LD Rasmus Dahlin (2018, 1st, BUF) Part 3

[Snippit]

He has a negative corsi, negative fenwick, negative +/-, more offensive zone starts than defensive zone starts and an even giveaway to takeaway ratio.

Don't forget he's also playing massively sheltered minutes and is supposed to be this generational D-man.

But tell me more about "how good he's been in defense."

Let's not even get into his half baked offensive game.

Corsi, Fenwick, +/- are team stats

You are out of your mind if you think an 18 year old defenceman should be able to tilt the ice that much.

In general, if your team is getting out played at ES, one player probably isn't going to make a difference.

I hate when people use these stats without actually understanding their statistical significance, in an attempt to try and come across as intelligent. It only demonstrates the opposite.

 

[Tapu Coco]

He has a negative corsi, negative fenwick, negative +/-, more offensive zone starts than defensive zone starts and an even giveaway to takeaway ratio.

Don't forget he's also playing massively sheltered minutes and is supposed to be this generational D-man.

But tell me more about "how good he's been in defense."

Let's not even get into his half baked offensive game.

He played 22 minutes in his debut.

 

[theslatcher]

He played 22 minutes in his debut.

Also wrong about more o-zone starts than d-zone, he's actually 50/50 atm.

 

[returnofthemack29]

I’m an Avs fan and watched his entire last game and I wasn’t impressed. He’s probably going to develop into a #1 D, but that’s still a far cry from his “generational” status. A 19 year old Sam Girard was way more impressive last year than what I saw from Dahlin. And I know it’s only 1 game, but I don’t think that he’s generational. As soon as people realize that, then they can adjust their expectations for the kid. All I’m saying is that he’s not the McDavid of defensemen, as some people were claiming pre-draft.

 

[le_sean]

He’s an 18 year old with ridiculous amounts of pressure put on him by the media. He also plays in Buffalo which is akin to playing in a Canadian market, so that puts even more pressure on him. It also doesn’t help that he has zero teammates that can mentor him. It’s a young group. He needs to get used to the NA ice on top of that.

People need to relax. He’ll find his groove.

 

[ccman68]

I don't remember Dahlin being called generational at all.. until Buffalo won the draft lottery. I always found it pretty suspicious and now that i've seen him play (and yes 4 games is enough) i've come to the conclusion that he is just a franchise player and will be around Hedman/Doughty level in his career and probably win a couple Norris trophies. Nothing about him is generational though.. with Mcdavid for example you could see after one game that he was something special but Dahlin just looks doesn't look that good.

 

[Kcb12345]

I’m an Avs fan and watched his entire last game and I wasn’t impressed. He’s probably going to develop into a #1 D, but that’s still a far cry from his “generational” status. A 19 year old Sam Girard was way more impressive last year than what I saw from Dahlin. And I know it’s only 1 game, but I don’t think that he’s generational. As soon as people realize that, then they can adjust their expectations for the kid. All I’m saying is that he’s not the McDavid of defensemen, as some people were claiming pre-draft.

I thought he showed a lot of potential last night. His physical defensive play is what caught my eye, but I noticed guys would still manage to get away from him even after it appeared he was gonna make a good physical play on them. That's where he will have to get better and definitely will over time. He was letting too many guys get away from him after it would like like he was gonna make a really good play. He needs to pin them against the boards or learn to use his stick better when going in like that on someone cause they'd then break free and he would lay off and they'd set someone up for a chance. Other than that his game was solid and over time he will fix that portion of his game as well and become a dominant force in his own end.

 

[stampedingviking]

defensemen should only be able to put up points according to hfboards, and when they do ala erik karlsson he should play more defense.

you can never win

Should revise that comment to "according to Leafs fans".

 

[stampedingviking]

I wouldn't be so harsh on the kid if people weren't talking about him easily scoring 50 points this season, running away with the Calder, possibly being in the conversation for the Norris right out of the gate etc.

The kid's hype before the draft was enormous and lots of fans called him a generational defenseman, so when you put that sort of expectation on this kid don't play the "he's still young and defenseman take a long time to develop" card.

He'll be lucky to put up 30 points this season and isn't going to be in serious contention for the Calder.

Dahlin obviously has a ton of potential, but he's still very much a work in progress and nowhere near this guaranteed franchise player people were pegging him to be before the draft.

