Sportsnet: Leafs half season review.

[Buds17]

The author should have waited 2 more games before writing that article instead of riding the high of beating LA (and then the other two trash California teams three times).

"David Kampf is a luxury item if he’s playing on your fourth line given his utility" lol. Kampf has been utter trash this season. I can't believe so many people were up in arms about his healthy scratch breaking his iron man streak. He is the single worst forward on the team, and notably has the worst xGA/60, and only Gregor (who also sucks but earns way less) and McMann (who "can rip it"? what, in warmup?) have worst xGA/60. And somehow this is a fourth line that "makes sense" compared to when Spezza was on it? What a joke.

I agree with you. I think each member of that fourth line brings something to the table individually while somehow not meshing particularly well defensively.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Honestly Domi and Bertuzzi's lack of production has hurt the team more than Kampf or any of the other fringe players. No one expected it to take until December for Domi to get his first goal and he doesn't always seem to be playing to his ability. A lot of off nights from both of them. From what I saw of Bert in Detroit and Boston I expected him to have 30 30 numbers easily and be a prominent player. He rarely makes a difference out there. He took a 1 year mid contract to bet on himself but if Bertuzzi keeps at his current rate does any GM throw a big check at him?

 

[Dekes For Days]

You claim a nepotism hire in Treliving, but in the same thought mention how great a GM Dubas was, who only got his start in hockey through pure nepotism. Nice work

Weird thing to say about somebody that worked their way up from stick boy -> BSM graduate -> youngest certified player agent ever -> OHL GM -> assistant GM/interim GM/cup-winning AHL GM -> NHL GM -> NHL President and GM, and who was hired here because of his proficiency and success, and not because of any connections to anybody. You also seemed to miss the actual important part about what they did after they were hired. The concern is the number of bad signings/choices this past offseason that left holes and weaknesses in our roster, and the drop we've had this season so far as a result.

Considering that we had nothing better than Knies, Robertson, and Holmburg playing for us last game, and we've had to use some combination of prospects filling in top-9 roles the whole season, yes, it looks like years of borrowing have taken their toll.

Uh what? We had nothing better than Knies, Robertson, and Holmberg? Of course we have better players than them. What they are is cheap, quality depth at ELC prices, provided by our previous GM, that have earned their spots and helped cover for the disappointing choices our new GM made this past offseason.
Imagine trying to argue that an abundance of ELC depth is bad, and a sign that the future was abandoned lol.

 

[Fogelhund]

Honestly Domi and Bertuzzi's lack of production has hurt the team more than Kampf or any of the other fringe players. No one expected it to take until December for Domi to get his first goal and he doesn't always seem to be playing to his ability. A lot of off nights from both of them. From what I saw of Bert in Detroit and Boston I expected him to have 30 30 numbers easily and be a prominent player. He rarely makes a difference out there. He took a 1 year mid contract to bet on himself but if Bertuzzi keeps at his current rate does any GM throw a big check at him?

Domi is top sixty in scoring for C's.... that's very good production for a 3C, particularly on a $3 million contract. He's over 0.5PPG, which really is where the bar should be for him.

Bertuzzi on the other hand, has been a bit of a bust for us. How is it possible that playing with Matthews and Marner, he could be below 0.5 PPG, at $5.5 mil? Of course we obtained him for the playoffs... so, I guess we judge on that? I don't know, but he hasn't been close to expectations, as you say.

--------------------------

PP2... I don't get PP2 at all... like seriously.. we have been trotting out Bertuzzi, Jarnkrok, Domi, Lilly and Timmins last night. Bertuzzi has been terrible on the PP. It should be Jarnkrok, Domi, Robertson, Knies and Timmins/Liljegren. Two of the best shooters in Roberston and Knies sitting on the bench on the PP.... crazy. Knies should be in front of the net learning how to JvR.... Robertson has a great shot, and underrated passing... Robbie probably has the second best shot on the team... am I the only one scratching his head here? Timmins when in the lineup absolutely should be running the PP.... this is just nuts.

