

How many, many competitive teams have we seen pine for someone just like him? Many over the years. He would not be easily replaced.

If it were the other way around -- a surplus of big, strong power forwards with good hands and no players or prospects with comparable skills to fowler that would be a great deal for the Leafs. But it isn't that way.

 

[Clark4Ever]

JVR is a 30/30 power forward with plenty of productive years ahead of him. He's worth more than a second pairing defenceman in my opinion, with all due respect to Fowler.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

JVR is a 30/30 power forward with plenty of productive years ahead of him. He's worth more than a second pairing defenceman in my opinion, with all due respect to Fowler.

If Fowler is a 2nd pairing defensemen then you are being generous with your JVR description, for a power forward he does not like contact much

 

[xxreact9]

Why when we have only 2 top 4 Dmen would we trade Gardiner if we acquired Fowler?
Fowler Rielly
Gardiner Zaitsev
That's what we would be looking at trading Gardiner just puts us back in the same position

Can you and all leaf fans pls stop saying Gardiner is a top-4. He just isn't.

I get he's a good skater and looks flashy to your eyes. But he isn't a top-4. He's an egregious -38 over the last 2 seasons. By comparison, Dion utter Phaneuf was only a -15. He only earned 17 mins/game last year on a team that is screaming for help on D. By comparison, Matt absolute Hunwick averaged over 18.

He's also God awful in analytics. Not awful just because he's a leaf, but awful relative to his teammates. He also by no means has difficult match ups in comparison to the leafs top pairing over this span.

In every single metric on earth other than "he looks fast and good", Gardiner is an offensively oriented 3rd pairing defender at best. He played forward for a lot of his life and will probably never develop the defensive instincts to excel at the position. He has a good toolbox, but that is it