Leafs cap question

[JT AM da real deal]

Can they LTIR Lily and sign Reese to minimum and play opening night with 20? Seems like it works on Capfriendly. or maybe the are working on a deal for Jakob C and needed Sandin deal done 1st at right number. who knows? I think 1st 2023, Sandin and Kerfoot would do it right? It seems weird that all of a sudden Sandin settles.

 

[tmlfan98]

Even if all of our injuries were non-LTIR, I'm pretty sure the emergency exception rule is still in place.

 

[Mess]

Our aces in the hole are Sandin-Lily and Gio signed for the next 2 years and counting $3.6 against the cap.
Half our D for $3.6 and we are still up against it.
OOOOOF

That is why experts define Leafs situation as being in constant "Cap Hell ".

Paying 3 players $11 or more each comes a steep price to the rest of the roster.

However Leafs are finally doing this part right by using those bottom spots for drafted/developed players on cheaper offsetting contracts, as well as grizzled old vets on league minimum deals as the salary cap was intended,

 

[ToneDog]

We have the best carpologists in the league. I am confident they will have this figured out by the deadline.

Our aces in the hole are Sandin-Lily and Gio signed for the next 2 years and counting $3.6 against the cap.
Half our D for $3.6 and we are still up against it.
OOOOOF

Wouldn't be so bad if they won us a fricken closeout game.

 

[zeke]

Our aces in the hole are Sandin-Lily and Gio signed for the next 2 years and counting $3.6 against the cap.
Half our D for $3.6 and we are still up against it.
OOOOOF

Oof what?

 

[egd27]

Become compliant and then use Emergency Recall for a couple of games ?

Emergency conditions apply when a team “is reduced below the level of two goalkeepers, six defensemen and 12 forwards,” per the CBA.

A team must be able to provide proof of their emergency situation to the league when requested.

This means that even if a team has enough players to dress, say, seven defenseman and 11 forwards, as teams sometimes do by choice with a healthy roster during the season, it's still considered an emergency situation. If a team doesn't have enough players for four forward lines and three defense pairings, even if they have 18 total healthy skaters otherwise, it's an emergency situation.

 

[Mess]

Can they LTIR Lily and sign Reese to minimum and play opening night with 20? Seems like it works on Capfriendly. or maybe the are working on a deal for Jakob C and needed Sandin deal done 1st at right number. who knows? I think 1st 2023, Sandin and Kerfoot would do it right? It seems weird that all of a sudden Sandin settles.

Leafs are more likely to place Engvall ($2.25 mil) on LTIR to start the year and then sign ZAR as his replacement for the 1st month of the season. Then once Engvall returns send a player down or on waivers.

In terms of Jakob Chychrun, it would likely take one of Leafs young Dmen in return and mostly Sandin.. Leafs would be wise to try include the aging and often injured Muzzin in the deal going out along with picks and prospects.

 

[zeke]

Even if all of our injuries were non-LTIR, I'm pretty sure the emergency exception rule is still in place.

yep. and they probably have other tricks up their sleeves too.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Leafs are more likely to place Engvall ($2.25 mil) on LTIR to start the year and then sign ZAR as his replacement for the 1st month of the season. Then once Engvall returns send a player down or on waivers.

In terms of Jakob Chychrun, it would likely take one of Leafs young Dmen in return and mostly Sandin.. Leafs would be wise to try include the aging and often injured Muzzin in the deal going out along with picks and prospects.

Yes agreed but those are wet dreams .. Zona not looking for big $$ guys like Muzzy with term .. and Muzzy signed a team friendly deal to retire and raise his family here .. Kerfoot has 1 year left .. Sandin gives them an opportunity to maybe replace a top 4 guy thy are losing and da 1st

 

[andora]

Witf is with all these chychrun posts.. piss off..

 

[Mess]

Witf is with all these chychrun posts.. piss off..

Leafs are dealing with Salary Cap issues and need to become cap compliant before the regular season, So a potential Leafs trade is in the works.

However the reason he is being mentioned is because yesterday on That's hockey ... Leafs were named as one of the numerous teams that are interested In Jakob C as trade talks intensify.

Darren Dreger: There's no secret that Jakob Chychrun still wants out of the Arizona Coyotes, but the Arizona Coyotes still tell everybody that they're willing to be patient. Although what is clear now as the regular season is fast approaching is that the trade interest in Chychrun is once again intensifying. Some say that the Coyotes have softened to some degree at least in their expected return and are more willing now to take on a contract or contracts. Granted, you've got to have a first-round draft pick, you've got to have a prospect involved in all of this, so the ask is still high. Now some of the teams that are listed with interest include the Ottawa Senators, the Toronto Maple Leafs, the Edmonton Oilers, the Los Angeles Kings, the St. Louis Blues, the Columbus Blue Jackets and on and on it goes. However, it is a challenging one. Despite the quality of player and the contract, there's some cap hurdles that many of teams I just mentioned are going to have to overcome.