 

[Dekes For Days]

PP2... I don't get PP2 at all... like seriously.. we have been trotting out Bertuzzi, Jarnkrok, Domi, Lilly and Timmins last night. Bertuzzi has been terrible on the PP. It should be Jarnkrok, Domi, Robertson, Knies and Timmins/Liljegren. Two of the best shooters in Roberston and Knies sitting on the bench on the PP.... crazy. Knies should be in front of the net learning how to JvR.... Robertson has a great shot, and underrated passing... Robbie probably has the second best shot on the team... am I the only one scratching his head here? Timmins when in the lineup absolutely should be running the PP.... this is just nuts.

Yeah, I agree and really don't get this. Robertson has a laser of a shot, and should be the one they're trying to set up on PP2. Creating the space to get his shot off is like the big offensive transition he's having from AHL to NHL, but you have so much more time and space on the PP. He should feast. He's also used to playing with Domi and Jarnkrok. Bertuzzi hasn't earned being on the PP, and whatever role we want him to play should be what we're training Knies to do for us long-term anyway.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Weird thing to say about somebody that worked their way up from stick boy -> BSM graduate -> youngest certified player agent ever -> OHL GM -> assistant GM/interim GM/cup-winning AHL GM -> NHL GM -> NHL President and GM, and who was hired here because of his proficiency and success, and not because of any connections to anybody. You also seemed to miss the actual important part about what they did after they were hired. The concern is the number of bad signings/choices this past offseason that left holes and weaknesses in our roster, and the drop we've had this season so far as a result.

lol I'm not sure if that's impressive or creepy that you know so much about Dubas. I just remember his connection to the Soo, how unusually well spoken he was and his dorky glasses. He might have earned his way into the NHL but it was an odd time for the Leafs. Just a lot of what ifs and what the hells. You have to wonder how much different things would have gone if an old school GM was running things in place of Dubas. Maybe we don't make the Marleau and Thorton signings and win more rounds.

 

[Atomos2]

D. D- if I’m being honest.

 

[Dekes For Days]

lol I'm not sure if that's impressive or creepy that you know so much about Dubas. I just remember his connection to the Soo, how unusually well spoken he was and his dorky glasses. He might have earned his way into the NHL but it was an odd time for the Leafs. Just a lot of what ifs and what the hells. You have to wonder how much different things would have gone if an old school GM was running things in place of Dubas. Maybe we don't make the Marleau and Thorton signings and win more rounds.

It's pretty easy to read a couple paragraphs of his Wikipedia. There's always going to be what ifs, but we'd probably be way worse off if we went with an "old school GM". They haven't exactly worked out well for us in recent history (and Marleau was signed by an old school GM FYI). Am hoping that Treliving can turn things around, but it's a concerning half season start in a year where it should have been fairly easy to maintain the level we were at.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Uh what? We had nothing better than Knies, Robertson, and Holmberg? Of course we have better players than them. What they are is cheap, quality depth at ELC prices, provided by our previous GM, that have earned their spots and helped cover for the disappointing choices our new GM made this past offseason.
Imagine trying to argue that an abundance of ELC depth is bad, and a sign that the future was abandoned lol.

There's always an abundance of cheap depth to be had at cheap prices.

The problem is that, thanks to the mistakes made by our awful (and now happily departed) GM, we can't afford anything better.

Imagine trying to argue that having to use those types of players on the top lines is a sign that the future wasn't abandoned.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

It's pretty easy to read a couple paragraphs of his Wikipedia. There's always going to be what ifs, but we'd probably be way worse off if we went with an "old school GM". They haven't exactly worked out well for us in recent history (and Marleau was signed by an old school GM FYI). Am hoping that Treliving can turn things around, but it's a concerning half season start in a year where it should have been fairly easy to maintain the level we were at.

