LD Lane Hutson - Montreal Canadiens, NHL (2022, 62nd, MTL) - Part 2

[jfhabs]

-Yes, Hutson has struggled a little defensively this year.
-He's 20. Virtually no defensemen are high level players in their own end at that age, because so much of being good defensively is experience and being comfortable in systems. He'll continue to get better there.
-The good of the offense that he brings already significantly outweighs the bad. He's a net positive defenseman at 20 years old playing top pair minutes. That's incredibly promising.

If that is struggling defensively , please give me more defenseman struggling defensively like he has

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Some of those moves actually look hilarious and silly. Over the top.

The word you’re looking for is “effective”

 

[Frolov 6'3]

The word you’re looking for is “effective”

Nah, I would not be surprised to see a double axel soon.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Nah, I would not be surprised to see a double axel soon.

Cope it out my man

 

[Frank Drebin]

I admit that Hutson's detractors look at fancy stats too much to try and devalue what Hutson has been doing this year.

But there is still quite a substantial kernel of truth to what they're saying.

As he is right now, Hutson is amazing for transition and offensive play, unarguably amongst the elite of the NHL as far as playmaking goes, and he has started being a better defender against the rush.

But Lane Hutson still struggles against the cycle, is similarly downright bad at boxing-out forwards near the net, and not really a good player for battles along the boards.

Hutson has also gotten much better at controlling his turnovers but still commits quite a few of those since he has the puck on his stick so much during the course of a game.

Those are flaws to Hutson's game right now, plain and simple. But he's also only 20, a rookie, and far from a finished product.

With a couple more adjustments here and there, he'll get a lot better defensively and I think will be amongst the elite of the NHL for offensive defenseman for the foreseeable future.

With Hutson's elite hockey IQ and insane work ethic, it is not a good bet to put stakes against him. Hutson's already started to "figure out" how to play a tighter defensive game after only about half-a-season, with more time he'll likely get even better.

So yeah, that's about where I stand on that issue.

Also, this thread should be closed. hutson isn't a prospect anymore and should be treated as a full-time pro, thus being discussed in the "National Hockey League Talk" sub-forum.

Hutson had a thread on the mains that got closed. Lots of NHL players still have and need prospect threads to discuss the player.

 

[RedHawkDown]

There's really no comparable to him in the league right now in terms of style of play.... He's incredibly cheeky , borderline disrespectful with how he attacks and baits guys with the puck on his stick. , its hilarious how nobody even pressures him anymore. Rookie 20 year old 5"7 dman going through guys like it's a beer league game, Its a little bit uncanny.

I agree he’s fantastic but it’s a bit strange to say there’s no comparable. If you changed the name on the back of his jersey to Makar, that’s exactly how he walks the line. Except Makar is faster.

 

[Frank Drebin]

I agree he’s fantastic but it’s a bit strange to say there’s no comparable. If you changed the name on the back of his jersey to Makar, that’s exactly how he walks the line. Except Makar is faster.

Makar has a much better wrist shot as well.

I can’t wait to see what kind of player hutson develops into though. I really think he’ll be a top 10 defender in the league with the right partner

 

[Legend123]

Step 1: use stats
Step 2: complain that any stat that say something you don't like is fake
Step 3: accuse any person who disagrees with you of not watching games.

If the only people qualified enough to apparently judge MTL players are, checks notes, diehard MTL homers who watch every game, that will totally be the best and most accurate way to judge players. If you did that across the league you'd end up with top 50 players lists filled with 200 players as every fanbase is convinced that somehow numbers hate their team specifically.

I've never come across a bigger anti hutson activist than u

 

[Gravity]

I admit that Hutson's detractors look at fancy stats too much to try and devalue what Hutson has been doing this year.

But there is still quite a substantial kernel of truth to what they're saying.

As he is right now, Hutson is amazing for transition and offensive play, unarguably amongst the elite of the NHL as far as playmaking goes, and he has started being a better defender against the rush.

But Lane Hutson still struggles against the cycle, is similarly downright bad at boxing-out forwards near the net, and not really a good player for battles along the boards.

Hutson has also gotten much better at controlling his turnovers but still commits quite a few of those since he has the puck on his stick so much during the course of a game.

Those are flaws to Hutson's game right now, plain and simple. But he's also only 20, a rookie, and far from a finished product.

With a couple more adjustments here and there, he'll get a lot better defensively and I think will be amongst the elite of the NHL for offensive defenseman for the foreseeable future.

With Hutson's elite hockey IQ and insane work ethic, it is not a good bet to put stakes against him. Hutson's already started to "figure out" how to play a tighter defensive game after only about half-a-season, with more time he'll likely get even better.

So yeah, that's about where I stand on that issue.

Also, this thread should be closed. hutson isn't a prospect anymore and should be treated as a full-time pro, thus being discussed in the "National Hockey League Talk" sub-forum.

Only truthful post here amidst the sea of Habs homers and weird Devils fans with a fetish for dumping on Hutson.
As a Habs fan, he is quasi-average defensively but will only get better as you stipulated.

 

[CaviarAndRinkFries]

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

He also looked horrible defensively tonight.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

He also looked horrible defensively tonight.

His games against Toronto and tonight against Detroit were abysmal

 

[Frank Drebin]

He’s looked a little shaky since that Toronto game imo

Long season

 

[jfhabs]

He also looked horrible defensively tonight.

Probably his worst game in a while. Matheson and the rest of the team were off as well tonight.

 

[dgibb10]

He had a good defensive stretch in december and early january but that is gone now.

