Prospect Info: Leafs' 2019 5th-round (#146) -- Michael Koster - 5' 9"/172 lbs HIGH-MN CHASKA

[SeaOfBlue]

Further addressing this Dubas "size issue"

Leafs UFA signing Mikheyev 6'2"
Leafs UFA signing Kivhalme 6'0"
Leafs sign 2016 Draft pick, Korshkov 6'3"
Leafs signed undrafted Mason Marchmant 6'4"
Leafs trade for 6'3" Muzzin

This isn't a size allergy thing... there have been plenty of signings of bigger guys....

Not to mention 6'6", 220 lbs RW Justin Brazeau on an AHL deal. Kristians Rubins and Hudson Elynuik are 6'3"/6'4". A lot of smaller guys too, but there are some big bodies in the mix.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

You can grow in height but you can’t teach talent.

 

[gordonshumway]

Not to mention 6'6", 220 lbs RW Justin Brazeau on an AHL deal. Kristians Rubins and Hudson Elynuik are 6'3"/6'4". A lot of smaller guys too, but there are some big bodies in the mix.

None of these guys are our draft picks which is what I thought we were discussing here?

 

[Fogelhund]

None of these guys are our draft picks which is what I thought we were discussing here?

Trying to define how others can discuss size in the organization? Our draft was... what six picks. We drafted who was best on our board. Who knows which guys were drafted before our picks, and their size... it's a small sample size.... we've brought up multiple other examples of Dubas going for size.

 

[Patmac40]

If you call the last 20 years of drafting "incredibly small sample size" then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
All I keep saying is we've had much better luck using those late picks on Europeans, so why not continue doing what has been somewhat successful instead of doing what has failed 99% of the time?

The Nonis, Burke, JFJ, and Quinn eras serve as absolutely no comparison to the current regime.

But I'll bite. If you want to talk about "smurf" American players taken mid-to-late rounds over the last 20 years, there's actually only two that fit that description (if "smurf" is any player taken under 6'0") that the Leafs have taken: Jerry D'Amigo (6th rounder, played a bit in the NHL, not great but ok for a 6th rounder) and Tony Cameranesi (5th rounder that didn't make it to the show). They historically haven't take this kind of player and truly only have 3 comparables (Walker, D'Amigo, and Cameranesi). While 20 years is a large sample size, 3 picks that meet this definition is not.The Leafs brass also struck out on a number of Euro picks but there are far more of those.

Doing things the way they've been done the last 20 years is how they got into the mess before having to rebuild. Let's try something new.

 

[gordonshumway]

The Nonis, Burke, JFJ, and Quinn eras serve as absolutely no comparison to the current regime.

But I'll bite. If you want to talk about "smurf" American players take in mid-to-late rounds over the last 20 years, there's actually only two that fit that description (if "smurf" is any player taken under 6'0") that the Leafs have taken: Jerry D'Amigo (6th rounder, played a bit in the NHL, not great but ok for a 6th rounder) and Tony Cameranesi (5th rounder that didn't make it to the show). They historically haven't take this kind of player and truly only have 3 comparables (Walker, D'Amigo, and Cameranesi). While 20 years is a large sample size, 3 picks that meet this definition is not.The Leafs brass also struck out on a number of Euro picks but there are far more of those.

Doing things the way they've been done the last 20 years is how they got into the mess before having to rebuild. Let's try something new.

My smurf label was purely for Koster, but as far as American draft picks in the last 20 years, the list is fairly long:
Metcalf in 1999, Vernarsky in 2000, Doherty 2003, Earl and Norton in 2004, Rau and Berry in 2005, Ruegsegger in 2006, Hayes and Pateryn in 2008 (ironically those are the only two that amounted to much, albeit in other organizations), Ryan, Knodel, D'amigo and Smith in 2009 (thx Burkie!), Biggs, Cameranesi, Sparks and Everson in 2011, Toninato 2012. 2014 saw us waste three picks on Vesey, Joshua and Piccinich. The most recent drafts, I guess you can say remains to be seen (Bracco, Woll, Walker). But sure, let's keep arguing that "it's different this time" and (as someone above said) "you can grow inches but can't teach talent" - really?!? then what on earth do we have all these coaches for? Many argue the opposite, you can't teach size. Obviously all the later round picks come with some flaws but that's on coaching/development to correct those.... but they can't magically make these guys grow taller. I can somewhat get behind drafting smallish forwards, but when you use picks on 5-9 defencemen, that's just a waste of a pick. Who's he gonna stop/outmuscle?!?