Wasn't Dubas part of Lou Lam's staff when they brought in Marleau and wouldn't that make him in on it? Also what bugged me about Marleau was the high price Dubas had to pay to unload his contract. Maybe a more veteran GM makes a better deal.

My point is just that maybe if we had a GM with a totally different approach we don't waste so many years of the big 3. Tavares has got to be considered a bad signing in retrospect. If we kept Kadri instead I think we do more damage in the post season and have more cap room.

 

[Lemontree]

Weird thing to say about somebody that worked their way up from stick boy -> BSM graduate -> youngest certified player agent ever -> OHL GM -> assistant GM/interim GM/cup-winning AHL GM -> NHL GM -> NHL President and GM, and who was hired here because of his proficiency and success, and not because of any connections to anybody. You also seemed to miss the actual important part about what they did after they were hired. The concern is the number of bad signings/choices this past offseason that left holes and weaknesses in our roster, and the drop we've had this season so far as a result.

Worked his way up...give me a break. His grandfather coached the team for the majority of the 1960s and his father worked there in a different capacity. He was a nepo hire due to the families deep roots with the organization. He guided them to what...no better than 3rd place finishes in their division.

The core of the Marlies Calder winning roster was made up of Leaf draft picks that Dubas had nothing to do with, he was not the architect of that winning team but he sure got a lot of credit for it.

The concern is the nothing but bad decisions made over and over again by Dubas for years leading to the current roster. Here is the current players on the roster that were contributed by Dubas:

F: Tavares, Kampf (re-signed by Tre), Jarnkrok, Knies (draft pick), Robertson (draft pick), McMann.
D: Brodie, McCabe, Timmons, Giordano.
G: Samonov (re-signed by Tre).

How many of these players are providing value based on their cap hit or asset cost to acquire?

The Leafs are playoff competitive due to the high end talent that exists (that was handed to Dubas), the Leafs are not a series cup contender because of the previous 5 years of asset drain and cap mismanagement that brings in the very mediocre cast of players mentioned above.

 

[pspot]

literally the definition of being crazy. I feel like we've been having the same conversation about the same issues for the past 4 or 5 years. Team is to top heavy and character with the core. Need to upgrade D (top pair RHD specifically), goaltending, and team compete/toughness (which won't come from the core). granted they finally added some sand paper pieces this year but as noted the core is the issue. Which they've now extended all with full NMC...and not only did they not fire the coach who was brought in by the last GM , they renewed them.

We all know this but just saying it out loud still seems so frustrating. As along term fan, essentially now looking at a wait and see strategy based on where the cap goes and whether the spare parts they bring each year stick. Oh and not enough coming from the system cause they had to trade picks to move contracts of pieces they brought in that didn't work.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The problem is that, thanks to the mistakes made by our awful (and now happily departed) GM, we can't afford anything better.

Except that's not true. We had plenty of cap space last offseason. The new GM decided to waste 17m on Bertuzzi, Klingberg, Samsonov, Kampf, and Reaves - none of which have lived up to their compensation - and trade away quality depth. Thank god our previous GM didn't abandon the future, and instead built up our prospect pool to provide the ELC depth that's currently helping to save us from those bad decisions.

Wasn't Dubas part of Lou Lam's staff when they brought in Marleau and wouldn't that make him in on it? Also what bugged me about Marleau was the high price Dubas had to pay to unload his contract. Maybe a more veteran GM makes a better deal. My point is just that maybe if we had a GM with a totally different approach we don't waste so many years of the big 3. Tavares has got to considered a bad signing in retrospect. If we kept Kadri instead I think we do more damage in the post season and have more cap room.

He was an assistant GM primarily in charge of the AHL. He had no control over NHL UFA signings. The price was a result of how horrible that contract was, not the GM.
We likely go after Tavares and trade Kadri after his second suspension, no matter who the GM is, but the more likely outcome if we didn't is: we miss the chance to propel our team into the upper-echelon, takes steps back, our center depth is a joke, Kadri gets suspended every playoffs and sees his value plummet even further as we lose even worse in the playoffs, and we eventually overpay some 30+ year old middle-tier center long-term to play 2C.