Nothing is certain about this kid and with the track record Buffalo has with it's development of their top prospects things aren't nearly as bright as they seem.

Not seen that, maybe if he played for the Leafs that would be the case.

 

[gretskidoo]

This thread is certainly a display of this forum at its worst.

 

[bottomofthefoodchain]

Aaanyway the kid is a sponge. He will make mistakes like all players do, and learn from them

 

[ijuka]

Corsi, Fenwick, +/- are team stats

You are out of your mind if you think an 18 year old defenceman should be able to tilt the ice that much.

In general, if your team is getting out played at ES, one player probably isn't going to make a difference.

I hate when people use these stats without actually understanding their statistical significance, in an attempt to try and come across as intelligent. It only demonstrates the opposite.

He is negative in rel stats. Meaning the rest of that terrible team does better without him than with, adv stats wise.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Erik Karlsson was brutal the first week of his NHL career.

Dahlin has not played well, but he's a rookie and has made minor improvements each game. If you do one thing right out of 1000 on Day 1, then two things right out of 1000 on Day 2 and three out of 1000 on Day 3, then guess what? You're improving.

Only a matter of time until Dahlin's mistakes are dwarfed by his accomplishments.

People bashing him obviously have some sort of agenda. Even if Heiskanen or Lajoie outperform him this particular season, that doesn't mean Dahlin's path to stardom will be permanently blocked.

 

[DDRhockey]

Erik Karlsson was brutal the first week of his NHL career.

Dahlin has not played well, but he's a rookie and has made minor improvements each game. If you do one thing right out of 1000 on Day 1, then two things right out of 1000 on Day 2 and three out of 1000 on Day 3, then guess what? You're improving.

Only a matter of time until Dahlin's mistakes are dwarfed by his accomplishments.

People bashing him obviously have some sort of agenda. Even if Heiskanen or Lajoie outperform him this particular season, that doesn't mean Dahlin's path to stardom will be permanently blocked.

yeah it took hedman 4 seasons before he shone.

edit: Steven Stamkos had a slow start to his career.

edit2: so did joe thornton

 

[BowieSabresFan]

Erik Karlsson was brutal the first week of his NHL career.

Dahlin has not played well, but he's a rookie and has made minor improvements each game. If you do one thing right out of 1000 on Day 1, then two things right out of 1000 on Day 2 and three out of 1000 on Day 3, then guess what? You're improving.

Only a matter of time until Dahlin's mistakes are dwarfed by his accomplishments.

People bashing him obviously have some sort of agenda. Even if Heiskanen or Lajoie outperform him this particular season, that doesn't mean Dahlin's path to stardom will be permanently blocked.

Except the general consensus, particularly among Sabre’s fans who have watched every minute of his 4 games, is that he has played very well, and is already the best of the Sabres defensemen.

 

[Slangston]

I must be living in bizaro world, because from what I've seen he's been awesome.

 

[DDRhockey]

I must be living in bizaro world, because from what I've seen he's been awesome.

people had too high of expectations, hyped him to be Orr+Lidstrom at the age of 18.

 

[Slangston]

people had too high of expectations, hyped him to be Orr+Lidstrom at the age of 18.

I don't think it's a matter of expectations, I think what we're observing here is people clinging to their agendas.

 

[Boxscore]

I must be living in bizaro world, because from what I've seen he's been awesome.

You're not - Dahlin has been very good.

But, hockey fans are living in an age where everything is judged by one thing - offense. Not only fans, but the NHL as a whole.

YouTube and Social Media are driven by jaw-dropping, offensive highlights. Players are based on their production. Bonuses in contracts are triggered based on production.

The trend in the NHL has been pushing offense, offense, offense. The drafting of smaller, skilled players. The 3-on-3 overtime. The amount of defensemen scoring a lot of points and generating offense from the back-end continues to grow.

Dahlin has played 4 games and has 1 point. If he was a fixture on the PP and had 4 points in 4 games, nobody would be questioning his impact. We'd be all saying, "an 18 year old defensman has started his career as a point-per-game player!" That narrative would be pushed all through the media as well. Look at Auston Matthews... in the playoffs when he was struggling, the narrative of some in the media was, "Is Matthews really a franchise player?" Now that he's off to an amazing start, you see Tweets like the one from Craig Button the other night stating that "McDavid and Matthews is a Gretzky and Lemieux situation." Offense is king. Period.

