GDT: Leafs at Habs Pre-season Game #5 - Saturday, September 30

[supermann_98]

Will Cowan play for the World Junior team?

Too much politics in hockey Canada to know for sure, lots of talent too of course, but I think Minten and him both have a shot at the team

 

[Gilmour1996]

Can't help thinking back to when the Leafs should have kept the older Curtis McElhinney as a backup vs. the young up-and-comer Garret Sparks as a backup.

 

[francis246]

Will Cowan play for the World Junior team?

Too early to know, depends on how he does with London but I think he’s certainly making a case. I think Minten has also put himself back into the conversation. I hope both are on the WJC team. Hopefully a guy like Moldenhauer also has a spectacular freshman year at Michigan and gets on the radar as well kinda like Tverberg did and at least gets a camp invite. But he’s more of a long shot.

EDIT: I just checked Moldenhauer was on Canada’s U18 National team two springs ago. Which is a good sign for him to at least be looked at as a possible option for the WJC team since he’s been through a Hockey Canada program. So we could potentially have 3 guys on Team Canada at the WJC. But I still feel Minten and Cowan are more probable.

 

[SprDaVE]

Can't help thinking back to when the Leafs should have kept the older Curtis McElhinney as a backup vs. the young up-and-comer Garret Sparks as a backup.

You always keep the younger developing player. Keeping Sparks was the right move, keeping Woll is by far the best move as well.

But there's a big difference between McBackup and Jones in terms of value. McBackup had much better stats.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

I’m all for Developing a young guy like Woll

Woll is no longer the young guy, he's 25.

Ideally Sammy plays 50, Woll 30. Whoever gets hot starts the playoffs.

 

[tmlfan98]

You always keep the younger developing player. Keeping Sparks was the right move, keeping Woll is by far the best move as well.

But there's a big difference between McBackup and Jones in terms of value. McBackup had much better stats.

I partially agree, but there's also a key difference between the 2 situations. Pretty much every non-elite goalie is a systems goalie, and in the case of McBackup vs Sparks, we already knew that he fit the team's system at the time, while Sparks had only proven himself at the AHL level.

There is already SSS evidence that Woll fits the team's current system, while Jones just joined the organization and looked good in 1 preseason game. Woll is basically similar to McBackup in this sense, even though he's the younger of the 2 goalies.

 

[Sypher04]

Based on potential injuries may end up being able to hold onto all 3 at least to start

 

[Leaf Rocket]

For the goalie conundrum:

 

[hamzarocks]

You always keep the younger developing player. Keeping Sparks was the right move, keeping Woll is by far the best move as well.

But there's a big difference between McBackup and Jones in terms of value. McBackup had much better stats.

Sparks also was a lot worse/unproven in comparison to woll at the NHL level

His only stint at that point had been the tank year where he sucked terribly

Woll has had good stats in limited starts in 2022 and 2023 and was playing well in the playoffs for us vs the panthers.

Woll is a surer/more proven bet than Sparks was to be a good backup (20-25 game goalie) at the minimum as he has been trending up at the NHL level for a while now.

Jones is a great 3 but we realistically cant keep him as he gets claimed.

 

[kb]

Sparks also was a lot worse/unproven in comparison to woll at the NHL level

His only stint at that point had been the tank year where he sucked terribly

Woll has had good stats in limited starts in 2022 and 2023 and was playing well in the playoffs for us vs the panthers.

Woll is a surer/more proven bet than Sparks was to be a good backup (20-25 game goalie) at the minimum as he has been trending up at the NHL level for a while now.

Jones is a great 3 but we realistically cant keep him as he gets claimed.

Question:

How do you prove yourself at the NHL level without actually playing there? He won everything these was to win at the AHL level. He got a shutout in his NHL debut.

Hindsight makes posters feel smarter than they actually are.

 

[LeafSteel]

Martin Jones delivers!

What a performance. Kudos to the young guys. I thought they all did a good job.

But Martin Freakin' Jones stole the show.

A whopping 2.32 GSAx. I'm not saying the Leafs played a bad game. But if all you looked at was Corsi and Expected Goals Montreal won the game hands down.

Jones ate more rubber than you'd find in a case of chinese bubble tea.

A few teams are looking for a goaltender. Including Tampa. Might not be a bad idea trading him to them now while he's hot and extract the highest price possible while they are desperate.

Then when he comes back down to the real Jones we all know and love as the worst goalie in the league Tampa is out of the playoffs by American Thanksgiving.

Tampa and Boston missing the playoffs while Ottawa and Buffalo get in would be pretty awesome.

Go Leafs Go.

Who are you and what have you done with @TMLBlueandWhite ?????

 

[LeafSteel]

You always keep the younger developing player. Keeping Sparks was the right move, keeping Woll is by far the best move as well.

