Salary Cap: Leafs' 2014-2015 Cap Situation and Strategy

[King85Kong]

Well that's a logical argument!

Bozak was playing for the U of Denver when he was 23! Obcourse Kadri had more points at 23. A bigger minus too!

Due to not being good enough to make the NHL at the time. And I know you don't want go +/- at age 24, where Bozak was -29 (not that +/- means a whole lot)
Bozak age 24 numbers
GP 82 G15 A17 P32 +/- -29
Ya, I feel pretty confident Kadri will smash those numbers this year. Odds are that he will likely put up better numbers then 28 year old Bozak.

 

[King85Kong]

I actually see Kadri as a winger. If we ever need to trade Lupul to get a deal done salary wise, look for Kadri to take his spot and then having Holland, Kontiola, etc. taking over if it's this year or others (Nylander for example) if it's later.

Those players haven't proven themselves. When they do, then we can go from there. Holland will see wing time this year more then likely.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I actually see Kadri as a winger. If we ever need to trade Lupul to get a deal done salary wise, look for Kadri to take his spot and then having Holland, Kontiola, etc. taking over if it's this year or others (Nylander for example) if it's later.

Actually I like this idea, unlike Bozak's career face-off stats
Rookie Year 55.2%
Sophomore year 54.6%
3rd Year 52.7%
4th Year 52.6%
Kadri has never done well in face-offs. To be a good Center you need to be strong on the dot. I like Kadri moving to the wing, it will also shelter his defensive weaknesses better by lessening his responsibilities. Good post!

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Due to not being good enough to make the NHL at the time. And I know you don't want go +/- at age 24, where Bozak was -29 (not that +/- means a whole lot)
Bozak age 24 numbers
GP 82 G15 A17 P32 +/- -29
Ya, I feel pretty confident Kadri will smash those numbers this year. Odds are that he will likely put up better numbers then 28 year old Bozak.

I like the what if argument. Very compelling. If Kadri is not better in his 4th pro year than a player playing his first year in the NHL, I would be disappointed too.

For the record Bozak had 27 points in 37 games, -5 in his first season. You have your years wrong.

 

[King85Kong]

Actually I like this idea, unlike Bozak's career face-off stats
Rookie Year 55.2%
Sophomore year 54.6%
3rd Year 52.7%
4th Year 52.6%
Kadri has never done well in face-offs. To be a good Center you need to be strong on the dot. I like Kadri moving to the wing, it will also shelter his defensive weaknesses better by lessening his responsibilities. Good post!

Kadri is so weak defensively that he had less goals against while on the ice last year.

 

[King85Kong]

I like the what if argument. Very compelling. If Kadri is not better in his 4th pro year than a player playing his first year in the NHL, I would be disappointed too.

For the record Bozak had 27 points in 37 games, -5 in his first season. You have your years wrong.

Kadri shouldn't be faulted for being good enough to make the NHL at a younger age. That is on Bozak. Ok if that counts as year 01, then his second year he had 32 points in 82 games. Not good at all. Either way Kadri will do better.

 

[Eb]

Well Bolland said it came down the Leafs offer and Florida offers.
&
TSN insiders Dreger/Bobby Mac reported 5-6 years at $4.95 mil was on the table at one point for Bolland and that might have gone up for final offer for Bolland in an attempt to keep him.

Had the Leafs re-signed Bolland they would be in even more cap hell then they are now. Instead of Bolland they signed (Santorelli, Winnik, Booth, & Kontiola) for $5 mil instead.

How are you talking like this above but in other posts pump Bollands tires for being a playoff performer and doing the opposite for the other four.

Pick a side.

 

[schenneuf]

Not perpetual lol.

Today's english lesson.

Perpetual: occurring repeatedly; so frequent as to seem endless and uninterrupted.

Placing in the playoffs in one of the last two seasons, is not what I would call "uninterrupted".

But I know how much you and Mess and a hundred other posters can't help but preach only of criticisms and negatives and never ever look at a single positive. So continue.

I bolded those two words in YOUR quote. It doesn't say ALL THE TIME. Facts don't lie. Not making the playoffs 6 out of 7 years CAN be considered PERPETUAL bottom-feeders.