Worked his way up...give me a break. His grandfather coached the team for the majority of the 1960s and his father worked there in a different capacity.

His grandfather had coached the team 44 years prior, and his dad had interned, but the idea that he got the job on anything but his own abilities isn't really supported by anything.

Lou Lukenda, the Greyhounds' majority shareholder and president, said the original plan called for the team to hire a veteran hockey man until Dubas walked in for his interview armed with a 95-page blueprint on the future of the team.

"He came well prepared and has some excellent ideas," Lukenda said. "We thought his experience as an agent could help us and we liked the idea that he wanted a team that would be good every year, as opposed to the idea of building a team to try and go all the way for one year, only to pay the consequences for the next three or four."

Lukenda said four other quality candidates interviewed, but the board was unanimous in wanting Dubas.

And again, I don't really care what the Greyhounds did over a decade ago anyway. I care about what the Leafs do, and what the GMs do when they're here.

The core of the Marlies Calder winning roster was made up of Leaf draft picks that Dubas had nothing to do with, he was not the architect of that winning team but he sure got a lot of credit for it.
The concern is the nothing but bad decisions made over and over again by Dubas for years leading to the current roster. Here is the current players on the roster that were contributed by Dubas:

Just like any winning team, the Marlies had multiple contributors to their eventual success, but to say that he had nothing to do with it is inaccurate and doesn't change that he had AHL-winning GM on his resume. We didn't have "nothing but bad decisions" previously, and that's why we were able to build and maintain a top tier team through some very difficult situations.
Here is the breakdown of our roster:
Burke - Rielly (re-signed by Dubas)
Nonis - Nylander (re-signed by Dubas)
Lou - Matthews (re-signed by Dubas), Liljegren (re-signed by Dubas), Woll (re-signed by Dubas)
Dubas - Tavares, Marner, Jarnkrok, Knies, Robertson, McMann, Brodie, McCabe, Giordano, Timmins, Holmberg (re-signed by Treliving), Kampf (re-signed by Treliving), Samsonov (re-signed by Treiving)
Treliving - Bertuzzi, Domi, Reaves, Jones, Benoit, Gregor, Klingberg (LTIR)

Our best contracts are a result of Dubas, and while Treliving did well with the cheap deals (Holmberg, Jones, Benoit, Gregor), outside of Domi, the significant pieces signed last offseason have ranged from disappointing to disaster (Bertuzzi, Klingberg, Reaves, Kampf, Samsonov), the lack of cohesive mix has played out as expected, we're left with holes, and that's the real reason we've taken a step back so far, not prior asset drain/cap mismanagement, or because we're finally getting ELC contributions (lol).

 

[ToneDog]

Except that's not true. We had plenty of cap space last offseason. The new GM decided to waste 17m on Bertuzzi, Klingberg, Samsonov, Kampf, and Reaves - none of which have lived up to their compensation - and trade away quality depth. Thank god our previous GM didn't abandon the future, and instead built up our prospect pool to provide the ELC depth that's currently helping to save us from those bad decisions.

He was an assistant GM primarily in charge of the AHL. He had no control over NHL UFA signings. The price was a result of how horrible that contract was, not the GM.
We likely go after Tavares and trade Kadri after his second suspension, no matter who the GM is, but the more likely outcome if we didn't is: we miss the chance to propel our team into the upper-echelon and we fall back to a middling team, our center depth is a joke, Kadri gets suspended every playoffs and sees his value plummet even further as we lose even worse in the playoffs, and we eventually overpay some 30+ year old middle-tier center long-term to play 2C.

His grandfather had coached the team 44 years prior, and his dad had interned, but the idea that he got the job on anything but his own abilities isn't really supported by anything.

