Serious question... what do you figure it would take for us to get Bernier? Would the price be reasonable?
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Holden Caulfield
He's guilty
Was talking about this on the Kings board and I proposed G Al Montoya + D Paul Postma/D Zach Redmond + CHI 2nd for G Jonathan Bernier. As both a Jets and Kings fan I would be happy with that deal. Kings are going to still ask quite a bit for Bernier. Unfortunately with the deal for Ellerby, Kings no longer have any room to add another bottom pairing defenseman, so that deal is now out probably.
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I think our Org has committed to Pavs for now (big fat contract this summer). I believe I am calling it like I see it with Drej right now and he needs to step up but I think it is WAY premature to shop for alternatives at this point.
My hopes are he puts together an March like last December and rolls out a .931 save % for the month and we make the playoffs
sully1410
#EggosForEleven
I think our Org has committed to Pavs for now (big fat contract this summer). I believe I am calling it like I see it with Drej right now and he needs to step up but I think it is WAY premature to shop for alternatives at this point.
My hopes are he puts together an March like last December and rolls out a .931 save % for the month and we make the playoffs
That's everybody's hope
Ulf Hullberg
Registered User
As much as Bernier intrigues me, the Jets currently don't have enough defensive depth to offer in such a trade. I'd also be a hesitant to give away a 2nd rd choice, especially since draft picks are the way Chevy plans to build his team.
And besides, who really knows if Bernier's future is going to be any better than Pavs at this point??
Gil Fisher
Registered User
I think our Org has committed to Pavs for now (big fat contract this summer). I believe I am calling it like I see it with Drej right now and he needs to step up but I think it is WAY premature to shop for alternatives at this point.
My hopes are he puts together an March like last December and rolls out a .931 save % for the month and we make the playoffs
This.
The only way Pavalec isn't our starter for the next 3 years minimum is if a cheap (prospect) alternative emerges. No way TNSE invests $10m per year in goaltending department by having Pavs on the bench and a Bernier or similar as starter.
truck
Registered User
I agree. He will probably be here to play out his contract.
The only other scenario (and I really really hate this scenario) that I could see is Pav completely falling apart this year and next and getting bought out.
Of course this would require an alternative via free agency or perhaps Pasquale's emergence, but the buy-out could bail them out of a bad goalie, big situation.
I really hope that it doesn't come to that though. I want Pav for Vezina.
Hank Chinaski
Registered User
OT Question: Did they show Rad Jets Guy at the game last night? He was on the Sportsnet Connected opener yesterday, but I couldn't tell if it was a recycled clip or a new one.
Anyway, always happy to see RJG getting some love, it was the only bright spot from yesterday.
Anyway, always happy to see RJG getting some love, it was the only bright spot from yesterday.
leaf fan coming in peace aha
jets controlled the play for most of the game although it seemed like every time they'd score one they would decide to take a break. after the 2nd one it was time to take the rest of the night off...very leaf-like collaspe haha
it only took 10 minutes of effort from the leafs to bring this one home
everyone that got boo'ed last night played well, thanks MTS Centre!
quote of the night:
(reimer on the fans chanting his name...)
"Its nice to be appreciated...at least they're pronouncing it right."
James Reimer
..what a beauty!
jets controlled the play for most of the game although it seemed like every time they'd score one they would decide to take a break. after the 2nd one it was time to take the rest of the night off...very leaf-like collaspe haha
it only took 10 minutes of effort from the leafs to bring this one home
everyone that got boo'ed last night played well, thanks MTS Centre!
quote of the night:
(reimer on the fans chanting his name...)
"Its nice to be appreciated...at least they're pronouncing it right."
James Reimer
..what a beauty!
Hank Chinaski
Registered User
Think Kosmachuk in place of Postma/Redmond would get this deal done? I'll admit that I know next to nothing about the Kings prospect depth, I just went with what Hockey's Future said about lacking RW prospects.
I'd be loath to deplete our already thin prospect depth, so I'm not really advocating this trade. Just interested if it would meet the Kings needs.
EDIT: Just to add, it's exceedingly rare for a team to acquire a goalie in mid-season that will put pressure on the starter. Most goalie trades seem to be starter for starter swaps or involve a backup who won't be threatening the starting goalie's job.
It's my first time posting here, but after watching the game in person last night (my first of the season) I felt like grousing. I doubt I'll say too much that you guys haven't discussed already, but here goes...
Pavalec played better than he has been, but I don't think I can honestly say he looked good last night. He stopped all the easy shots and he didn't let in any soft goals, so you can't really hang the loss on him. But by the same token, he only faced three really difficult shots and they all wound up in the back of the net. None of them were his fault, but none of them were impossible to stop either. If Pavs was really on his game he would have made really impressive saves on one or two of those and stolen some points for us, something we saw him do a few times last year when he was on a hot streak. The game he played last night, honestly, was closer to what I'd expect from a solid backup than a starter. He wasn't bad but he still needs to be better, because the rest of the team isn't good enough to win a lot of games when the goaltending is just okay.