Dreger: There was a bit of panic setting in for the Toronto Maple Leafs, even during the game versus the Montreal Canadiens when two defencemen went down. I'm told that Leafs management was actually making calls around the National Hockey League inquiring about some defencemen who are still in camp on PTOs. So, no question, still trying to bolster the depth in that position.

Insider Trading: Who are the current suitors for Chychrun?​

 

[Mess]

Yes agreed but those are wet dreams .. Zona not looking for big $$ guys like Muzzy with term .. and Muzzy signed a team friendly deal to retire and raise his family here .. Kerfoot has 1 year left .. Sandin gives them an opportunity to maybe replace a top 4 guy thy are losing and da 1st

Muzzin in terms of trading away has a very friendly contract for teams with $$ issues and not Cap issues.

After Leafs picked up his signing bonus this year on July 1st he only has $2 mil in real salary for this year and only $4 mil next year. That would be great for a team like Arizona to absorb at a higher cap hit that is irrelevant when they play near the cap floor;.

Leafs could resolve their cap issues and LTIR issues potentially by dealing away his $5.625 mil cap hit for a lesser cost Dman.

 

[Notsince67]

Nice one. I thought a Holl move meant a 20 man roster and assumed it would be Kerfoot.

Doesn't leave much flexibility but looking now we collected quite a few absolute minimum contracts with Benn, Mete, Malgin, and Gaudette - probably running the same math.

Given we are not too worried about the regular season, it could still be a Kerfoot if they want more breathing room with 800k+ call ups, focusing on the trade deadline and eventual playoff roster.

Holl is addition by subtraction

 

[zeke]

Leafs are dealing with Salary Cap issues and need to become cap compliant before the regular season, So a potential Leafs trade is in the works.

However the reason he is being mentioned is because yesterday on That's hockey ... Leafs were named as one of the numerous teams that are interested In Jakob C as trade talks intensify.

Darren Dreger: There's no secret that Jakob Chychrun still wants out of the Arizona Coyotes, but the Arizona Coyotes still tell everybody that they're willing to be patient. Although what is clear now as the regular season is fast approaching is that the trade interest in Chychrun is once again intensifying. Some say that the Coyotes have softened to some degree at least in their expected return and are more willing now to take on a contract or contracts. Granted, you've got to have a first-round draft pick, you've got to have a prospect involved in all of this, so the ask is still high. Now some of the teams that are listed with interest include the Ottawa Senators, the Toronto Maple Leafs, the Edmonton Oilers, the Los Angeles Kings, the St. Louis Blues, the Columbus Blue Jackets and on and on it goes. However, it is a challenging one. Despite the quality of player and the contract, there's some cap hurdles that many of teams I just mentioned are going to have to overcome.

Dreger: There was a bit of panic setting in for the Toronto Maple Leafs, even during the game versus the Montreal Canadiens when two defencemen went down. I'm told that Leafs management was actually making calls around the National Hockey League inquiring about some defencemen who are still in camp on PTOs. So, no question, still trying to bolster the depth in that position.

Insider Trading: Who are the current suitors for Chychrun?​

seems like the wrong thread for this.

 

[kb]

Can they LTIR Lily and sign Reese to minimum and play opening night with 20? Seems like it works on Capfriendly. or maybe the are working on a deal for Jakob C and needed Sandin deal done 1st at right number. who knows? I think 1st 2023, Sandin and Kerfoot would do it right? It seems weird that all of a sudden Sandin settles.

A player isn't eligible for LTIR unless they will miss 10 regular season games and 24 days of the season. It has to be both.

 

[mistaclick]

Well the first problem is the player actually needs to be deemed eligible to be placed on LTIR, as in unfit to play for a long enough time. Not sure if any of our injured guys qualify for that. Muzzin certainly won’t, you can’t just “put someone on LTIR”. Even if we do we’ll need to be cap compliant once a player comes off LTIR, unless you’re in the playoffs as we have seen last couple years.

Someone has to be traded soon, either Holl/Kerf/Engvall. Muzz to ARI for Chych would be a dream scenario but won’t be happening, plus he’s well liked in the room so that’s no bueno. I say Holler is gone by season start with Sandman back.