And again, I don't really care what the Greyhounds did over a decade ago anyway. I care about what the Leafs do, and what the GMs do when they're here.

Just like any winning team, the Marlies had multiple contributors to their eventual success, but to say that he had nothing to do with it is inaccurate and doesn't change that he had AHL-winning GM on his resume. We didn't have "nothing but bad decisions" previously, and that's why we were able to build and maintain a top tier team through some very difficult situations.
Here is the breakdown of our roster:
Burke - Rielly (re-signed by Dubas)
Nonis - Nylander (re-signed by Dubas)
Lou - Matthews (re-signed by Dubas), Liljegren (re-signed by Dubas), Woll (re-signed by Dubas)
Dubas - Tavares, Marner, Jarnkrok, Knies, Robertson, McMann, Brodie, McCabe, Giordano, Timmins, Holmberg (re-signed by Treliving), Kampf (re-signed by Treliving), Samsonov (re-signed by Treiving)
Treliving - Bertuzzi, Domi, Reaves, Jones, Benoit, Gregor, Klingberg (LTIR)

Our best contracts are a result of Dubas, and while Treliving did well with the cheap deals (Holmberg, Jones, Benoit, Gregor), outside of Domi, the significant pieces signed last offseason have ranged from disappointing to disaster (Bertuzzi, Klingberg, Reaves, Kampf, Samsonov), the lack of cohesive mix has played out as expected, and that's the real reason we've taken a step back so far, not prior asset drain/cap mismanagement, or because we're finally getting ELC contributions (lol).

Dubas won one round in 5 years. Not what I call setting the bar high for Tre.

 

[PROUD PAPA]

Torn between a c+ and b. They're about what i thought they would be but get a little boost because Holl and Knies have really impressed.

 

[ToneDog]

C. Thought the additions of Bert and Domi would have more impact than they have. Even with Nylander finding another gear and Matty scoring goals at a record pace, we are still 3rd in the division. Disappointing to say the least.

 

[Gallagbi]

Except that's not true. We had plenty of cap space last offseason. The new GM decided to waste 17m on Bertuzzi, Klingberg, Samsonov, Kampf, and Reaves - none of which have lived up to their compensation - and trade away quality depth. Thank god our previous GM didn't abandon the future, and instead built up our prospect pool to provide the ELC depth that's currently helping to save us from those bad decisions.

Toss in Domi and we spent $20M this offseason in signings. You could argue Domi's the only one who hasn't been a complete disaster and he's still on pace for less than 10G while struggling defensively

 

[Dekes For Days]

Dubas won one round in 5 years. Not what I call setting the bar high for Tre.

And yet, we were a better team with a better chance at the cup. Which is why most aren't so simplistic in their evaluations.

 

[ponder]

8th overall by PTS%, 12th overall by Regulation PTS%.

Last season we were tied for 4th by PTS% and clear 3rd by regulation PTS% so definitely we've taken a step backwards.

Unquestionably, this team has been worse than any of the Leafs teams of the past 3 seasons. Points, goals for/against, advanced stats, eye test, it’s clear from any of these that we don’t dominate games as strongly as we did the last 3 years.

Of course, playoff success is unpredictable, it’s still very possible this year’s team achieves more - we’re still a good team. But from what we’ve seen so far, it’s clear the team has regressed a bit.

 

[nuck]

They look "sloppy". Lots of bashing of individuals going on here as usual but its a team sport. With any performance at all from Sammy they are 3 or 4 wins better. Beyond him the lineup is a lot better than this. It will be a nice test against Edmonton. They have played the Oil well in recent years. I predict they win one for the Keefer.

They need their mojo back and it will come in the form of a winning streak which they are due for. I hate to put it on pone guy but its Woll that needs to carry the mail for them and run that streak.

 

[ToneDog]

And yet, we were a better team with a better chance at the cup. Which is why most aren't so simplistic in their evaluations.