But he was far from the only person who didn't have a great outing. The forwards weren't playing their A game either. The offensive zone entries got particularly ugly at times. By the end of the game I'd lost count of the times that all three forwards slowly skated in a straight line toward the blue line and weakly chipped the puck past the opposing defence, entered the zone without any urgency and turned the puck over to the Leafs' defenders. I don't know whether they're playing more cautiously because of the depleted blueline or if they just didn't have any energy last night, but they need to be more aggressive, enter the zone with more speed and force the other team's defence into making mistakes. They just don't have the talent to be successful playing like they did last night.
The defence, I thought, played fairly well. Enstrom made himself look silly once or twice trying to pass through multiple Leaf defenders when he had a good shooting lane, Postma looked really bad when he coughed up that breakaway and I remember being really, really annoyed when Clitsome took himself out of position trying to make a big hit, but all in all I think they looked solid. They'll be bolstered immensely when Bogosian and Byfuglien are back, but even now I don't think they're the weak link on the team like some posters have suggested.
Pavalec played better than he has been, but I don't think I can honestly say he looked good last night. He stopped all the easy shots and he didn't let in any soft goals, so you can't really hang the loss on him. But by the same token, he only faced three really difficult shots and they all wound up in the back of the net. None of them were his fault, but none of them were impossible to stop either. If Pavs was really on his game he would have made really impressive saves on one or two of those and stolen some points for us, something we saw him do a few times last year when he was on a hot streak. The game he played last night, honestly, was closer to what I'd expect from a solid backup than a starter. He wasn't bad but he still needs to be better, because the rest of the team isn't good enough to win a lot of games when the goaltending is just okay.
But he was far from the only person who didn't have a great outing. The forwards weren't playing their A game either. The offensive zone entries got particularly ugly at times. By the end of the game I'd lost count of the times that all three forwards slowly skated in a straight line toward the blue line and weakly chipped the puck past the opposing defence, entered the zone without any urgency and turned the puck over to the Leafs' defenders. I don't know whether they're playing more cautiously because of the depleted blueline or if they just didn't have any energy last night, but they need to be more aggressive, enter the zone with more speed and force the other team's defence into making mistakes. They just don't have the talent to be successful playing like they did last night.
The defence, I thought, played fairly well. Enstrom made himself look silly once or twice trying to pass through multiple Leaf defenders when he had a good shooting lane, Postma looked really bad when he coughed up that breakaway and I remember being really, really annoyed when Clitsome took himself out of position trying to make a big hit, but all in all I think they looked solid. They'll be bolstered immensely when Bogosian and Byfuglien are back, but even now I don't think they're the weak link on the team like some posters have suggested.
Holden Caulfield
He's guilty
Think Kosmachuk in place of Postma/Redmond would get this deal done? I'll admit that I know next to nothing about the Kings prospect depth, I just went with what Hockey's Future said about lacking RW prospects.
I'd be loath to deplete our already thin prospect depth, so I'm not really advocating this trade. Just interested if it would meet the Kings needs.
EDIT: Just to add, it's exceedingly rare for a team to acquire a goalie in mid-season that will put pressure on the starter. Most goalie trades seem to be starter for starter swaps or involve a backup who won't be threatening the starting goalie's job.
It's possible, Kings dont have much in the way of scoring winger prospects outside of Toffoli and Pearson. Hard to say with Bernier, some Kings fans are completely done with him, some like me feel that his type of goaltender thrives when getting regular minutes and suffers badly when he doesn't. He is a goalie that depends on positional play, and thrives when getting in a rhythm, won't get the highs and lows of an atheletic goalie. Like a Sergei Bobrovsky style (solid numbers as starter playing 54gp in 10-11, struggled as backup playing 33gp in 11-12), but more talented, IMO.
It's true. I can't think of a mid-season trade for a guy to pressure a starter. In 06 Oilers dealt for MIN backup netminder Dwayne Roloson and instantly made him their starter starting like the last 20 games in a row, but that's different since the 3 headed monster they were using was beyond terrible (Jussi Markkanen, Ty Conklin, Mike Morrison).
Honestly it's probably best to ride Pavelec out this season. But if he continues to struggle, at very least I want to bring in a goalie who will press Pavelec, maybe overtake him. We need consistant netminding and if Pavelec can't bring it you find it somewhere else. His contract is not the end of the world, amnesty buyouts exist this summer and the next, so if he loses his starting spot in the next two years that will continue to be an option. Even if not, it is only a 3.9 caphit, not the end of the world.
JetsFan815
Replacement Level Poster
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After this stint by the Jets can we all admit that Buff is clearly our best player? Without him this team just looks anaemic. It was the same last year too when he was injured before the All Star break. Buff was the force that was almost singlehandedly making our PP click despite the PP itself being terrible. In addition to that he is the most entertaining player to watch on ice. I hope he is healthy for Ottawa, we need him.