It's been ugly defensively for the last 5 from both the eye test and the numbers. I didn't even think the Tor game was that bad (not good, but not awful)

5 xGA/60 against in that stretch (actual goals also line up), and enough to drop him all the way down to 168th/170 qualifying dmen (500 minutes).

Only the Thrun-Ceci pair ranks worse now.

Still very much elite offensively tho.

But trying to say "average" defensively is about as accurate as saying he's average offensively.

 

[dgibb10]

He’s looked a little shaky since that Toronto game imo

Long season

2-15 in terms of on ice high danger chances in the last 2 games is not quite ideal fs. He'll bounce back tho.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

2-15 in terms of on ice high danger chances in the last 2 games is not quite ideal fs. He'll bounce back tho.

It has been VERY rough though he seemed much better in the NYR game. TOR and DET games were downright ugly from him.

 

[dgibb10]

It has been VERY rough though he seemed much better in the NYR game. TOR and DET games were downright ugly from him.

Shit happens with young guys and defense, nothing to worry about tbh, although maybe a bit of a wakeup call to Habs fans claiming his defense was permanently fixed after a decent stretch. (although I doubt it, something tells me the same thing will happen the next time he gets on a stretch of decent defense)

Yeah he COOKED vs the rags.

He had a very promising stretch for about a month or so defensively starting in mid december, which imo lead to his overall body of work defensively being heavily overrated (just look at all the messages of "he's above average defensively")

Fluctuating defense, consistent offense is the mark of guys like this. When the defense is on a high, they look like the best dman in the world, when it's on a low, shit gets UGLY, and in general they're poor defensively but more than make up for it the other way.

 

[Golden_Jet]

As hard as people try, you can't take away what Hutson has been able to do this year. If you look at the list of past rookies who have accomplished what he already has this season, you'll realize he's in some pretty prestigious company. And I think he has been fine defensively, that part of his game is being completely overblown. It makes sense though, he's naturally going to get a lot of heat/hate playing for one of the major market teams.

No his defensive stats 5 on 5 are not overblown, they’ve been posted in this thread.
They’ve been shown relative to his own teammates and vs the league,
It’s ok to say he’s great offensively and poor defensively at 5 on 5.

 

[Frank Drebin]

2-15 in terms of on ice high danger chances in the last 2 games is not quite ideal fs. He'll bounce back tho.

I really hope hughes spends some draft capital to find a proper partner for him this summer
He’s running around and making rushed plays in his own end and while i like matheson both he and Hutson have too much ying and very little yang

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Shit happens with young guys and defense, nothing to worry about tbh, although maybe a bit of a wakeup call to Habs fans claiming his defense was permanently fixed after a decent stretch. (although I doubt it, something tells me the same thing will happen the next time he gets on a stretch of decent defense)

Yeah he COOKED vs the rags.

He had a very promising stretch for about a month or so defensively starting in mid december, which imo lead to his overall body of work defensively being heavily overrated (just look at all the messages of "he's above average defensively")

Fluctuating defense, consistent offense is the mark of guys like this. When the defense is on a high, they look like the best dman in the world, when it's on a low, shit gets UGLY, and in general they're poor defensively but more than make up for it the other way.

Agreed

He needs an Ekholm

 

[dgibb10]

Agreed

He needs an Ekholm

I think every dman in the league would benefit from an ekholm lol, but I agree.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Agreed

He needs an Ekholm

Before anyone says rein
Ekholm wasn’t ekholm till he was 25
We need a vet on the right side for the next 3-5 years

 

[dgibb10]

I really hope hughes spends some draft capital to find a proper partner for him this summer
He’s running around and making rushed plays in his own end and while i like matheson both he and Hutson have too much ying and very little yang

I think carrier was a good start but yeah another vet quality RD should be a big target. (and tbh even an LD if they have space for it and find a buyer for Matheson).

If Marcus Pettersson was an RHD he would be literal perfection imo

Going back a year Pesce, Roy, and Tanev all would have been great vets to fit in

 

[dgibb10]

I just don't know how you can throw out one single stat, which is inferred, calculated and assumed in some capacity, and plop it out there as if its some sort of proof about a defining characteristic of a player.

If he truly was historically awful defensively, as these advanced stats suggest, playing beside Mike Matheson who is not known for his defensive prowess either, how the heck is Montreal winning hockey games at the rate they are with these 2 non playing defense jokers playing over 20 minutes a game?

These stats aren't suggesting hes poor defensively. Or below average. Theyre suggesting that he's the worst defensive defenseman for his age in 20 years.

If you don't believe that then your stat is useless. If you do believe that then your opinion is worthless.

Offense has exploded recently so not quite so much (and again keep in mind it's about 3 20 year old dmen a year reaching that level of ice time to meet 600 minutes 5v5) but they do say he's quite poor defensively, which he is.

A comparable 20 year old this year would be Mintyukov. Who is right around Hutson in terms of what they give up. Hutson however is lightyears ahead in terms of what he generates.

And maybe "poor defensively" is being interpreted somewhat inaccurately in terms of what I'm trying to say.

If he's taking chances and generating offense, it can lead to a lot of chances for, but will inevitably open things up the other way. I view that as a part of defense, others view defense as simply like puck battles, or 1 on 1 stops, or blocks, (the physical act of defending rather than the ability to limit chances against)

Really bad players will tend to try and simplify things as much as possible and play as low event hockey as they can. If you're gonna be getting cooked like 60%-40% in terms of chances, you want that to be 6-4 and not 18-12. Really bad defensive 20 year olds tend to not be in the NHL.

Here's the list of 600 minute dmen at 20 over the last 5 years. These tend to be very high pedigree guys

If you're a net positive, (which Hutson is), you want those chances to be as much as possible.

It is a point that sometimes differential rates can be better than %s in that case.