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LD Ty Smith - Spokane Chiefs, WHL (2018, 17th, NJD)

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ZuccsFluffierFluffer said:
Save yourself the time, he's probably right though I think the offensive numbers will be a bit better. Hes a transition machine so he'll get points just based on that alone.
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I think a realistic hope for him is to have the impact of a prime Andy Greene. He has potential for more than that, especially offensively, but a prime Andy Greene was a legit top pair defenseman and at one point had an argument for being a top 30 guy in the league. Sadly those days are long gone though.
 
ZuccsFluffierFluffer said:
Save yourself the time, he's probably right though I think the offensive numbers will be a bit better. Hes a transition machine so he'll get points just based on that alone.
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i appreciate your savvy time management advice, but i disagree. i could easily see him on our top pairing within 3 years, putting up consistent .5 PPG seasons
 
NYRKing said:
Imo Makar and Hughes are separate from the pack. Why do you see Smith being better than Brannstrom Dobson Bouchard? Honestly, if I had my pick it would be Brannstrom or Smith, but curious to know why Smith is way better in your opinion.
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Smith is younger and has less holes in his game. Obviously I need to see both at the NHL level but right now Smith, Hughes, and Makar have quite a gap ahead of the rest imo.

I also think Smith has a much higher chance of succeeding in New Jersey than Brannstrom does in Ottawa. New Jersey always seems to get the best out of their players, and Ottawa, well.... (I know Chabot's doing well now but watch for him to be on another roster in 4 years unless some major changes happen in Ottawa)
 
Stive Morgan said:
Smith is younger and has less holes in his game. Obviously I need to see both at the NHL level but right now Smith, Hughes, and Makar have quite a gap ahead of the rest imo.

I also think Smith has a much higher chance of succeeding in New Jersey than Brannstrom does in Ottawa. New Jersey always seems to get the best out of their players, and Ottawa, well.... (I know Chabot's doing well now but watch for him to be on another roster in 4 years unless some major changes happen in Ottawa)
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Lol what?

NJ's player development has been complete and utter ass. Ottawa is a tire fire, but they've done a pretty good job of churning out NHL'ers, a much better job than NJ at least.
 
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ZuccsFluffierFluffer said:
Lol what?

NJ's player development has been complete and utter ass. Ottawa is a tire fire, but they've done a pretty good job of churning out NHL'ers, a much better job than NJ at least.
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I think you are conflating the last years of the old regime with the new regime. NJ has developed a slew of guys in the past couple of years. Most of whom have yet to hit their peak. Wood, Coleman, Severson, Butcher, Blackwood, Hischier, Bratt, with more on the way. Granted some guys have not progressed at all and some have not progressed as hoped but that's probably normal for any organization. Simply slogging an organization with broad brush strokes is unnecessary and over simplification.
 
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My3Sons said:
I think you are conflating the last years of the old regime with the new regime. NJ has developed a slew of guys in the past couple of years. Most of whom have yet to hit their peak. Wood, Coleman, Severson, Butcher, Blackwood, Hischier, Bratt, with more on the way. Granted some guys have not progressed at all and some have not progressed as hoped but that's probably normal for any organization. Simply slogging an organization with broad brush strokes is unnecessary and over simplification.
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You kind of made my point for me.

A pair of third line players, an okay 2nd pair D, a third pair PP specialist, a promising goalie, a 1OA who has simply just been okay and Bratt who was a nice find.

I'd take Chabot over any of those guys.
 
ZuccsFluffierFluffer said:
You kind of made my point for me.

A pair of third line players, an okay 2nd pair D, a third pair PP specialist, a promising goalie, a 1OA who has simply just been okay and Bratt who was a nice find.

I'd take Chabot over any of those guys.
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If you are only talking about top pair D or top line forwards being made out of lower round picks I'm not sure that any team is great at that. I also think you are giving Hischier short shrift. He's been much better than OK. Chabot was a mid first round pick who has panned out well. That's not really shocking or proof of much. Bratt is much more of a find than a mid first developing to his potential. Player development in my view is more about turning lower picks into productive NHL players. Stocking your third and fourth lines with young cost effective guys is how you have to fill out a team in the cap era. Your view of it may be different but to suggest Smith won't turn out well based on NJ's recent young player development track record is shortsighted in my view.
 
