Proposal: Leafs-Ducks

[lindholmie]

It looks good framed like that. But, how about this..

A prospect that might not make the top-20 of the Leafs prospect pool and a defenseman that suffered an injury and missed most of last season and in the games he played he struggled. Which one do the Leafs get, that guy or the one who looked like he was becoming a top-4 dman. It's a risk because he's signed for 5 years. In exchange for a top-6 center signed under reasonable money and term.

Obviously the the leafs are stacked prospect wise since they're a rebuilding team. Nattinan is the ducks 3rd best forward prospect. He had 71 points in 52 games in the OHL which is great especially for a late second round pick. Plus depres is young and has proven to be a top 4 defensemen. Yeah there is a risk but you're only giving up a 3rd line center lmao

 

[Magic Man]

Obviously the the leafs are stacked prospect wise since they're a rebuilding team. Nattinan is the ducks 3rd best forward prospect. He had 71 points in 52 games in the OHL which is great especially for a late second round pick. Plus depres is young and has proven to be a top 4 defensemen. Yeah there is a risk but you're only giving up a 3rd line center lmao

The Leafs scoring the equivalent of a couple 2nd rd. picks while taking back no salary, similar to the returns of Shaw and Eller this summer would be a fair estimate on Bozak's value. They're younger, but he's been much more productive.

Nattinen was a late 2nd. So, he's a substitute for one.

Despres would be more valuable if his season had gone better. But, he can't be worth much right now. An interesting gamble, he can be exactly what they need or the piece that get's in the way of getting that piece.

 

[Nordic*]

Will Johnsson ever be a full time NHL:er, and if so, will be ever sniff the top six of any team?

Answer 1: Perhaps, but not likely.

Answer 2: No, that chance is slim to none.


Anaheim is looking for a top-6 center or LW, preferbly a center. Not a third-liner + 2 prospects who will likely never be top-6.

How about Nylander?

 

[Nithoniniel]

Will Johnsson ever be a full time NHL:er, and if so, will be ever sniff the top six of any team?

Answer 1: Perhaps, but not likely.

Answer 2: No, that chance is slim to none.


Anaheim is looking for a top-6 center or LW, preferbly a center. Not a third-liner + 2 prospects who will likely never be top-6.

How about Nylander?

Well, he is a prospect so that chance is always small. But I feel like you undersell Johnson (and Kapanen) a bit. Statistical comparisons seem to be very favorable for him.

I agree that if Anaheim makes a move, it'll be for an established cost-controlled forward piece that can make a difference right away.

 

[lindholmie]

The Leafs scoring the equivalent of a couple 2nd rd. picks while taking back no salary, similar to the returns of Shaw and Eller this summer would be a fair estimate on Bozak's value. They're younger, but he's been much more productive.

Nattinen was a late 2nd. So, he's a substitute for one.

Despres would be more valuable if his season had gone better. But, he can't be worth much right now. An interesting gamble, he can be exactly what they need or the piece that get's in the way of getting that piece.

Lmao you hope a second has a good a season as nattinan. Depres is easily worth a first

 

[Magic Man]

Lmao you hope a second has a good a season as nattinan. Depres is easily worth a first

Replace Nattinen with the 2nd from the Andersen trade. I'm sure Hunter would take the challenge of finding a better talent than Nattinen in the 2nd.

There is no way Despres scores a 1st rd. pick after the season he just had and the term he has without bad money going to Anaheim.

 

[Sojourn]

The Leafs scoring the equivalent of a couple 2nd rd. picks while taking back no salary, similar to the returns of Shaw and Eller this summer would be a fair estimate on Bozak's value. They're younger, but he's been much more productive.

Nattinen was a late 2nd. So, he's a substitute for one.

Despres would be more valuable if his season had gone better. But, he can't be worth much right now. An interesting gamble, he can be exactly what they need or the piece that get's in the way of getting that piece.