 

[schenneuf]

Destroying team confidence, destroying player confidence in management, losing potential millions in pure profit, losing huge fan support which results in losing sales, losing priceless playoff experience, and sentencing your team to an endless cycle of suck so that you can get a couple 2nd and 3rd round picks that have a statistically horrific chance of becoming a player of any importance (in a bad draft year no less!) when we were one of the better teams in the league the year before and took the SCF to game 7 OT.

Yeah, I'd say that's a crazy concept.

The Leafs are one of the richest teams in sports. How easy is it to get a ticket to a Leafs game? One playoff appearance in 7 years (a strike-shortened one at that). Were we not in an endless cycle of suck prior to the lone playoff appearance (and back in it now)? I still don't know what to make of that playoff appearance (although this past year certainly helps!). Yes, they took the SCF to OT of game 7, but they also blew a 3-goal lead in the last 10 minutes of the 3rd period, which seems reminiscent of 2 of the last 3 years.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Meh this happens every year. People freak out and every year little actually happens where it's an issue. People say "well what if this happens, or what if that were to occur" and blah blah blah. LTIR will happen, cap space will be banked, players will be sent down to the minors (like Orr when we call up a 7th cheaper dman), trades will happen (Reimer for cheaper backup, Lupul if he hits up to par, any number of the 1 year UFA's we have who have good seasons) and everything will be a-ok.

Like someone already said, nothing to see here

Completely agree.

The OP is trying to make a story out of nothing. With the current roster we'll be fine in not going over the cap.

The OP is also imagining a worst possible case that has almost no chance ever happening at the very beginning of the season before we'd at least have some cap space banked.

Every year around this time some fans want to make a big deal where their is no real story or their is an obvious answer that everyone who can kinda connect the dots know will happen (i.e. Finger being buried).

 

[Gary Nylund]

If Kadri doesn't improve this season, he won't be #3C with us, never mind a #2C. His contract is up and I would wager the Leafs will re-sign Bernier over Kadri if Bernier can repeat his first 45 games last year.

We'll see what happens this year but no question, if I had to choose between the two right now I'd choose Bernier.

Well that's a logical argument!

Bozak was playing for the U of Denver when he was 23! Obcourse Kadri had more points in the NHL at 23. A bigger minus too!

I would give Kadri a bridge contract next year. 3M and sign Bernier to a longer term contract if he doesn't regress this year. Otherwise both get one year deals. Their best bets for a long term contract is for Nonis not be fired with the way he is signing mediocre players to long term contracts. But I wouldn't count on Nonis lasting another year.

Too early to decide on a figure you're willing to pay. Kadri's performance this year will obviously have an impact and TBH, I don't know what to expect him. You don't think very highly of him, others do ... 2nd full 82 game season coming up, we should find out what he's all about.

I actually see Kadri as a winger. If we ever need to trade Lupul to get a deal done salary wise, look for Kadri to take his spot and then having Holland, Kontiola, etc. taking over if it's this year or others (Nylander for example) if it's later.

Interesting idea. Worth a shot IMO.

Completely agree.

The OP is trying to make a story out of nothing. With the current roster we'll be fine in not going over the cap.

The OP is also imagining a worst possible case that has almost no chance ever happening at the very beginning of the season before we'd at least have some cap space banked.

Every year around this time some fans want to make a big deal where their is no real story or their is an obvious answer that everyone who can kinda connect the dots know will happen (i.e. Finger being buried).

Agree that it is a non-issue. Scanning out to the bigger picture though, the fact that we are up against the cap and the team is so bad does not make for happy thoughts.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

We'll see what happens this year but no question, if I had to choose between the two right now I'd choose Bernier.



Too early to decide on a figure you're willing to pay. Kadri's performance this year will obviously have an impact and TBH, I don't know what to expect him. You don't think very highly of him, others do ... 2nd full 82 game season coming up, we should find out what he's all about.



Interesting idea. Worth a shot IMO.



