Post-Game Talk: Leafs give one away to the Wings - Lose 4-2

[Nineteen67]

Leafs spend the same on depth and D as Florida, please tell me why they have depth.

You won't.

When they saw their team was going in the wrong direction management made some wise decision and rectified the problems. The Leafs have been so poorly managed the past eight years that they’re stuck in the 10-16 range.

 

[Racer88]

Leafs spend the same on depth and D as Florida, please tell me why they have depth.

You won't.

First off there is no need to add the You won’t comment. It makes you sound weak.
If this is true then they must have a better GM then either Dubas or Treliving.
Secondly if they are not paying their 4 top forwards or any 4 players over 50% of the cap and are paying their depth the exact same, where does the missing money go because I’m pretty sure they spend to the cap same as us.
I look forward to your comprehensive answer

 

[ACC1224]

Leafs have 4 of the top 12 highest paid players in the league.

So how can they struggle to score more than 2 goals a game?

Last 5 games results

View attachment 945707

Goaltending and system is keeping them in games but Leafs offense is broken and their top heavy spending on just 4 forwards is not delivering a decent bang for their cap buck and its hurting bottom 6 depth.

If this were the playoffs now Leafs would be struggling to stay alive,

Why don’t you project out the two highest paid players stats and see what you come up with?

 

[notDatsyuk]

He has been just fine. He has had games where he completely takes over and games where he is a bit more quiet but overall he is 1 of only 2 guys this season who have provided consistent offence.

His biggest problem seems to be that he keeps setting up people who miss the net.

His goals are up but assists are down, despite his setting people up more than ever.

Not blaming his linemates, but there have been a lot of glorious chances missed.

 

[notbias]

First off there is no need to add the You won’t comment. It makes you sound weak.

Mess has never responded, no clue why you are defending him, he posts the same thing over and over and then disappears.

Why do you even care?

If this is true then they must have a better GM then either Dubas or Treliving.

Maybe... they picked up a bunch of depth for cheap.

Everyone wants the new shiny toes, they won by picking up trash.

Dubas tried this and it didn't work,

Treliving, I am convinced he just picks the biggest names, it has been two free agencies in a row where he has done this.

Secondly if they are not paying their 4 top forwards or any 4 players over 50% of the cap and are paying their depth the exact same, where does the missing money go because I’m pretty sure they spend to the cap same as us.

Goaltenders exist... their goaltenders are making $15 million...

They are spending the same outside of top 4 forwards and goaltenders as we are.

I look forward to your comprehensive answer

Hilarious reading your first sentence and then this one...

Did you forget you tried to start the post all high and mighty?

I look forward to your comprehensive answer.

 

[Stephen]

Leafs have 4 of the top 12 highest paid players in the league.

So how can they struggle to score more than 2 goals a game?

Last 5 games results

View attachment 945707

Goaltending and system is keeping them in games but Leafs offense is broken and their top heavy spending on just 4 forwards is not delivering a decent bang for their cap buck and its hurting bottom 6 depth.

If this were the playoffs now Leafs would be struggling to stay alive,

The Leafs offensive woes starts and ends with Auston Matthews having an injury plagued, down year where he doesn't look healthy, interested, well conditioned. He's simultaneously not scoring at the rate at which he used to, plus he doesn't have the playmaking ability to elevate those around him while he's dealing with whatever health reasons.

People used to talk about Matthews vs McDavid and we can all concede the horse is out of the barn on that one. But next tier down? Nathan Mackinnon has 50 points on the year, and Leon Draisaitl has 45. I remind people we pay Matthews the highest salary in the league, and the expectation is hockey at that level... so we're basically down 25-30 points of production for whatever reason. You add those totals up to our 87 goals on the year, that gets you up to the 112-117 goal for range. That should be top 3 in the league. Right now we took a 100 plus point, near 70 goal man and replaced him with a 0.96 PPG guy, which is also where Tage Thompson and Mason Marchment are at right now.

 

[thewave]

You know that there are more than two lines, right?

The team chemistry wasn't good beforehand either. Everyone was saying split them up.

 

[notbias]

The team chemistry wasn't good beforehand either. Everyone was saying split them up.

If everyone was saying it, it must be true.

We have a bunch of lines that change from game to game, why would the chemistry be good?

 

[thewave]

If everyone was saying it, it must be true.

We have a bunch of lines that change from game to game, why would the chemistry be good?

But the actual results are proving it right in front of your face? Like it's actually reverted to the point where people are making the same argument after witnessing the two apart for 10 games or whatever. There are actual losses and similar struggles

 

[notbias]

But the actual results are proving it right in front of your face? Like it's actually reverted to the point where people are making the same argument after witnessing the two apart for 10 games or whatever. There are actual losses and similar struggles

We have 8 years of seeing them together and apart, the best years we've had as a team have been with them together.

Sorry if 5 games doesn't erase 600.

They should try different lines, but the notion that somehow this team is failing because of MM/AM being together doesn't make sense.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Go to the F*%#ing NET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is why we shouldn’t extend Marner. They are still the same team they have always been. Sure he was dancing but in the playoffs this will get old fast and we will continue to be one series and done.