That's not really how it works. Nattinen wasn't just drafted. His value isn't strictly that of a draft pick anymore. It's heavily influenced by what he has accomplished since he was drafted, and he's been good. It's the same as if he had had a poor season, in that his value could decline.

As for Despres, that's a fair concern. But given what Despres has shown, it isn't wise to sell low on him, and that's what you're proposing Anaheim does.

In fact, that's what you're proposing Anaheim does for both players. You're proposing they sell low on a 19 year old prospect even while his stock is on the rise, and a player who had a concussion last year, despite him having shown top 4 play. This seems more like an attempt to fleece the Ducks than it does an attempt to make a fair trade.

Replace Nattinen with the 2nd from the Andersen trade. I'm sure Hunter would take the challenge of finding a better talent than Nattinen in the 2nd.

There is no way Despres scores a 1st rd. pick after the season he just had and the term he has without bad money going to Anaheim.

Because Toronto has had such success finding gems in the 2nd round?

 

[Magic Man]

That's not really how it works. Nattinen wasn't just drafted. His value isn't strictly that of a draft pick anymore. It's heavily influenced by what he has accomplished since he was drafted, and he's been good. It's the same as if he had had a poor season, in that his value could decline.

As for Despres, that's a fair concern. But given what Despres has shown, it isn't wise to sell low on him, and that's what you're proposing Anaheim does.

In fact, that's what you're proposing Anaheim does for both players. You're proposing they sell low on a 19 year old prospect even while his stock is on the rise, and a player who had a concussion last year, despite him having shown top 4 play. This seems more like an attempt to fleece the Ducks than it does an attempt to make a fair trade.


Because Toronto has had such success finding gems in the 2nd round?

I'm proposing the Ducks move some of the log-jam at D by transferring that money to the forward position where it's needed. The contract is a lot is easier for the Ducks to manoeuvre going forward. 2 years is a lot easier to digest then 5, especially when you don't know what you're getting in Despres.

Toronto has only been under new management for the past few drafts. It is far to soon to tell how players drafted under their tenure will do at the pro level.

They have been able to accumulate lots of talented prospects in that time, though. So much so, that even if Nattinen is seen as important piece in Anaheim, he'd really just be one of many good prospects in the Leafs pool. They could use some center depth in the pool past the big guns and are moving Bozak in my initial proposal which is why I thought to ask for him specifically.

 

[lindholmie]

I'm proposing the Ducks move some of the log-jam at D by transferring that money to the forward position where it's needed. The contract is a lot is easier for the Ducks to manoeuvre going forward. 2 years is a lot easier to digest then 5, especially when you don't know what you're getting in Despres.

Toronto has only been under new management for the past few drafts. It is far to soon to tell how players drafted under their tenure will do at the pro level.

They have been able to accumulate lots of talented prospects in that time, though. So much so, that even if Nattinen is seen as important piece in Anaheim, he'd really just be one of many good prospects in the Leafs pool. They could use some center depth in the pool past the big guns and are moving Bozak in my initial proposal which is why I thought to ask for him specifically.

the leafs are also tanking while the ducks are always at the top of the standings. so obviously the leafs picks are high. but the ducks finding late round gems like montour, nattinan, manson, vatanen and others are very important.

 

[Currysux*]

Obviously the the leafs are stacked prospect wise since they're a rebuilding team. Nattinan is the ducks 3rd best forward prospect. He had 71 points in 52 games in the OHL which is great especially for a late second round pick. Plus depres is young and has proven to be a top 4 defensemen. Yeah there is a risk but you're only giving up a 3rd line center lmao

Yeah pump up your guy while downplaying the other LOL. Despres played one good season as a top 4, he came back to earth this year whether it was injuries or not that contract is a risk. He may be that top 4 dmen again but theres a good chance he stays at what he has been for the majority of his career. Bozak has had multiple seasons at 2C production even without Kessel. Do you think Rakell is a thirdliner? Because his production is less than Bozaks. Nattinen is an average prospect. Almost every team has multiple prospects better than him. Stop playing him off like hes going to be a star player just because he was picked late.