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
It's my first time posting here, but after watching the game in person last night (my first of the season) I felt like grousing. I doubt I'll say too much that you guys haven't discussed already, but here goes...
Pavalec played better than he has been, but I don't think I can honestly say he looked good last night. He stopped all the easy shots and he didn't let in any soft goals, so you can't really hang the loss on him. But by the same token, he only faced three really difficult shots and they all wound up in the back of the net. None of them were his fault, but none of them were impossible to stop either. If Pavs was really on his game he would have made really impressive saves on one or two of those and stolen some points for us, something we saw him do a few times last year when he was on a hot streak. The game he played last night, honestly, was closer to what I'd expect from a solid backup than a starter. He wasn't bad but he still needs to be better, because the rest of the team isn't good enough to win a lot of games when the goaltending is just okay.
But he was far from the only person who didn't have a great outing. The forwards weren't playing their A game either. The offensive zone entries got particularly ugly at times. By the end of the game I'd lost count of the times that all three forwards slowly skated in a straight line toward the blue line and weakly chipped the puck past the opposing defence, entered the zone without any urgency and turned the puck over to the Leafs' defenders. I don't know whether they're playing more cautiously because of the depleted blueline or if they just didn't have any energy last night, but they need to be more aggressive, enter the zone with more speed and force the other team's defence into making mistakes. They just don't have the talent to be successful playing like they did last night.
The defence, I thought, played fairly well. Enstrom made himself look silly once or twice trying to pass through multiple Leaf defenders when he had a good shooting lane, Postma looked really bad when he coughed up that breakaway and I remember being really, really annoyed when Clitsome took himself out of position trying to make a big hit, but all in all I think they looked solid. They'll be bolstered immensely when Bogosian and Byfuglien are back, but even now I don't think they're the weak link on the team like some posters have suggested.
Welcome to HFBoards
JetsFan815
Replacement Level Poster
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You are forgetting the Bozak wrister about a minute after Kessel's goal that beat Pavs on the glove side but Pavs got bailed out by the post. I don't think there was even a screen on Pavelec on that shot
JetsFan815
Replacement Level Poster
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Holden Caulfield
He's guilty
Ottawa paid a 2nd rounder last year for a goalie who was not only unproven, but had backup upside. This is a late 2nd rounder and a 3rd pairing D, with 2nd pairing upside + a toss in that would be waived if the deal went through anyways. For a goalie who won the AHL goalie of the year award at a mere 21 years old. The fact that he has been unable to unseat a top 2 goaltender in the world should hardly hurt his value, IMO. Hardly an overpayment, IMO.
Gotaf7
Registered User
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sully1410
#EggosForEleven
A top two goalie that has struggled to find his stride after back surgery. I'm not sure that we would be any better off with Bernier.
Thanks.Welcome to HFBoards
I think I have to agree with this. There are enough holes in the team as it stands that an improvement in net probably isn't going to singlehandedly drag the Jets into the playoffs this year.
Pavelec's got a lot of raw talent, but he's also into his fourth year as an NHL starting goalie and hasn't progressed a huge amount in all that time. There comes a point where you have to wonder whether that talent is going to bear fruit. I'd like to think it will, but the chances of that are best if Pavelec has a bit of competition. Having a young up-and-comer breathing down his neck would hopefully light a fire under him, and help him become the consistent, reliable starter the team needs (or alternately, he could find himself outplayed and replaced). In the best case scenario we could end up with two starting-calibre goalies and move one or the other for help at another position, and in the worst case we wouldn't be much farther behind than we are now. I'm not sure that any of the 2013 UFAs would fit our needs though, so unless Pasquale takes a big step forward in the next few months the Jets would have to look at the trade market.
I wouldn't necessarily say that he's our best player, but he's probably our most important. I think Kane and Enstrom have more talent, but neither one of them can force the opposition to change the way they play like Buff does. The other team can never quite be sure what he's going to do or when he'll jump up and join the attack, and when he's out of the lineup we lack that element of unpredictability. Without it we're just too easy to defend against, and our other top guys have less space to work with.
Holden Caulfield
He's guilty
It's been 9 games. Bernier has not even gotten a start.
I'm not certain he would be any better than Pavelec, but his upside is much higher and he could certainly push Pavelec A LOT more than Montoya. I don't think it's likely, but I think it'd be a good for the Jets. Doesn't even have to be Bernier, there's a few goalies I wouldn't mind targeting to push Pavelec, although Bernier is probably the most developed and has the highest upside (but also cost the most).
sully1410
#EggosForEleven
I agree with this.
It's just weird how much Quick is struggling right now. Lundqvist too for that matter. Especially given how lights out they were last season.
truck
Registered User
They will get rolling. This is what we get after 10 games and no training camp. :s
FWIW I don't expect Quick to match his 2012 numbers again this year or ever, but that is another story.
Huffer
Registered User
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It's my first time posting here, but after watching the game in person last night (my first of the season) I felt like grousing. I doubt I'll say too much that you guys haven't discussed already, but here goes...
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Excellent Post Warcry. Welcome to the board!
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