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Prospect Info: Leafs' 2019 5th-round (#146) -- Michael Koster - 5' 9"/172 lbs HIGH-MN CHASKA

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stickty111 said:


A defenceman that has good gap control, and is positionally solid?
Sign me up.
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Agreed. He is also going the US College route which means he will get a ton of skills development over the next few years and have more time to work out and build his size and explosiveness up.
It's so hard to judge these guys, but he looks like the kind of guy who could develop well if he really dedicates himself to the craft.
Still young enough that he can grow a few inches.


I like that most of the Leafs picks are being called good defensively, smart, and tenacious.
 
I like this pick for a 5th rounder.

Long shot but he has a long of translatable skills. Just needs to mature physically and get more experience.
 
What makes you think he won't make it based on size? Krug, Ellis, Spurgeon, Girard are a few examples of really good D men in the NHL that are 5'10 and under. I would be ecstatic if we ended up with a player as good as one of them. Hollowel is a guy in our system that has done well so far and could be a player.

I don't like that we didn't take a single player over 6' either but you can always sign or trade for guys with size. Dubas prioritizes skill and hockey IQ. Being able to process the game that is so fast in the NHL is probably the most important asset to have. So if we keep throwing darts at kids later in the draft that can think the game at a higher level you are probably more likely to end up with an NHLer than if you got someone like Tyler Biggs that will end up nothing more than an AHLer.
gordonshumway said:
Yeah but like they say, you cannot teach size. Why not pick guys at least 6ft, 6-1 with flaws in their game that can be corrected instead of guys whose size pretty much ensures they'll never make it? That's what bugs me about picks like this.
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TML1967 said:
Agreed. He is also going the US College route which means he will get a ton of skills development over the next few years and have more time to work out and build his size and explosiveness up.
It's so hard to judge these guys, but he looks like the kind of guy who could develop well if he really dedicates himself to the craft.
Still young enough that he can grow a few inches.


I like that most of the Leafs picks are being called good defensively, smart, and tenacious.
Click to expand...

Morgs said:
Holy ****, that was on Lafreniere mostly. Super impressive.
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Another tweet

 
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Iso positioning looks very solid from those clips but he needs to add some acceleration at that size if he's ever going to defend an NHL in zone cycle. I like the pick though.
 
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acrobaticgoalie said:
What makes you think he won't make it based on size? Krug, Ellis, Spurgeon, Girard are a few examples of really good D men in the NHL that are 5'10 and under. I would be ecstatic if we ended up with a player as good as one of them. Hollowel is a guy in our system that has done well so far and could be a player.

I don't like that we didn't take a single player over 6' either but you can always sign or trade for guys with size. Dubas prioritizes skill and hockey IQ. Being able to process the game that is so fast in the NHL is probably the most important asset to have. So if we keep throwing darts at kids later in the draft that can think the game at a higher level you are probably more likely to end up with an NHLer than if you got someone like Tyler Biggs that will end up nothing more than an AHLer.
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Well you named probably the only ones that amounted to anything. It's the hundreds of undersized dmen that nobody remembers ;)
Let me re-iterate what I've been arguing in this thread: my problem with this pick is two-fold, size is one because yes, that right away tends to mean the odds are against you making the big leagues, my other beef with it is the atrocious success rate Leafs have had with their american born draft picks (Matthews doesn't count, obviously being the 1st overall). They've had much better luck drafting Swedes and Fins in late rounds, we have good scouts in Europe, why do they keep wasting picks on these smurf-sized americans?
 
gordonshumway said:
Well you named probably the only ones that amounted to anything. It's the hundreds of undersized dmen that nobody remembers ;)
Let me re-iterate what I've been arguing in this thread: my problem with this pick is two-fold, size is one because yes, that right away tends to mean the odds are against you making the big leagues, my other beef with it is the atrocious success rate Leafs have had with their american born draft picks (Matthews doesn't count, obviously being the 1st overall). They've had much better luck drafting Swedes and Fins in late rounds, we have good scouts in Europe, why do they keep wasting picks on these smurf-sized americans?
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What does track record of American draftees matter? Each case is its own and the organization can help Koster develop. The pick isn't bad because we haven't always hit on Americans in mid-to-late rounds. This management group has only a couple Americans in mid-to-late rounds to even compare to.

- Joe Woll (2016): Looks to be a potential starter, getting a shot in the AHL next year
- Jack Walker (2016): Was an overager, hasn't developed much

That's literally it. If you're judging it off this incredibly small sample size then I'd say it's a pretty unfounded criticism.
 
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Patmac40 said:
What does track record of American draftees matter? Each case is its own and the organization can help Koster develop. The pick isn't bad because we haven't always hit on Americans in mid-to-late rounds. This management group has only a couple Americans in mid-to-late rounds to even compare to.