Agree that it is a non-issue. Scanning out to the bigger picture though, the fact that we are up against the cap and the team is so bad does not make for happy thoughts.

This team wasn't going to be fixed in one off-season.

This upcoming season is the first year of 3 of our top of the lineup players contracts who we've got locked up through their primes years in Kessel, Phaneuf, Gardiner.

After that we didn't get stuck with any long term contracts that will be hard to get out of but we did add a lot of depth that can be easily moved if need be on multi year contracts in Reimer, Komarov and Robidas.

Then we continued to add depth with bringing back Franson and adding guys like Booth, Winnik, Santorelli. Cap space can't be carried forward so these moves were no risk potentially high reward.

Next off-season the task is likely to lock up Kadri + Bernier long term through their prime years.

Toronto still has a ways to go but we are a very long way from the absolute shambles the entire organization was in with no top end talent or even depth of a few years ago. We had close to nothing worth noting around the time Fletcher/Burke came along but we're finally starting to assemble a lot of nice pieces.

It'll likely be another 2 or possibly even 3 years but I'm liking the overall direction management has been making this off-season (or even back to in-season if we count the Kessel + Phaneuf contracts) in locking up players for the big money deals who will be high performers through their deals and reserving cap space for the next round of players to lock up on big money/long term deals through their primes.

 

[Gary Nylund]

This team wasn't going to be fixed in one off-season.

This upcoming season is the first year of 3 of our top of the lineup players contracts who we've got locked up through their primes years in Kessel, Phaneuf, Gardiner.

After that we didn't get stuck with any long term contracts that will be hard to get out of but we did add a lot of depth that can be easily moved if need be on multi year contracts in Reimer, Komarov and Robidas.

Then we continued to add depth with bringing back Franson and adding guys like Booth, Winnik, Santorelli. Cap space can't be carried forward so these moves were no risk potentially high reward.

Next off-season the task is likely to lock up Kadri + Bernier long term through their prime years.

Toronto still has a ways to go but we are a very long way from the absolute shambles the entire organization was in with no top end talent or even depth of a few years ago. We had close to nothing worth noting around the time Fletcher/Burke came along but we're finally starting to assemble a lot of nice pieces.

It'll likely be another 2 or possibly even 3 years but I'm liking the overall direction management has been making this off-season (or even back to in-season if we count the Kessel + Phaneuf contracts) in locking up players for the big money deals who will be high performers through their deals and reserving cap space for the next round of players to lock up on big money/long term deals through their primes.

Agree Rome wasn't built in a day. Agree we have a lot of good pieces and had close to nothing a few years ago. Agree that we made good moves this off-season/in-season (mostly because no big risks = no big mistakes). So ... we would seem to be on track.

On the negative side, the last off-season was pretty bad and we will be paying the price for that for some time. Also, the "success" of this off-season is in my mind tempered by the fact that we apparently offered Bolland a long-term deal for 5 million a year, a move that would have really been dumb IMO and considerably reduces my faith that those in charge know what they're doing.

It's a strange place we're in. The team seemed to be pretty decent on paper last year, yet played so awful. Maybe this season the pieces magically come together, everyone starts caring, playing defense etc. Then again, maybe this season will be more of the same and we'll have another bottom 10 year. I don't see how anyone could tell with any certainty one way or the other.

 

[knorthern knight]

Completely agree.

The OP is trying to make a story out of nothing. With the current roster we'll be fine in not going over the cap.

The OP is also imagining a worst possible case that has almost no chance ever happening at the very beginning of the season before we'd at least have some cap space banked.

I'm pointing out that we're very close to the cap. Assuming no big trades, we're probably looking at Orr being sent down and Granberg brought up to give us 7 Dmen. That'll also save another $125,000 on the cap. And yes, if management is smart, they will start banking cap from day 1. Note that the thread title included "Strategy". I see a few options...

