And another 1000 posts come to nothing.
"I don't know if (stripping C) is a solution. I think it's a cop-out, to a certain degree an easy way out."
SHANAHAN
"I want to help enhance the player and leader that Dion is." SHANAHAN #Leafs
I hear yea but i wouldn't expect him to say anything of substance in the media . I'm always hopeful something slips out but i'm usually disappointed .
We'll have to wait and see what develops between the end of the playoffs and after the first week of ufa season . That'll should give us a good view of the direction our mang team is going to take .
Im not sure I want to go full out rebuild... But if we do, I would do something along the lines of
1) Trade Phaneuf for Yakupov
2) Trade Kessel for Seth Jones
Bernier, JVR, Jones, Rielly, Yakupov, Kadri, Gardiner, (whoever we pick 8th) would be a decent core.
Then we would probably also finish poorly next season getting another quality pick
Im not sure I want to go full out rebuild... But if we do, I would do something along the lines of
1) Trade Phaneuf for Yakupov
2) Trade Kessel for Seth Jones
Bernier, JVR, Jones, Rielly, Yakupov, Kadri, Gardiner, (whoever we pick 8th) would be a decent core.
Then we would probably also finish poorly next season getting another quality pick
I’m fine one way or the other with keeping or trading Dion.
He’s a great player. The first half of this season was the best hockey he has ever played- an absolute force. He’s peaked physically but he’s becoming a more intelligent player. He just can’t be asked to do absolutely everything. He’s not the best defenseman in the league but I still think he’s top 15, quite easily. It wasn’t his fault alone that we collapsed, though he was playing some **** hockey.
Honestly, trading Kessel makes more sense to me than trading our #1D who we have no close replacement for. Something akin to the Nash trade, but Kessel should be worth significantly more than Nash as he is, well, significantly better (and younger!). Adding 2-3 young high-potential pieces in place of Phil would be the right direction to go I think.
Yak has an attitude problem and is the last guy they need.
Eaxctly....it was hardly a glowing endorsement of Dion.
It was hardly anything...
If we aren't trading Dion, than we need to surround him with better support so that he can succeed into a #2. And not ask him to be the #1 which he is not, but paid like one. My suggestion is to bring in a defender that can eat a lot of minutes and has some leadership qualities.
If we aren't trading Dion, than we need to surround him with better support so that he can succeed into a #2. And not ask him to be the #1 which he is not, but paid like one. My suggestion is to bring in a defender that can eat a lot of minutes and has some leadership qualities.
So basically bringing in some one to do Dions job for him, for half the pay?
"I want to help enhance the player and leader that Dion is." SHANAHAN #Leafs
If we aren't trading Dion, than we need to surround him with better support so that he can succeed into a #2. And not ask him to be the #1 which he is not, but paid like one. My suggestion is to bring in a defender that can eat a lot of minutes and has some leadership qualities.
This kind of thinking gets us nowhere. Bringing in players from other teams to address immediate problems just creates more problems. It's what we've been doing for years and we've gone in circles.
His shooting differential was twice as strong as Gunnarsson. His GA On/ 60 was stronger than Shea Weber. Yes, Gunnarsson's GA On/ 60 is stronger, but offensive contributors are more likely to go out of position than a more defensive counterpart. Phaneuf was hardly the missing link and is the main reason why we had a playoff spot. Advanced statistics tells us that Bozak was a total let down giving up >3.26 goals over 60 minutes. JVR did as well, but I can see him developing a Sharp-like defensive game.The team is in no mans right now with Dion.
-5th last two seasons ago
-Made the playoffs last year but largely cause of special teams. Having the 2nd best PK was unsustainable as was the depth created by AHLers who got a jump on the rest of the league like Kostka, Fraser, Komarov.
-8th last this past season
Horrible advanced stats no matter what statline you choose to look at whether it be shot differential, CORSI, etc.