 

[ACC1224]

Well the first problem is the player actually needs to be deemed eligible to be placed on LTIR, as in unfit to play for a long enough time. Not sure if any of our injured guys qualify for that. Muzzin certainly won’t, you can’t just “put someone on LTIR”. Even if we do we’ll need to be cap compliant once a player comes off LTIR, unless you’re in the playoffs as we have seen last couple years.

Someone has to be traded soon, either Holl/Kerf/Engvall. Muzz to ARI for Chych would be a dream scenario but won’t be happening, plus he’s well liked in the room so that’s no bueno. I say Holler is gone by season start with Sandman back.

If he wants out why would being liked in the room matter?

 

[mistaclick]

If he wants out why would being liked in the room matter?

I mean it wouldn’t matter to any fans but to the guys who actually play for the team, they might be disappointed seeing him go. I know him and Marner are close. I wouldn’t want any of my close mates to leave my team, although it “is a business”.

Same goes for Holl obviously but it’s easier to just ship him out for a pick compared to Muzzin’s situation.

 

[Mess]

Ask Mess!

Thanks, but they shouldn't need me to realize the solution isn't as simple as simply picking 20 players that fit under $82.5 mil and call it cap compliant.

Tavares, Engvall and Liljegren are all currently injured and will not be ready for opening day so if you included then in the max 20 players you got a problem.

Everybody should know the Leafs are not starting the season with 10 forwards + 5 Dmen and 2 goalies for 17 healthy players + 3 injured players players = 20 players total.

Somebody has to be dressed for those injured players, so you need 23 players ( 12 F + 8 D + 2 G + 3 injured) to start the year on the cap. 20 starters + 3 injured = 23 players.

Cap friendly shows the Leafs are PROJECTED CAP SPACE

: $0 (-$2,893,116

) which is just $106,884 short of $3 mil over at this time and they list 23 players for the reason above.

So you can't simply drop players to reduce that without compensating and factoring in the unavailable injured ones, by either replacing or using things like LTIR to achieve that.

 

[ACC1224]

I mean it wouldn’t matter to any fans but to the guys who actually play for the team, they might be disappointed seeing him go. I know him and Marner are close. I wouldn’t want any of my close mates to leave my team, although it “is a business”.

Same goes for Holl obviously but it’s easier to just ship him out for a pick compared to Muzzin’s situation.

By that logic wouldn't his teammates be disappointed that he asked to be moved?

 

[andora]

Leafs are dealing with Salary Cap issues and need to become cap compliant before the regular season, So a potential Leafs trade is in the works.

However the reason he is being mentioned is because yesterday on That's hockey ... Leafs were named as one of the numerous teams that are interested In Jakob C as trade talks intensify.

Darren Dreger: There's no secret that Jakob Chychrun still wants out of the Arizona Coyotes, but the Arizona Coyotes still tell everybody that they're willing to be patient. Although what is clear now as the regular season is fast approaching is that the trade interest in Chychrun is once again intensifying. Some say that the Coyotes have softened to some degree at least in their expected return and are more willing now to take on a contract or contracts. Granted, you've got to have a first-round draft pick, you've got to have a prospect involved in all of this, so the ask is still high. Now some of the teams that are listed with interest include the Ottawa Senators, the Toronto Maple Leafs, the Edmonton Oilers, the Los Angeles Kings, the St. Louis Blues, the Columbus Blue Jackets and on and on it goes. However, it is a challenging one. Despite the quality of player and the contract, there's some cap hurdles that many of teams I just mentioned are going to have to overcome.

Dreger: There was a bit of panic setting in for the Toronto Maple Leafs, even during the game versus the Montreal Canadiens when two defencemen went down. I'm told that Leafs management was actually making calls around the National Hockey League inquiring about some defencemen who are still in camp on PTOs. So, no question, still trying to bolster the depth in that position.

Insider Trading: Who are the current suitors for Chychrun?​

Ah ok

Dreger go away

 

[GrizzLeaf]

Feels like every season start is similar. We get our panties in a know about the cap and cap hell. Dubas and co. find a way to get under the cap. Leafs start the season as if nothing's wrong and we all forget about it until the next time it comes up. Rinse + repeat.

As an actual fan of the team, I let Dubas work the business end of things. It's worked fine so far

 

[mistaclick]

By that logic wouldn't his teammates be disappointed that he asked to be moved?

Naturally, but by that logic would he not want to be moved because of a problem in the locker room? Or with management which I’m sure his buddies would respect?