• Rielly and Granberg racking up frequent flyer miles between the Leafs and Marlies during longer breaks between games. They're the only waiver-exempt players I'm aware of.
• Try sneaking Winnik and Booth through waivers to the Marlies at the end of training camp, and run with 21 players on the Leafs' roster until injuries hit. End of TC is when just about every team is looking to trim its roster, and is least likely to pick up players on waivers. When an injury or 2 comes along, call one or both of them up as required. They'll probably be up for the season then.
• How difficult would it be to sweet-talk Clarkson into waiving his NMC, and accepting a stint with the Marlies? He doesn't have to worry about anybody snapping him up on the waiver wire.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

We'll see what happens this year but no question, if I had to choose between the two right now I'd choose Bernier.



Too early to decide on a figure you're willing to pay. Kadri's performance this year will obviously have an impact and TBH, I don't know what to expect him. You don't think very highly of him, others do ... 2nd full 82 game season coming up, we should find out what he's all about.



Interesting idea. Worth a shot IMO.



Agree that it is a non-issue. Scanning out to the bigger picture though, the fact that we are up against the cap and the team is so bad does not make for happy thoughts.

Leafs Cap Situation Gary. This situation might rear it's head this summer. Going to be interesting seeing who the Leafs lock up and who they don't.

If Bernier proves he is a #1G worthy of winning a couple of playoff rounds, then Nonis should lock him up which would basically give us no more room to sign anyone else as it stands. Bernier at 5M or 5.5M x 5 would put us at 59M for the 15 players signed through 15-16.

You don't have to be a mathematician to know this would give us just 10M at the present cap to sign the remaining 8 players. Franson and Kadri are the 2 big names that may be out in the cold.

And people claim we are not in a cap crunch?

http://www.capgeek.com/mapleleafs/

 

[Gallagbi]

Do people expect the cap to stay at 69 Mil with the new TV contract? Everything I've read/heard suggests another cap raise for 15-16

 

[King85Kong]

Its not hard to figure out. If both Kadri and Bernie get long term deals, that would mean that they both had another good season. And if they have good seasons, what do people expect, that the Leafs will just let them go? If they have sign long term then we have guys to move like Franson, Bozak, Lupul, Polak among others. We also have a bunch of guys with only one year remaining. On top of that the cap will be rising. Sign your young skilled players, move your older players, and replace them from within.The cycle of good teams.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Leafs Cap Situation Gary. This situation might rear it's head this summer. Going to be interesting seeing who the Leafs lock up and who they don't.

If Bernier proves he is a #1G worthy of winning a couple of playoff rounds, then Nonis should lock him up which would basically give us no more room to sign anyone else as it stands. Bernier at 5M or 5.5M x 5 would put us at 59M for the 15 players signed through 15-16.

You don't have to be a mathematician to know this would give us just 10M at the present cap to sign the remaining 8 players. Franson and Kadri are the 2 big names that may be out in the cold.

And people claim we are not in a cap crunch?

http://www.capgeek.com/mapleleafs/

There will be money for both Bernier and Kadri. If they get big money deals then that means they're doing something right and are players worth having.

Firstly, the cap should rise. If it doesn't players and team will be affected league wide. Not just the Leafs. Other teams would feel that cap crunch far more then us.

Franson is almost certainly not with the team after this season. It won't be a big loss either because Gardiner + Rielly will be able to take on elevated PP roles. 5 on 5 Franson's minutes won't be hard to fill and we've got 2 good candidates in Granberg + Percy who could be ready.

Very good chance Reimer is also not here next season and we fill his spot with a backup who will come in cheaper.

Rielly + Holland and even Frattin should all be ready for elevated roles and are locked into deals for the 15-16 season. A few other youngsters like Nylander, Leivo, Finn, Carrick, Nilsson pretty close to NHL duties.

 

[Stephen]

They need to be rid of a Lupul contract and Granberg needs to make an impact so they an shift out the Franson money and hopefully they can find a cheaper backup than Reimer.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

There will be money for both Bernier and Kadri. If they get big money deals then that means they're doing something right and are players worth having.

Firstly, the cap should rise. If it doesn't players and team will be affected league wide. Not just the Leafs. Other teams would feel that cap crunch far more then us.

Franson is almost certainly not with the team after this season. It won't be a big loss either because Gardiner + Rielly will be able to take on elevated PP roles. 5 on 5 Franson's minutes won't be hard to fill and we've got 2 good candidates in Granberg + Percy who could be ready.