But there's a big difference between McBackup and Jones in terms of value. McBackup had much better stats.

Great post.

The situation is certainly reminiscent of when it was Sparks vs. McBackup, but your post is great for illustrating that it’s not an apples to apples scenario here.

I would love to keep Jones as our 3rd, but Woll is clearly our 2nd and could conceivably challenge Samsonov for staring goalie before Samsonov’s contract is even over.

Best case scenario now is for Jones to continue to shine and Treliving turn him into a draft capital from whatever team offers the most, including Tampa.

 

[hamzarocks]

Question:

How do you prove yourself at the NHL level without actually playing there? He won everything these was to win at the AHL level. He got a shutout in his NHL debut.

Hindsight makes posters feel smarter than they actually are.

Sparks sucked throughout his initial rookie tenure. He was below a .900 despite that shutout

He then played on stacked AHL teams with nylander/kap/hyman/brown/lilijgren etc etc on the team over next few years and won a lot of games with good stats but nothing to suggest he was a young elite promising goalie

The leafs didnt want him back as they didnt have any confidence in his abilities. Lou lam didnt go to him despite our goalies not being great in 2016 and 2017 outside of andersen

Reimer, Bernier, Enroth, the old caps goalie who got a PTO but sucked (Neuvert?)

Sparks wasn't in the discussion to be a leaf until dubas came on board and made the decision which proved to be a bad one.

Dubas was the only one high on Sparks in the organization, not Lou, babcock, Shanny, Hunter or anyone else.

Sparks proved to be an utter failure at the NHL level for multiple organizations.

It was just Du as trying to be the smartest guy in the room and falling flat like he often did as the leafs GM

 

[LeafSteel]

Sparks sucked throughout his initial rookie tenure. He was below a .900 despite that shutout

He then played on stacked AHL teams with nylander/kap/hyman/brown/lilijgren etc etc on the team over next few years and won a lot of games with good stats but nothing to suggest he was a young elite promising goalie

The leafs didnt want him back as they didnt have any confidence in his abilities. Lou lam didnt go to him despite our goalies not being great in 2016 and 2017 outside of andersen

Reimer, Bernier, Enroth, the old caps goalie who got a PTO but sucked (Neuvert?)

Sparks wasn't in the discussion to be a leaf until dubas came on board and made the decision which proved to be a bad one.

Dubas was the only one high on Sparks in the organization, not Lou, babcock, Shanny, Hunter or anyone else.

Sparks proved to be an utter failure at the NHL level for multiple organizations.

It was just Du as trying to be the smartest guy in the room and falling flat like he often did as the leafs GM

For all the adulation that Dubas gets for what he did well, he also had glaring blind spots, specifically in his assessments of goalies and bringing in a true RHD when he had the chance.

For the life of him, he just could not hit on anything at those 2 positions.

 

[kb]

For all the adulation that Dubas gets for what he did well, he also had glaring blind spots, specifically in his assessments of goalies and bringing in a true RHD when he had the chance.

For the life of him, he just could not hit on anything at those 2 positions.

And then when finally given autonomy, he lands EK.

Are we considering Samsonov a bust? What goalies have been stellar year after year that was realistically attainable and didn't have question marks? Genuinely curious here.

 

[LeafSteel]

And then when finally given autonomy, he lands EK

Going to disagree on this one.

EK isn’t a player I wanted, and I don’t believe for a second Dubas couldn’t make trades on a day to day basis. I think he was just stopped from making poor trades.

Either way, neither of us will be able to prove either position, so I will leave it at that.

 

[kb]

Going to disagree on this one.

EK isn’t a player I wanted, and I don’t believe for a second Dubas couldn’t make trades on a day to day basis. I think he was just stopped from making poor trades.

Either way, neither of us will be able to prove either position, so I will leave it at that.

And obviously, I disagree because the main reason he left is that he didn't have autonomy to do what he wanted, and there is zero proof of your statement, which is nothing more than a guess.

 

[LeafSteel]

And obviously, I disagree because the main reason he left is that he didn't have autonomy to do what he wanted, and there is zero proof of your statement, which is nothing more than a guess.

Same can be said for everything you just said, which is why I said I was going to leave at agree to disagree.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Makes me think of Amirov. So sad. RIP Rodion :-(

Imagine if that pick had been Guhle, Schneider, Mercer or if Jarvis had fallen just one more spot? We'd be in such a different place.

 

[kb]

Same can be said for everything you just said, which is why I said I was going to leave at agree to disagree.

Yup.

Brendan Shanahan Is the Toronto Maple Leafs Biggest Problem

'Shanahan allegedly prevented a few trades from happening during Dubas’ time with the Leafs. While discussing a new contract between the team and Dubas, Dubas was apparently seeking more control. Shanahan then decided it was time to let Dubas go and hire a new GM. The search for a new GM is underway.'