 

[Patmac40]

My smurf label was purely for Koster, but as far as American draft picks in the last 20 years, the list is fairly long:
Metcalf in 1999, Vernarsky in 2000, Doherty 2003, Earl and Norton in 2004, Rau and Berry in 2005, Ruegsegger in 2006, Hayes and Pateryn in 2008 (ironically those are the only two that amounted to much, albeit in other organizations), Ryan, Knodel, D'amigo and Smith in 2009 (thx Burkie!), Biggs, Cameranesi, Sparks and Everson in 2011, Toninato 2012. 2014 saw us waste three picks on Vesey, Joshua and Piccinich. The most recent drafts, I guess you can say remains to be seen (Bracco, Woll, Walker). But sure, let's keep arguing that "it's different this time" and (as someone above said) "you can grow inches but can't teach talent" - really?!? then what on earth do we have all these coaches for? Many argue the opposite, you can't teach size. Obviously all the later round picks come with some flaws but that's on coaching/development to correct those.... but they can't magically make these guys grow taller. I can somewhat get behind drafting smallish forwards, but when you use picks on 5-9 defencemen, that's just a waste of a pick. Who's he gonna stop/outmuscle?!?

What is the difference between Koster and the other Americans you listed? His skill level and hockey sense. Most of these guys were bigger guys and likely picked due to being bigger. Koster, while short, stands out because of how smart he is and how skilled he is. This is a different philosophy than what was used in previous drafts and it's very evident. Maybe the historical US picks would've been better if they were using the current philosophy? I'd bargain that it would look far different. The only thing you should think about when it comes to nationality, if you want to look at past drafts for comparisons, is to ask yourself if there are good Americans being taken in the middle or late rounds. The answer, no matter what year, is a resounding "yes". In that case, a competent scouting team and front office should be able to find the ones worth taking. I believe that group is in place in the Leafs organization so screw drafting history over the last 20 years, it doesn't matter.

Who is he going to stop/outmuscle? We've seen instances from the U18s that he is quite good at maintaining a solid gap and closing at good spots of the ice, against guys like Lafreniere, Cozens, etc. And reports show that he has a good amount of snarl in his game and doesn't back down physically. The overall game is far less physical than it once was and allows for smaller defensemen to flourish in the league. How does Jared Spurgeon do it? How does Ryan Ellis do it? How does Torey Krug do it? Vatanen? Gryzleck? There are about 20 full-time defensemen who are around Koster's size and that will only increase over the next few years.

The way he has shown to be a smart defender and his strengths allow me to believe he could be able to defend at the next level with the right development and be a guy who moves to puck out of the zone with confidence. It's a 5th rounder so who knows exactly how he'll end up but I truly don't think his size will hinder him.

 

[Randy Randerson]

My smurf label was purely for Koster, but as far as American draft picks in the last 20 years, the list is fairly long:
Metcalf in 1999, Vernarsky in 2000, Doherty 2003, Earl and Norton in 2004, Rau and Berry in 2005, Ruegsegger in 2006, Hayes and Pateryn in 2008 (ironically those are the only two that amounted to much, albeit in other organizations), Ryan, Knodel, D'amigo and Smith in 2009 (thx Burkie!), Biggs, Cameranesi, Sparks and Everson in 2011, Toninato 2012. 2014 saw us waste three picks on Vesey, Joshua and Piccinich. The most recent drafts, I guess you can say remains to be seen (Bracco, Woll, Walker). But sure, let's keep arguing that "it's different this time" and (as someone above said) "you can grow inches but can't teach talent" - really?!? then what on earth do we have all these coaches for? Many argue the opposite, you can't teach size. Obviously all the later round picks come with some flaws but that's on coaching/development to correct those.... but they can't magically make these guys grow taller. I can somewhat get behind drafting smallish forwards, but when you use picks on 5-9 defencemen, that's just a waste of a pick. Who's he gonna stop/outmuscle?!?

The lightning wasted top 10 picks on Alexeev & Svitov and a bunch of 3rd round or better picks before 2011 with the best result being Evgeny Artukhin. If they had followed the "well, we haven't been successful from this country so let's stop trying" mantra, they would have missed out on a top 5 NHL player with a 2nd round pick (who is also undersized). This is why they evaluate individual players rather than whole countries. And before you say "well we do well out of Sweden", the Swedish scouts have their input on every draft, if they felt strongly that there was a Swede or European that was the best value for any given pick, the brass would probably heed that advice. Sometimes the player just isn't available out of that region to justify the pick, and I'm sure that the Leafs' Euro scouts don't want to have every pick go their way just for the sake of it because they're evaluated on their results.

If Koster doesn't grow at all, there are other NHL dmen that are smaller than him doing just fine against NHL sized forwards, Krug and Spurgeon are stars.