My3Sons said:
If you are only talking about top pair D or top line forwards being made out of lower round picks I'm not sure that any team is great at that. I also think you are giving Hischier short shrift. He's been much better than OK. Chabot was a mid first round pick who has panned out well. That's not really shocking or proof of much. Bratt is much more of a find than a mid first developing to his potential. Player development in my view is more about turning lower picks into productive NHL players. Stocking your third and fourth lines with young cost effective guys is how you have to fill out a team in the cap era. Your view of it may be different but to suggest Smith won't turn out well based on NJ's recent young player development track record is shortsighted in my view.
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Thats not why. I think he'll be just fine, hes a good player but I wasn't the one making that argument...

One of your fellow Devil fans said that Smith will have a better chance to succeed in NJ than in Ottawa because of player development - I'm just pointing out that if we're talking about player development, Ottawa has a much better history of success than the Devils do. Even under Shero, that isn't exactly much to brag about.
 
ZuccsFluffierFluffer said:
He hasn’t been anything special.

Don’t worry though, once you land Hughes he’ll slot in on the 2nd line where he belongs long term.
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Saying Hischier hasnt been anything special just dismisses the rest of your opinions in the thread

Take a hike and try watching hockey outside of New York
 
ZuccsFluffierFluffer said:
Thats not why. I think he'll be just fine, hes a good player but I wasn't the one making that argument...

One of your fellow Devil fans said that Smith will have a better chance to succeed in NJ than in Ottawa because of player development - I'm just pointing out that if we're talking about player development, Ottawa has a much better history of success than the Devils do. Even under Shero, that isn't exactly much to brag about.
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What's OTT track record of player development in the past three or four years? I'm skeptical it's anything special. I think most of the time the best players are the top draft picks which again isn't that surprising or proof of great player development. Moreover, evaluating NJ anything before the 2016 season is intellectually false given the turn over of the entire organization. That said I'd suggest that the current NJ environment is pretty good despite the terrible finish. I'm not sure what OTT's atmosphere is like right now but the public perception isn't great. My guess is NJ is competent in terms of player development these days.
 
My3Sons said:
What's OTT track record of player development in the past three or four years? I'm skeptical it's anything special. I think most of the time the best players are the top draft picks which again isn't that surprising or proof of great player development. Moreover, evaluating NJ anything before the 2016 season is intellectually false given the turn over of the entire organization. That said I'd suggest that the current NJ environment is pretty good despite the terrible finish. I'm not sure what OTT's atmosphere is like right now but the public perception isn't great. My guess is NJ is competent in terms of player development these days.
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Chabot, Tkachuk, White just in the last year. They also have Drake Batherson (who was a later round pick and was fairly productive in the NHL when he played) and Alex Formenton on the way.

Remember this wasn't a team that was exactly rebuilding, they've traded away 2 of the better players they've ever drafted and developed in Karlsson and Stone (Hoffman was one of theirs too, but yeah these picks were a while ago, though Stone may have been in the same draft as Coleman.)
 
ZuccsFluffierFluffer said:
Hes like the least productive non Yakupov 1OA forward since the lockout through 2 seasons.

But like I said its okay, you'll be able to slot him where he belongs long term once you take Hughes.
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19 even strength goals 27 even strength assists as a rookie. That’s more even strength goals than MacKinnon had as a rookie and 3 less assists. He was one of the most productive even strength players in the league as a rookie (durrr product of Hall). He also out produced him in year 2. Don’t know where he goes from here, but I sure would’ve loved to see your takes on MacKinnon from 2014-17.

It is pretty sweet that he’ll probably be on line 2 in the future tho. Say, weren’t you stinking up the Hughes thread too? Hmm.
 
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Hischier and Hughes said:
so then Zibanejad wasnt a 1C either before this season, right?

I mean Hischier only outproduced every one of Mika’s previous seasons - and Nico was 18-19 years old lmfao
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Nico also rode shotgun to the MVP of the league and mooched a ton of points off of him in his rookie year.

Lets see Nico post a 70 point season, then we'll talk.
 
ZuccsFluffierFluffer said:
Chabot, Tkachuk, White just in the last year. They also have Drake Batherson (who was a later round pick and was fairly productive in the NHL when he played) and Alex Formenton on the way.

Remember this wasn't a team that was exactly rebuilding, they've traded away 2 of the better players they've ever drafted and developed in Karlsson and Stone (Hoffman was one of theirs too, but yeah these picks were a while ago, though Stone may have been in the same draft as Coleman.)
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Telling me that first round picks succeeded isn't that big of a deal. You may be correct but I think looking at guys like Batherson and Formenton is premature.
 
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