Imagine if that pick had been Guhle, Schneider, Mercer or if Jarvis had fallen just one more spot? We'd be in such a different place.

The first 2 wouldn't change things much IMO.

Not the greatest thing to say though - we have no idea how good Amirov could have been. Maybe he would have been the best of the bunch, and it's probably a little too soon to speculate on how things would have been different if they picked another player.

 

[LeafSteel]

Yup.

Brendan Shanahan Is the Toronto Maple Leafs Biggest Problem

'Shanahan allegedly prevented a few trades from happening during Dubas’ time with the Leafs. While discussing a new contract between the team and Dubas, Dubas was apparently seeking more control. Shanahan then decided it was time to let Dubas go and hire a new GM. The search for a new GM is underway.'


The first 2 wouldn't change things much IMO.

Not the greatest thing to say though - we have no idea how good Amirov could have been. Maybe he would have been the best of the bunch, and it's probably a little too soon to speculate on how things would have been different if they picked another player.

Yup, an opinion piece by noted Dubas admirer James Mirtle, who still can’t stop crying over Dubas.

Still an opinion, this time quoted by a media hack. Mirtle can’t prove anything definitively anymore than you or me.

If I heard from someone with a shred of legitimacy like Bob McKenzie, I’d be inclined to listen but Bob wouldn’t come up with anything like this either because it’s essentially unprovable and Bob doesn’t do conjecture like this. It’s why he’s legitimate in a way Mirtle isn’t and won’t be.

Like I said, let’s leave it at this.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Yup.

Brendan Shanahan Is the Toronto Maple Leafs Biggest Problem

'Shanahan allegedly prevented a few trades from happening during Dubas’ time with the Leafs. While discussing a new contract between the team and Dubas, Dubas was apparently seeking more control. Shanahan then decided it was time to let Dubas go and hire a new GM. The search for a new GM is underway.'


The first 2 wouldn't change things much IMO.

Not the greatest thing to say though - we have no idea how good Amirov could have been. Maybe he would have been the best of the bunch, and it's probably a little too soon to speculate on how things would have been different if they picked another player.

Isn't it also rumoured that Dubas wanted to trade Knies and Shanny vetoed that? Are you really going to complain about having someone above Dubas thinking more about the long term needs of the organization as a whole? Because it is going to be nice having Knies in the top 6 for the next half decade. That isn't me shitting on Dubas either, just reality.

 

[LeafSteel]

Isn't it also rumoured that Dubas wanted to trade Knies and Shanny vetoed that? Are you really going to complain about having someone above Dubas thinking more about the long term needs of the organization as a whole? Because it is going to be nice having Knies in the top 6 for the next half decade. That isn't me shitting on Dubas either, just reality.

Every GM has someone over their heads, that’s why the President of Hockey Operations exists, and we aren’t the only NHL team to employ one.

Toronto was incredibly aggressive at the trade deadline this year, with the O’Reilly trade at the top.

Based on some of the Dubas fan opinions, I’d be curious to know which bold trades Dubas should get credit for and which ones Shanahan, he of the intrusive and controlling M.O., should get credit for.

All I see is blame for Shanahan and credit for Dubas, where I’m pretty sure the truth lies somewhere in between.

I won’t bother with it anymore though, as the entire argument is circular. Everyone will speak from opinion, based on what they believe, and nothing more.

I can appreciate what Dubas did and I can recognize where he failed. At the end of the day he’s gone, and I’m still cheering for the Toronto Maple Leafs and I don’t give a damn what Dubas does anywhere else.

I’m actually quite sick of hearing about him. He’s gone and we are moving forward without him. He did what’s best for him, and we will do the same.

Cheers.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Isn't it also rumoured that Dubas wanted to trade Knies and Shanny vetoed that? Are you really going to complain about having someone above Dubas thinking more about the long term needs of the organization as a whole? Because it is going to be nice having Knies in the top 6 for the next half decade. That isn't me shitting on Dubas either, just reality.

I don't think so. As far as I remember, Dubas wanted to move Mrazek to Chicago. Chicago offered a deal involving taking Mrazek along with Knies for Marc Andre Fleury. Leafs rejected. Deal got leaked, Dubas was mad trade talks got in the news. Never was reported that the Leafs actually offered Knies or had any intention of moving him.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I don't think so. As far as I remember, Dubas wanted to move Mrazek to Chicago. Chicago offered a deal involving taking Mrazek along with Knies for Marc Andre Fleury. Leafs rejected. Deal got leaked, Dubas was mad trade talks got in the news. Never was reported that the Leafs actually offered Knies or had any intention of moving him.

It would have been Hagel and Fluery for Knies a 1st and Mrazek I think.