 

[lindholmie]

Yeah pump up your guy while downplaying the other LOL. Despres played one good season as a top 4, he came back to earth this year whether it was injuries or not that contract is a risk. He may be that top 4 dmen again but theres a good chance he stays at what he has been for the majority of his career. Bozak has had multiple seasons at 2C production even without Kessel. Do you think Rakell is a thirdliner? Because his production is less than Bozaks. Nattinen is an average prospect. Almost every team has multiple prospects better than him. Stop playing him off like hes going to be a star player just because he was picked late.

Yeah rakell is a 3c lmao depres played on the top pairing the year the ducks took the Blackhawks to the WCF. Bozak would be behind Kesler and getzlaf. He would be used as a 3C. The ducks trading one of their best forward prospect and selling low on a young defensemen is terrible for them

 

[Currysux*]

Yeah rakell is a 3c lmao depres played on the top pairing the year the ducks took the Blackhawks to the WCF. Bozak would be behind Kesler and getzlaf. He would be used as a 3C. The ducks trading one of their best forward prospect and selling low on a young defensemen is terrible for them

Getzla would be a 3C in Pittspurgh, that doesnt mean he is a 3C. Like I said Despred has had 1 good year, that doesnt make him a legit top 4 dman. Just because Nattinen is the Ducks best forward prospect that doesnt make other teams value him even more.

 

[lindholmie]

Getzla would be a 3C in Pittspurgh, that doesnt mean he is a 3C. Like I said Despred has had 1 good year, that doesnt make him a legit top 4 dman. Just because Nattinen is the Ducks best forward prospect that doesnt make other teams value him even more.

His value is important to the ducks. That's literally what I'm saying lmao. Why give up an important piece to a weak forward prospect pool for someone who will be used as a 3c?

 

[biturbo19]

The asking price on Fowler at the draft was widely reported as a Top-10 pick. Not some spare parts and an okayish winger prospect.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

The asking price on Fowler at the draft was widely reported as a Top-10 pick. Not some spare parts and an okayish winger prospect.

Both prospects are some the leafs best js. Deal is really bad for ducks still.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Ducks have Getzlaf and Kesler as their top 2 centers, why would they pay a bunch of money for Bozak to play 3rd line minutes when they can put Rakell there against softer matchups?

Not saying your value is bad, but it makes zero sense for Anaheim to acquire a high dollar 3rd liner..

 

[Kamiccolo]

The asking price on Fowler at the draft was widely reported as a Top-10 pick. Not some spare parts and an okayish winger prospect.

The fact that no deal was made shows that he isn't worth that. They can ask for whatever but teams won't pay it.

Hell Toronto can say Bozak is worth McDavid (He does aspire to play like him after all ) doesn't mean they'll get that in return.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

More like

JvR (50% retention)
for
Fowler

Add small pluses if needed. That works for both sides.

What's with HF thinking JVR requires retention? It's bizarre. The guy has one of the best contracts in the league, he's the last player that needs retention. The Leafs could land alot more than Fowler for JVR at 50%, let's not kid ourselves here. Straight up its a pretty even deal, @ 50% retention it's highway robbery.

 

[mytduxfan*]

The fact that no deal was made shows that he isn't worth that. They can ask for whatever but teams won't pay it.

Hell Toronto can say Bozak is worth McDavid (He does aspire to play like him after all ) doesn't mean they'll get that in return.

We have no idea how those discussions went down, could just as easily have been BM turning down the offers. In which case, by your logic, Fowler would be worth way more then just a top 10 pick. All we know is that BUF and MTL were having discussions with BM and that 8th and 9th OA may or may not have been on the table. Who's to say that any offer came even close?

A top 10 pick is a nice piece, but it does nothing for us and I personally think Fowler is worth considerably more. He's been the #1 guy in ANA for a few seasons now and, whilst not a #1D, he's most definitely a top pairing guy. You don't move top pairing D-men for just a top 10 pick.