- Joe Woll (2016): Looks to be a potential starter, getting a shot in the AHL next year
- Jack Walker (2016): Was an overager, hasn't developed much

That's literally it. If you're judging it off this incredibly small sample size then I'd say it's a pretty unfounded criticism.
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Those 2 and Greenway are the only Americans I can think of. So I'm not sure where he's getting all these Smurf sized Americans from.
 
gordonshumway said:
Well you named probably the only ones that amounted to anything. It's the hundreds of undersized dmen that nobody remembers ;)
Let me re-iterate what I've been arguing in this thread: my problem with this pick is two-fold, size is one because yes, that right away tends to mean the odds are against you making the big leagues, my other beef with it is the atrocious success rate Leafs have had with their american born draft picks (Matthews doesn't count, obviously being the 1st overall). They've had much better luck drafting Swedes and Fins in late rounds, we have good scouts in Europe, why do they keep wasting picks on these smurf-sized americans?
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What other "smurf-sized americans" have we wasted picks on? Do we realize the odds of getting a player outside the 2nd round is slim to none?

And maybe they didn't go with Swedes and Fins in this round because the BPA was a "smurf-sized american"?

Probably the last time I'll say smurf on this website zzzzzzzzzz.
 
gordonshumway said:
Well you named probably the only ones that amounted to anything. It's the hundreds of undersized dmen that nobody remembers ;)
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Your insistence on taking big D is evidence that there are tons of large D taken in later rounds that no one remembers either. Middleton, Gordeev, Mattinen, Desroches, Nielsen etc. you seem to have forgotten about in our teams recent draft history. You can double down all you want, you're basing your opinion on arbitrary height numbers you see on a page and not based off of knowing how any of them actually play the game of hockey.
 
gordonshumway said:
Well you named probably the only ones that amounted to anything. It's the hundreds of undersized dmen that nobody remembers ;)
Let me re-iterate what I've been arguing in this thread: my problem with this pick is two-fold, size is one because yes, that right away tends to mean the odds are against you making the big leagues, my other beef with it is the atrocious success rate Leafs have had with their american born draft picks (Matthews doesn't count, obviously being the 1st overall). They've had much better luck drafting Swedes and Fins in late rounds, we have good scouts in Europe, why do they keep wasting picks on these smurf-sized americans?
Click to expand...
Leafs drafting dmen since 2012 results:
Success:
Morgan Rielly - 6'0"
Travis Dermott - 5'11"

Too early to know, trending well:
Timothy Liljegren - 6'0"
Rasmus Sandin - 5'11"
Mac Hollowell - 5'10"
Jesper Lindgren - 6'0"
Filip Kral - 6'01"
Sean Durzi - 6'0"

Too early to know, not trending well:
Eemeli Rasanen - 6'7"
JD Greenway - 6'5"
Ryan O'Connell - 6'2"

Failure:
Keaton Middleton - 6'5"
Fedor Gordeev - 6'7"
Nicolas Mattinen - 6'5"
Andrew Nielsen - 6'3"
Stephen Desrocher - 6'4"
Rinat Valiev - 6'3"
Matt Finn - 6'1"
Victor Loov - 6'1"

in terms of the Leafs drafting, the opposite of what you're saying appears to be true
 
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Further addressing this Dubas "size issue"

Leafs UFA signing Mikheyev 6'2"
Leafs UFA signing Kivhalme 6'0"
Leafs sign 2016 Draft pick, Korshkov 6'3"
Leafs signed undrafted Mason Marchmant 6'4"
Leafs trade for 6'3" Muzzin

This isn't a size allergy thing... there have been plenty of signings of bigger guys....
 
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It's hilarious people think he hates size. No, size is just still an obvious market efficiency in later rounds when it comes to what Dubas is actually looking for: IQ & Skill.

The guy is going to try his best to put out a team of 12 forwards and 6 defenseman with all high IQ & Skill, no matter their size. Might as well get used to it.
 
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gordonshumway said:
Well you named probably the only ones that amounted to anything. It's the hundreds of undersized dmen that nobody remembers ;)
Let me re-iterate what I've been arguing in this thread: my problem with this pick is two-fold, size is one because yes, that right away tends to mean the odds are against you making the big leagues, my other beef with it is the atrocious success rate Leafs have had with their american born draft picks (Matthews doesn't count, obviously being the 1st overall). They've had much better luck drafting Swedes and Fins in late rounds, we have good scouts in Europe, why do they keep wasting picks on these smurf-sized americans?
Click to expand...

What do you think of these prospects beyond just their size and nationality?
 
Patmac40 said:
What does track record of American draftees matter? Each case is its own and the organization can help Koster develop. The pick isn't bad because we haven't always hit on Americans in mid-to-late rounds. This management group has only a couple Americans in mid-to-late rounds to even compare to.

- Joe Woll (2016): Looks to be a potential starter, getting a shot in the AHL next year
- Jack Walker (2016): Was an overager, hasn't developed much

That's literally it. If you're judging it off this incredibly small sample size then I'd say it's a pretty unfounded criticism.
Click to expand...

If you call the last 20 years of drafting "incredibly small sample size" then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
All I keep saying is we've had much better luck using those late picks on Europeans, so why not continue doing what has been somewhat successful instead of doing what has failed 99% of the time?
 
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