 

[RoadWarrior]

The lightning wasted top 10 picks on Alexeev & Svitov and a bunch of 3rd round or better picks before 2011 with the best result being Evgeny Artukhin. If they had followed the "well, we haven't been successful from this country so let's stop trying" mantra, they would have missed out on a top 5 NHL player with a 2nd round pick (who is also undersized). This is why they evaluate individual players rather than whole countries. And before you say "well we do well out of Sweden", the Swedish scouts have their input on every draft, if they felt strongly that there was a Swede or European that was the best value for any given pick, the brass would probably heed that advice. Sometimes the player just isn't available out of that region to justify the pick, and I'm sure that the Leafs' Euro scouts don't want to have every pick go their way just for the sake of it because they're evaluated on their results.

If Koster doesn't grow at all, there are other NHL dmen that are smaller than him doing just fine against NHL sized forwards, Krug and Spurgeon are stars.

The leafs are looking for another Tory Krug in Koster. He was apparently very dynamic at the Hlinka tournament.

 

[Randy Randerson]

The leafs are looking for another Tory Krug in Koster. He was apparently very dynamic at the Hlinka tournament.

I think we should be tempered in those kinds of expectations for a 5th round pick, but I do agree that I like the pick. Tory Krug is an absolute star that was overlooked because he's small, if teams want to pass up good talent because of something that doesn't stop them from being terrific NHL'ers, that's better for us imo

 

[Judas Tavares]

i remember just 3 years ago passing on a 40 goal scorer for a big dude. Fill the net, not the measuring tape.

 

[Morgs]

2019 NHL Draft Recap: Mike Koster is a puck moving defenceman in the truest sense

Good article by 51Leafs.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

Not a good pick. It was a waste. He is a small D man with average skating. HE WILL NEVER PLAY IN THE NHL. Leafs need big fast and skilled D men, not hobbits.

Tell me how well you think he will do against a Crosby or Malkin bearing down on him at full speed?

potentially as well as Barrie or any of the other smaller D's even Mete isn't run roughshod over...plus the kid is still young, has a little more growing to do and who knows what develops while he is in Minnesota...that's a hockey school through and through

 

[kb]

Trying to define how others can discuss size in the organization? Our draft was... what six picks. We drafted who was best on our board. Who knows which guys were drafted before our picks, and their size... it's a small sample size.... we've brought up multiple other examples of Dubas going for size.

Moving targets are much harder to hit.....

 

[Havoc]

I don't know anything about these prospects so I've been googling them over the past couple of days.

Majority of our picks are on a lot of peoples "best value" and "Sleeper" lists, including this guy.

I think I'll go with their opinion over the Don Cherry wanna-be's on this forum.

 

[57special]

I have to laugh at the scout's comments about Koster's skating. These are experts? He was always a great skater, and it's gotten better. Fast, smooth, balanced, with nice agility in small areas. He doesn't get knocked around much in college hockey, which I put down to his balance and ability to see, and get out of trouble.
He looks to be around 5'10 out there. Certainly taller than Spurgeon.

 

[Leaf Fans]

None of these guys are our draft picks which is what I thought we were discussing here?

It is Koster for this thread

 

[justashadowof]

I was immediately impressed with his skating abilities. Seems to be off to a good start to his NCAA career. I always earmark these late pick defensemen who have strong skating abilities regardless of their size. They can fill out over time.

 

[Byron Bitz]

You can grow in height but you can’t teach talent.

At this age they are mostly full grown

 

[darrylsittler27]

I don't care about his size. Fleury was how tall? You need a mix. How tall is Robertson? Dubas is getting guys below their grade because they are small you then go out get the size via trade or free agency. If half your team is 6 ft 2 or 6 ft 3 you love those small skilled guys.

 

[hotpaws]

between Hollowell/Koster/Fusco we're going to be waste deep in Krug level D , lol

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

I don't care about his size. Fleury was how tall? You need a mix. How tall is Robertson? Dubas is getting guys below their grade because they are small you then go out get the size via trade or free agency. If half your team is 6 ft 2 or 6 ft 3 you love those small skilled guys.

The funny thing is that those same people want us to be like Boston yet Boston only had 2 regular D-men that were over 6 feet tall.

Krug and Grzelcyk were 5'9", Clifton was 5'11" and McAvoy was 6'0".

Tampa was a much bigger team on the back end but their forwards were a much smaller group than ours.

Size doesn't matter at all, you just need to find the right balance to your lineup.

Koster is trending well, let's just be happy.

 

[The CyNick]

5'9. My prediction. 0-10 NHL career games.

 

[Fogelhund]

5'9. My prediction. 0-10 NHL career games.

because 5'9" and the sky is always falling #schtick.

 

[Welsh Maple Leaf]

5'9. My prediction. 0-10 NHL career games.

We are all surprised with your prediction