Honestly I think this team needs a pure hockey trade like Marner for a first pairing D man. Fox would be ideal. Great PM DMan who can manage the PP. Unfortunately Marner likely wouldn’t oblige the team if they told him we wanted to move on.

If you were the Rangers' GM would you trade Fox for Marner?

 

[darrylsittler27]

We have 8 years of seeing them together and apart, the best years we've had as a team have been with them together.

Sorry if 5 games doesn't erase 600.

They should try different lines, but the notion that somehow this team is failing because of MM/AM being together doesn't make sense.

So ,what's our record since Mathews got back?

 

[GoonieFace]

If you were the Rangers' GM would you trade Fox for Marner?

The Rangers would in a heartbeat. I wouldn’t do that trade though, Fox is trash

 

[Stephen]

We have 8 years of seeing them together and apart, the best years we've had as a team have been with them together.

Sorry if 5 games doesn't erase 600.

They should try different lines, but the notion that somehow this team is failing because of MM/AM being together doesn't make sense.

History tells us Matthews and Marner shouldn't always be together. The recipe goes stale and everything short circuits and you need to pull them apart for a time. The Nashville comeback period shouldn't mean you glue them together permanently.

 

[notbias]

So ,what's our record since Mathews got back?

Did you miss the part of 600 games?

Do the math of them together and apart and we can talk.

 

[Stephen]

The Rangers would in a heartbeat. I wouldn’t do that trade though, Fox is trash

Fox is overrated. Don't like his skating ability. He has nothing on Q. Hughes and Makar.

 

[notbias]

History tells us Matthews and Marner shouldn't always be together. The recipe goes stale and everything short circuits and you need to pull them apart for a time. The Nashville comeback period shouldn't mean you glue them together permanently.

Can you do the math of their record together and apart and then get back to me?

Right now this is just an opinion.

I know we do better in the playoffs with them together, that is a fact.

 

[Stephen]

Did you miss the part of 600 games?

Do the math of them together and apart and we can talk.

When you calm down, you might remember Matthews and Marner didn't really play together for the first few years of their career at all. Matthews was with Hyman and Nylander, and sometimes with randoms on makeshift lines, Marner was the baby on the JVR and Bozak line and later as Tavares' winger. And the Leafs had success in that configuration. Matthews-Marner was a Keefe era concession from 2019-20 onwards.

 

[Racer88]

Simple short answer……Dubas sucks. Long answer, it’s the wrong mix and the whole doesn’t equal the sum of the parts


Truly great players convert…….the rest create chances………and fancy stats

Delete

 

[notbias]

When you calm down, you might remember Matthews and Marner didn't really play together for the first few years of their career at all. Matthews was with Hyman and Nylander, and sometimes with randoms on makeshift lines, Marner was the baby on the JVR and Bozak line and later as Tavares' winger. And the Leafs had success in that configuration. Matthews-Marner was a Keefe era concession from 2019-20 onwards.

Calm down? You don't need to try to assign feelings to me because you lack factual information and presenting it as such.

So, our best seasons were with Matthews/Marner together, this helps my point.

 

[Stephen]

Can you do the math of their record together and apart and then get back to me?

Right now this is just an opinion.

I know we do better in the playoffs with them together, that is a fact.

I'll let you do the math, since you don't seem to remember Matthews and Marner didn't play together from 2016-17 to 2019-20 but keep quoting 600 games.

 

[Racer88]

Mess has never responded, no clue why you are defending him, he posts the same thing over and over and then disappears.

Why do you even care?



Maybe... they picked up a bunch of depth for cheap.

Everyone wants the new shiny toes, they won by picking up trash.

Dubas tried this and it didn't work,

Treliving, I am convinced he just picks the biggest names, it has been two free agencies in a row where he has done this.



Goaltenders exist... their goaltenders are making $15 million...

They are spending the same outside of top 4 forwards and goaltenders as we are.



Hilarious reading your first sentence and then this one...

Did you forget you tried to start the post all high and mighty?

I look forward to your comprehensive answer.

My comprehensive answer is simple. I totally missed that you were responding to mess. I was multi tasking while reading it.
My bad

 

[notbias]

I'll let you do the math, since you don't seem to remember Matthews and Marner didn't play together from 2016-17 to 2019-20 but keep quoting 600 games.

We have examples of them together and apart, this is not hard... That is how you come to 600 games...

You need a reference to them being together, this is grade one stuff.

My comprehensive answer is simple. I totally missed that you were responding to mess. I was multi tasking while reading it.
My bad

Haha, fair.

The only people who don't respond when presented with facts are him and Antropovsky.

I don't even care if they split up AM/MM or trade all of them or anything, as long as the team is better, I just don't think a blanket statement that AM/MM together is bad is set in reality, they've had more team success with them together.

 

[Stephen]

We have examples of them together and apart, this is not hard... That is how you come to 600 games...

You need a reference to them being together, this is grade one stuff.

They didn’t play together as a duo for the first 3.5 seasons in the NHL so you might want to re-evaluate your “600 games” when you’re finished bouncing off the wall.

 

[DutchHockeyGuy]

At least McMann looked ok in his first game back.