Very good chance Reimer is also not here next season and we fill his spot with a backup who will come in cheaper.

Rielly + Holland and even Frattin should all be ready for elevated roles and are locked into deals for the 15-16 season. A few other youngsters like Nylander, Leivo, Finn, Carrick, Nilsson pretty close to NHL duties.

If Bernier gets a #1G comparable contract. That will leave us with 10M to sign 8 players to our 23 man roster.

Leafs are locked in with a lot of immovable contracts and the best ones JVR and Bozak only save 8.45M for 2 spots in the top 6.

Surely we are not moving our best cap hits.

10M to sign 8 players, I am not sure how one can make the claim we are in good shape.

Here's the kicker, if Leafs move Lupul, Clarkson, or Dion. Nonis will take back salary and this would be counterproductive. Which is almost assured as in the Gunnarson deal.

This Management group has been abysmal with their cap management. Tying up mediocre assets.

It's all here on cap geek:

http://www.capgeek.com/mapleleafs/

 

[King85Kong]

If Bernier gets a #1G comparable contract. That will leave us with 10M to sign 8 players to our 23 man roster.

Leafs are locked in with a lot of immovable contracts and the best ones JVR and Bozak only save 8.45M for 2 spots in the top 6.

Surely we are not moving our best cap hits.

10M to sign 8 players, I am not sure how one can make the claim we are in good shape.

Here's the kicker, if Leafs move Lupul, Clarkson, or Dion. Nonis will take back salary and this would be counterproductive. Which is almost assured as in the Gunnarson deal.

This Management group has been abysmal with their cap management. Tying up mediocre assets.

It's all here on cap geek:

http://www.capgeek.com/mapleleafs/

So do you suggest that we let our skilled young players walk then? Or should we trade others to keep them, which has been shown in previous posts?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

So do you suggest that we let our skilled young players walk then? Or should we trade others to keep them, which has been shown in previous posts?

What do you mean by skilled players?

I have been crystal clear in this thread. Repeated this stance about 7 times already.

I want us to lock up quality core players, like LA and Chicago has. Not lock up mediocre players that couldn't hold a stick close to the 7 players these teams have locked up.

Do you disagree with how Cup winners Chicago and LA operate?

What have the Leafs won with these core players to warrant this core being together for 3 to 8 years?

 

[King85Kong]

What do you mean by skilled players?

I have been crystal clear in this thread. Repeated this stance about 7 times already.

I want us to lock up quality core players, like LA and Chicago has. Not lock up mediocre players that couldn't hold a stick close to the 7 players these teams have locked up.

Do you disagree with how Cup winners Chicago and LA operate?

What have the Leafs won with these core players to warrant this core being together for 3 to 8 years?

Then why did you support the Clarkson signing (5or7 years)?
You claim Bozak to be part of the core, but I'm sure you are against trading him. He has been the one centering the worst defensive line in the league. You are speaking from both sides of your mouth.
And teams like LA and Hawks signed their young players knowing that they too will improve. Its not like we can magically go out and sign all-stars at will.
Kadri and Bernie will both be signed to around 5 year deals, and other players will be moved and replaced. They are harder to replace then others on our team.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Then why did you support the Clarkson signing (5or7 years)?
You claim Bozak to be part of the core, but I'm sure you are against trading him. He has been the one centering the worst defensive line in the league. You are speaking from both sides of your mouth.
And teams like LA and Hawks signed their young players knowing that they too will improve. Its not like we can magically go out and sign all-stars at will.
Kadri and Bernie will both be signed to around 5 year deals, and other players will be moved and replaced. They are harder to replace then others on our team.

Chicago and LA have rewarded their players after winning the Cup. Big difference to the Leafs incase that slipped your observations.

 

[King85Kong]

Chicago and LA have rewarded their players after winning the Cup. Big difference to the Leafs incase that slipped your observations.

So we should only re-sign our players after we win a cup? That might make it hard to field a team. Plus individual and team success is two different things. You can be a great player on a bad team, or a bad player on a good team.