Sure we were a better team last year because Dubas mortgaged the future to get players at 25% of their cap hits. For somebody who has defended Dubas since you joined in Sept 2018 and are still defending him, you seem to have written Tre off in half a season. I'll wait for Tre to build "his" team before I close the books on him.

 

[Nineteen67]

They are meeting expectations. They have taken a few steps out of the hole they were put in, but there’s a long way to go yet.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Sure we were a better team last year because Dubas mortgaged the future to get players at 25% of their cap hits. For somebody who has defended Dubas since you joined in Sept 2018 and are still defending him, you seem to have written Tre off in half a season.

We were a better team last year before the deadline even happened. And the year before that... And the year before that. Etc. And during last year's deadline, we not only paid a reasonable price for a rental, we also acquired multiple players with term, and traded multiple players for draft picks, including a 1st. The only thing I have defended are good moves, and an accurate representation of history. I haven't written off Treliving. I hope he can turn it around, but his decisions last offseason were highly questionable at the time, and halfway through the season, have largely been a disaster resulting in the team taking unnecessary steps back, which is deserving of crticism.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Except that's not true. We had plenty of cap space last offseason. The new GM decided to waste 17m on Bertuzzi, Klingberg, Samsonov, Kampf, and Reaves - none of which have lived up to their compensation - and trade away quality depth. Thank god our previous GM didn't abandon the future, and instead built up our prospect pool to provide the ELC depth that's currently helping to save us from those bad decisions.

He was an assistant GM primarily in charge of the AHL. He had no control over NHL UFA signings. The price was a result of how horrible that contract was, not the GM.
We likely go after Tavares and trade Kadri after his second suspension, no matter who the GM is, but the more likely outcome if we didn't is: we miss the chance to propel our team into the upper-echelon, takes steps back, our center depth is a joke, Kadri gets suspended every playoffs and sees his value plummet even further as we lose even worse in the playoffs, and we eventually overpay some 30+ year old middle-tier center long-term to play 2C.

His grandfather had coached the team 44 years prior, and his dad had interned, but the idea that he got the job on anything but his own abilities isn't really supported by anything.

And again, I don't really care what the Greyhounds did over a decade ago anyway. I care about what the Leafs do, and what the GMs do when they're here.

Just like any winning team, the Marlies had multiple contributors to their eventual success, but to say that he had nothing to do with it is inaccurate and doesn't change that he had AHL-winning GM on his resume. We didn't have "nothing but bad decisions" previously, and that's why we were able to build and maintain a top tier team through some very difficult situations.
Here is the breakdown of our roster:
Burke - Rielly (re-signed by Dubas)
Nonis - Nylander (re-signed by Dubas)
Lou - Matthews (re-signed by Dubas), Liljegren (re-signed by Dubas), Woll (re-signed by Dubas)
Dubas - Tavares, Marner, Jarnkrok, Knies, Robertson, McMann, Brodie, McCabe, Giordano, Timmins, Holmberg (re-signed by Treliving), Kampf (re-signed by Treliving), Samsonov (re-signed by Treiving)
Treliving - Bertuzzi, Domi, Reaves, Jones, Benoit, Gregor, Klingberg (LTIR)

Our best contracts are a result of Dubas, and while Treliving did well with the cheap deals (Holmberg, Jones, Benoit, Gregor), outside of Domi, the significant pieces signed last offseason have ranged from disappointing to disaster (Bertuzzi, Klingberg, Reaves, Kampf, Samsonov), the lack of cohesive mix has played out as expected, we're left with holes, and that's the real reason we've taken a step back so far, not prior asset drain/cap mismanagement, or because we're finally getting ELC contributions (lol).

Am I reading this correctly that you are blaming Tre for Samsonov being shit? As if Dubas would not have signed him to at LEAST a 1yr deal if not more...

 

[Phion Keneuf]

C-