 

[mytduxfan*]

What's with HF thinking JVR requires retention? It's bizarre. The guy has one of the best contracts in the league, he's the last player that needs retention. The Leafs could land alot more than Fowler for JVR at 50%, let's not kid ourselves here. Straight up its a pretty even deal, @ 50% retention it's highway robbery.

He doesn't, but what's even more bizarre is that some TOR fans think retaining 50% of JVRs contract somehow inflates his value to that of Lindholm.

JVR for Fowler would require some retention simply because JVR's salary is 5M for the next 2 years and Fowler's is 4M. However, it would never be 50%.

 

[anezthes]

To ANA: Bozak + Kapanen + A. Johnson

To TOR: Fowler

No, AINEC.

 

[Kamiccolo]

We have no idea how those discussions went down, could just as easily have been BM turning down the offers. In which case, by your logic, Fowler would be worth way more then just a top 10 pick. All we know is that BUF and MTL were having discussions with BM and that 8th and 9th OA may or may not have been on the table. Who's to say that any offer came even close?

A top 10 pick is a nice piece, but it does nothing for us and I personally think Fowler is worth considerably more. He's been the #1 guy in ANA for a few seasons now and, whilst not a #1D, he's most definitely a top pairing guy. You don't move top pairing D-men for just a top 10 pick.

Every player has two values.

Their value around the NHL (As an example, Komarov might be worth a 2nd + good prospect)

and

The value to their team (Komarov provides leadership, grit, etc, and we need him. It's not worth it to us to part with him for a prospect + 2nd even if it's his value. We'd need as an example a mid first at least + prospect)

SO just because a team won't move a player below X value, doesn't mean that is their true value around the league.

 

[mytduxfan*]

Every player has two values.

Their value around the NHL (As an example, Komarov might be worth a 2nd + good prospect)

and

The value to their team (Komarov provides leadership, grit, etc, and we need him. It's not worth it to us to part with him for a prospect + 2nd even if it's his value. We'd need as an example a mid first at least + prospect)

SO just because a team won't move a player below X value, doesn't mean that is their true value around the league.

Agreed, but this doesn't address your belief that BUF and MTL refused to put up 8th and 9th OA for Fowler, which is exactly what you meant when you said:

The fact that no deal was made shows that he isn't worth that. They can ask for whatever but teams won't pay it.

It could have just as easily have been BM rejecting 8th and 9th OA for Fowler because it does nothing for us and doesn't address our immediate needs. We just don't know.

In addition, what you're suggesting is that Fowler's value around the NHL is his worth, and that's not true. If I offer up $4k for a car the owner values at 20k and the owner refuses my offer, that doesn't mean the car is only worth 4k because that's all I was willing to part with. Same goes for Fowler, just because BUF and MTL may have offered up 8th/9th OA for Fowler, if BM rejects that offer, that doesn't mean Fowler is only worth 8th/9th OA. The value of anything is the result of two competing principles, what the buyer is willing to pay and what the seller is willing to accept to complete a transaction. The only time we'll know what Fowler is truly worth, is when he's traded.

FWIW, I think Fowler is worth more then a top 10 pick and I wouldn't be surprised to hear that BM wasn't seriously considering 8th or 9th OA without a significant add, likely in the form of a roster that could contribute immediately.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

The fact that no deal was made shows that he isn't worth that. They can ask for whatever but teams won't pay it.

Hell Toronto can say Bozak is worth McDavid (He does aspire to play like him after all ) doesn't mean they'll get that in return.

No it doesn't. If you actually read those reports, they didn't even say what the Ducks asking price was. We were told that the Ducks were engaged in heavy discussions with those two teams and that the talks involved Fowler and their respective first rounders. That's all we have to work with, the idea that each of those teams passed on getting Fowler for their pick alone is pure speculation and nothing but.

 

[go4hockey]

How about SJ's 2nd instead of Johnson?

And then remove the other players you offered and add JVR and you have a good start. Your offer of extra parts for a top 4 defenseman is pure junk.