Toronto is at a cross roads with Dion. I can see the reasons to keep him but then you have to ask yourself what are you winning with him in the next few years and could he just be another Bryan McCabe or Sheldon Souray in their early 30s level Dman in a few short years when we need really need him.
OR
Do we deal him for valuable futures, gain cap space, suck that extra little bit to gain a higher draft pick. If we go this route it'll be more short term pain but there is also a lot more potential upside.
We have a pretty hilarious positions being taken. You have posters who view Phaneuf as a complementary piece, but Carlyle as a great coach. Seeing that Randy has been using Phaneuf extensively on the D-end, and will continue to do that, I can't see him being moved if we're trying to compete.And another 1000 posts come to nothing.
If Phaneuf is dealt for futures then dealing guys like Franson, Lupul, Gunnarson, Gleason and potentially Kadri (depending if they see him as a long term solution) this off-season and next season would also be happening.
We'd also be bringing in some vets who could later be recycled like we did with Versteeg, Beauchemin, Lombardi, etc.
Kessel-Bernier-JVR-Rielly is what we'd have to build around.
Trading Dion in the short term would absolutely hurt and their are no guarantees that dealing him would work out for us. However, keeping him also comes with low upside.
As an example of how dealing a big ticket player can actually help turn around a franchise would you rather be the Blue Jackets with Rick Nash making 7.8 million right now?
OR
The Blue Jackets with 1st rounder (Kerby Rychel), Dubinsky (4.2), Anisimov (3.28) + having enough cap space to sign Nash's replacement in Horton last off-season and sucking enough to get the 2nd overall draft Ryan Murray two drafts ago?
The Blue Jackets did make some other moves but the Nash deal really was a big part of what looks like their teams turning it around and it was considered a bad return at the time.
Dealing a big ticket player like Phaneuf wouldn't just come with extra assets, it would also come with a lot of extra cap space to rededicate.
No matter what happens with Phaneuf this team is a few years from being good and I've argued to keep him but just as easily see how we could greatly benefit long term by trading him.
You're knocking the Jackets , while going around and defending the shape our teams in .
So in your mind they are a Cup contender?
The day this organization trades Dion Phaneuf and Phil Kessel is the day the Leafs become a better team on the ice. Not only will the Leafs ship out 15 million in cap space, they will also receive depth, prospects, and picks for these players in what is quite possibly, the perfect time to rebuild with a strong 2015 draft right around the corner.
These 2 players epitomize the Leafs in their current state perfectly. Soft, easy to play against, and crumbling under any sort of pressure.
This doesn't even make any sense. Letang is being paid more and doesn't play an all-round game. Neither did Brian Campbell when signed by Chicago. This regurgitated argument that seems to pop around never had a shred of logic in it.There is no other role for Phaneuf. He's being paid to be the no. 1 D. He's not Tyler Bozak who is being used as a no. 1 C when we all know he isn't. Bozak is also getting paid as a no. 2 C. Same with Gunnarsson. He's getting paid in line with a 2nd pair D but being asked to be Phaneuf's partner on the top pair while Dion makes 7 million. Ok. Moving Phaneuf to the 2nd pair is not an option and finding a true no. 1 D is not going to happen soon either.
This doesn't even make any sense. Letang is being paid more and doesn't play an all-round game. Neither did Brian Campbell when signed by Chicago. This regurgitated argument that seems to pop around never had a shred of logic in it.
Guess what? Phaneuf got paid, because the market said so. You have a defenceman who can play in all situations. To expect him to post a GA On/ 60 of 1.50 with no two-way centre up front, poorly complemented at D is ridiculous. No one is expecting him to out perform Weber who interestingly posted significantly weaker advanced statistic metrics. Shea, by the way, is complemented by a much better D core and their forwards can largely play defence. Let's be honest here, assessing Dion's performance under this team is outright ridiculous.
Show me any successful team in the league where 1 player can drive an offense and 1 player the defense. It's not Dion and Kessels fault management built a one trick pony team. Finally we at least have some youth coming with support and everyone wants to trade them.