I’m sure it would be more like he’s asked to waive his NTC, which as I said about his situation being tricky, won’t happen, especially not for Arizona. Although moving that AAV for Chych would be a fever dream. Hence we will see Holl or Kerfoot leave the team soon, should be Holl

 

[zeke]

Let's break down the only two leafs current injuries that could possibly turn into LTIR stints at the moment.....


1. Opening Night Date?

One big question is what date counts as actual opening day towards the "24 days" minimum for LTIR purposes? I have no idea, but 3 possibilities:

Oct 7: opening night in prague
Oct 8: end of preseason
Oct 11: opening night in north america

Does anyone know?


2. LTIR minimums are 10gms and 24 days

Leafs play their 11th game on Nov 2, 27 days from Oct 7, 26 days from Oct 8, 23 days from Oct 11.

So basically, anyone on LTIR to start the season won't be able to play until at least game 11 on Nov 2 and possibly game 12 on Nov 5.


3. Tavares injury: "Minimum 3 weeks" as of Sep 27.

3 weeks only takes him to Oct 18th. If he's back in 3 weeks that's only 4 games missed, and a good 2-2.5 weeks short of the minimum 24 days.

Oblique injuries are notorious for lingering, so it's possible they could push it - but if he's on track to recovery on opening day i highly doubt that they put him on LTIR.


4. Liljegren Injury: "6 weeks" as of Sep 21.

Now i'm not sure whether Dubas meant 6 weeks as of Sep 21 or 6 weeks as of the date of surgery. But we don't know when surgery was and Dubas was probably talking from the date he was speaking on, so let's just say 6 weeks as of Sep 21.

6 weeks takes Lilly all the way to Nov 2, which is the date of Game 11, and somewhere between 23-27gms from the start of the season.

And, on top of that, core muscle injuries can linger as well. And even if Lilly is recovering well on opening night that's still only halfway through projected recovery so they won't want to rush him.

So I think the plan as of now is to LTIR Lilly for sure,

Lilly's LTIR is just enough to get us under the cap with a league minimum roster.

With enough room at least to let us freely pick which two bubble forwards make it.



5. Still doesn't solve the issue

That only buys us a few weeks. Once Lilly is back at the start of November they leafs will have to make a trade to fit him in.

Maybe by that time some other team will have had an injury that makes them more eager to offer up something better for Holl.

Or maybe we get another injury by then that can go on LTIR.

But at some point we likely have to make a trade.

 

[andora]

Let's break down the only two leafs current injuries that could possibly turn into LTIR stints at the moment.....


1. Opening Night Date?

One big question is what date counts as actual opening day towards the "24 days" minimum for LTIR purposes? I have no idea, but 3 possibilities:

Oct 7: opening night in prague
Oct 8: end of preseason
Oct 11: opening night in north america

Does anyone know?


2. LTIR minimums are 10gms and 24 days

Leafs play their 11th game on Nov 2, 27 days from Oct 7, 26 days from Oct 8, 23 days from Oct 11.

So basically, anyone on LTIR to start the season won't be able to play until at least game 11 on Nov 2 and possibly game 12 on Nov 5.


3. Tavares injury: "Minimum 3 weeks" as of Sep 27.

3 weeks only takes him to Oct 18th. If he's back in 3 weeks that's only 4 games missed, and a good 2-2.5 weeks short of the minimum 24 days.

Oblique injuries are notorious for lingering, so it's possible they could push it - but if he's on track to recovery on opening day i highly doubt that they put him on LTIR.


4. Liljegren Injury: "6 weeks" as of Sep 21.

Now i'm not sure whether Dubas meant 6 weeks as of Sep 21 or 6 weeks as of the date of surgery. But we don't know when surgery was and Dubas was probably talking from the date he was speaking on, so let's just say 6 weeks as of Sep 21.

6 weeks takes Lilly all the way to Nov 2, which is the date of Game 11, and somewhere between 23-27gms from the start of the season.

And, on top of that, core muscle injuries can linger as well. And even if Lilly is recovering well on opening night that's still only halfway through projected recovery so they won't want to rush him.

So I think the plan as of now is to LTIR Lilly for sure,

Lilly's LTIR is just enough to get us under the cap with a league minimum roster.

With enough room at least to let us freely pick which two bubble forwards make it.



5. Still doesn't solve the issue

That only buys us a few weeks. Once Lilly is back at the start of November they leafs will have to make a trade to fit him in.

Maybe by that time some other team will have had an injury that makes them more eager to offer up something better for Holl.

Or maybe we get another injury by then that can go on LTIR.

But at some point we likely have to make a trade.

Re opening night

I think it counts as opening night for everyone but the two teams going over can carry additionals at no penalty due to the situation

I seem to remember reading this somewhere