I keep harping on Housley not giving Dahlin PP time and some of you keep saying, "be patient" and "it's only 4 games" and "vets like Okposo DESERVE their place on the PP" and all that nonsense. For the life of me, I can't see how this not universally considered incompetence by coach Phil Housley.

Dahlin will be judged by his offense. Dahlin's confidence will be boosted or damaged by his offense (or lack there of). Dahlin was positioned as (and is) a dynamic, offensively-gifted, two-way defenseman. Watching him play now, he looks like "the next Vlasic" and it's all because of Housely not giving this kid the opportunity to showcase his immense offensive talent, which he would on the PP.

The Sabres were supposed to be this young, ripe, refreshed team of super prospects that would take the next step. Even if there were losses, bumps in the road, and 7-3 blowouts, fans were expecting a fun, energetic, exciting team. I've watched every Sabres game this season and it's been the exact opposite of that. We see guys like Okposo and Sheary hogging all the PP time, while creative, young talent such as Dahlin and Mittelstadt are put on the back burner. Housley is suffocating all of the "fun" and "excitement" from this team. Give the keys to the kids and ride or die with them. When the Leafs did this a few years ago, they shocked the world, made it to the playoffs and won the hearts of hockey fans.

I don't care if Dahlin makes mistakes, like every other rookie defenseman in NHL history (including Orr). But I want him logging tons of ice time, learning on the job, and getting all the PP time he can handle so he can start putting up some points and gaining confidence. He is a special prospect and player, yet the clown Housley has him wrapped in bubble wrap and is icing, perhaps, one of the most boring teams in the NHL. For the life of me, I can't understand why.

 

[sabrebuild]

I've said this before, pre draft, Dhalin is not a generational prospect.

You also thought Lawson Crouse was a superstar.

 

[tsujimoto74]

I’m an Avs fan and watched his entire last game and I wasn’t impressed. He’s probably going to develop into a #1 D, but that’s still a far cry from his “generational” status. A 19 year old Sam Girard was way more impressive last year than what I saw from Dahlin. And I know it’s only 1 game, but I don’t think that he’s generational. As soon as people realize that, then they can adjust their expectations for the kid. All I’m saying is that he’s not the McDavid of defensemen, as some people were claiming pre-draft.

Nick Lidstrom was once -4 in a game. That guy sucked.

 

[winnipegger]

geez cut the 18 year old some slack. Playing in the league at 18 is an accomplishment itself. Hardly anyone can do that, nevermind on defense. If he just gets through the year and isn't completely terrible that is a good start. Players his age can make giant leaps from 18 - 19 - 20 - 21.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Lets all return to these Dahlin arguments 2-3 years from now, because then he actually is playing up to his potential.

 

[Goulet17]

I thought he showed a lot of potential last night. His physical defensive play is what caught my eye, but I noticed guys would still manage to get away from him even after it appeared he was gonna make a good physical play on them. That's where he will have to get better and definitely will over time. He was letting too many guys get away from him after it would like like he was gonna make a really good play. He needs to pin them against the boards or learn to use his stick better when going in like that on someone cause they'd then break free and he would lay off and they'd set someone up for a chance. Other than that his game was solid and over time he will fix that portion of his game as well and become a dominant force in his own end.

He needs to get stronger and add muscle mass, which is not unusual given his age. It will happen as he physically matures.

I thought he really stood out against the Avs in a positive way, particularly his skating. He really impressed me with his skating along the blueline in the offensive zone with his lateral agility and quickness. He easily evaded Avs' forwards trying to pressure him along the blueline on several occasions.

All in all, I witnessed nothing that changes my opinion that he will be a stud in time. I also thought Eichel was very impressive. Between the two of them, the Sabres have their franchise pieces at the most important positions (no. 1 center and no. 1 defenseman).

 

[chi777]

Erik Karlsson was brutal the first week of his NHL career.

Karlson also had a 60/40 o-zone to d-zone start ratio, a -5, and put up a whopping 26, points his first year. He turned out pretty well. That was also on a much better OTT team than the current Sabres team who bleed shots against no matter who's on the ice.

He's made some good plays and some mistakes. Sadly, he has to develop under the Sabres and Housley so who know's how that effects his development. It also doesn't help that the Sabers don't have an above average vet d-man to help mentor him.

Anyone who wants to rush to judgement on this kid after only 4 games is a lunatic.