LD Brady Cleveland - Univ. of Wisconsin, NCAA (2023, 47th, DET)

[nbwingsfan]

Recruited by Tony G who was no onger around, plus an injury riddled season... definitely best to get outta there. I think staying in the NCAA might be best to give him more development time, but I wonder if he'll look at the OHL. Sudbury has his rights

Maybe if he goes to the OHL he’ll finally score his 1st goal since he was 15.

Man I hated that pick so much

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Confirmed transferring to Colorado College, we'll see how he does there.

 

[newfy]

Does well in the types of micro stats you would want a modern day stay at home D to excel in. Was really physical, didnt lose many puck battles, lots of takeaways and was really good at moving the puck up in transition after winning those battles. Hopefully he puts it all together at Colorado College

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Never really understood why he was taken that early.

Nobody does lol. Detroit essentially looking for a big mean unicorn that can develop to eat 3rd pairing minutes. Maybe he gets there, but I seriously doubt it.

I can live with it considering how well Augustine is panning out.

 

[William H Bonney]

Does well in the types of micro stats you would want a modern day stay at home D to excel in. Was really physical, didnt lose many puck battles, lots of takeaways and was really good at moving the puck up in transition after winning those battles. Hopefully he puts it all together at Colorado College

Their recruit star rankings are always hilariously bad.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Their recruit star rankings are always hilariously bad.

Yep, they have guys labeled "4 star" and "5 star" who are shitty to below average USHL players, pretty funny but also a bit annoying.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Yeah, he’s not a five star.

You hope you get Alex Vlasic from Cleveland, but Vlasic was very unlikely to become what he has.

He should play a lot for Colorado College.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

The eye test for Cleveland doesn't bear out what the stat-pushers are trying to ascribe to him.

Slow, bad positionally, often behind the play, often has a hard time succeeding at hits because the play moves before he gets there. These flaws will only be more exposed at the ECHL\AHL levels.

He's gonna be a really solid guy for some team in the SPHL but I'd be really surprised to see him as someone who does anything more than split time between the AHL and ECHL in a 7th D role.

He might've been a mid-1st pick back in like, 1994 tho.



The more I think about it, the more sure I am that the Wings grabbed Cleveland because they knew they already had a home run draft with Danielson, ASP, Augustine, and Gibson. Wasting a late second at that point on a guy with a 1% chance of becoming a big, mean 3rd pair D makes sense when you've got 3 guys that would all be top-15 and another who would be a late 1st in any other draft year.

I didn't realize Gibson was a Feb, '05 birthday and he's a R shot. He still has a ton of headroom to develop.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Yeah, he’s not a five star.

You hope you get Alex Vlasic from Cleveland, but Vlasic was very unlikely to become what he has.

He should play a lot for Colorado College.

Other than you being an Alex Vlasic negger that kinda has to deal with the fact that he’s been solid, why do you see a comparison? Vlasic has size but is more good skating, not physical whereas Cleveland is the size throwback physical DMan with meh skating. Don’t think Vlasic was ever a USNDTP seventh DMan or college healthy scratch.

 

[nbwingsfan]

The eye test for Cleveland doesn't bear out what the stat-pushers are trying to ascribe to him.

Slow, bad positionally, often behind the play, often has a hard time succeeding at hits because the play moves before he gets there. These flaws will only be more exposed at the ECHL\AHL levels.

He's gonna be a really solid guy for some team in the SPHL but I'd be really surprised to see him as someone who does anything more than split time between the AHL and ECHL in a 7th D role.

He might've been a mid-1st pick back in like, 1994 tho.



The more I think about it, the more sure I am that the Wings grabbed Cleveland because they knew they already had a home run draft with Danielson, ASP, Augustine, and Gibson. Wasting a late second at that point on a guy with a 1% chance of becoming a big, mean 3rd pair D makes sense when you've got 3 guys that would all be top-15 and another who would be a late 1st in any other draft year.

I didn't realize Gibson was a Feb, '05 birthday and he's a R shot. He still has a ton of headroom to develop.

Yeah, I see Cleveland as having a near zero chance of being an NHL player.

The complete and utter black hole he is offensively would keep him out of the NHL even if he were great defensively, which he’s not.


He looks like my 60yo father trying to handle a puck.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Yeah, I see Cleveland as having a near zero chance of being an NHL player.

The complete and utter black hole he is offensively would keep him out of the NHL even if he were great defensively, which he’s not.


He looks like my 60yo father trying to handle a puck.

If Jaycob Megna can be in the league, Cleveland can too. (That’s the now the Blackhawk defenseman some scouts compared him to. Not too exciting)

 

[nbwingsfan]

If Jaycob Megna can be in the league, Cleveland can too. (That’s the now the Blackhawk defenseman some scouts compared him to. Not too exciting)

I mean sure maybe he can salvage being the #7 D on very bad teams who need a body on the roster, but that’s maybe his best case scenario the way things are going.

He hasn’t scored a goal since he was 15. 0G/17A in his last 177 games played

 

[WarriorofTime]

I mean sure maybe he can salvage being the #7 D on very bad teams who need a body on the roster, but that’s maybe his best case scenario the way things are going.

He hasn’t scored a goal since he was 15. 0G/17A in his last 177 games played

You would think just throwing it forward one would go in eventually.

 

[newfy]

I mean sure maybe he can salvage being the #7 D on very bad teams who need a body on the roster, but that’s maybe his best case scenario the way things are going.

He hasn’t scored a goal since he was 15. 0G/17A in his last 177 games played

We'll see. Advanced stats are starting to evolve and show that things like blocked shots actually have way more value than they used to. Kris Russell got dragged in early analytics because "if youre blocking shots or hitting, you dont have the puck" but this is now being viewed differently. There might be more value there than you think.

I'll also say this... the red wings/yzerman have drafted pretty well and have a decent track record to go off of. They obviously were aware he hasnt scored a goal in a long time, and despite that used a somewhat high pick on him. It says a lot about other things he brings to the table.

I'm not some big Cleveland believer andpounding the table saying hes making the league for sure. But I think the talk of 0 chance to ever play, and that hes horrible etc etc has kinda started to go overboard a bit

 

[nbwingsfan]

We'll see. Advanced stats are starting to evolve and show that things like blocked shots actually have way more value than they used to. Kris Russell got dragged in early analytics because "if youre blocking shots or hitting, you dont have the puck" but this is now being viewed differently. There might be more value there than you think.

I'll also say this... the red wings/yzerman have drafted pretty well and have a decent track record to go off of. They obviously were aware he hasnt scored a goal in a long time, and despite that used a somewhat high pick on him. It says a lot about other things he brings to the table.

I'm not some big Cleveland believer andpounding the table saying hes making the league for sure. But I think the talk of 0 chance to ever play, and that hes horrible etc etc has kinda started to go overboard a bit

I want to be wrong and very well might be, and I’m a believer in Yzerman drafting but the jury is truly still out on that as only his 6th,9th and 4th overall picks have made the league.

I just can’t think of any player in the NHL who have averaged 0G/9a over ~82 games in junior/ncaa who made it.

You need to have at least something to offer offensively, which he really struggles to do

 

[Craig Ludwig]

I want to be wrong and very well might be, and I’m a believer in Yzerman drafting but the jury is truly still out on that as only his 6th,9th and 4th overall picks have made the league.

I just can’t think of any player in the NHL who have averaged 0G/9a over ~82 games in junior/ncaa who made it.

You need to have at least something to offer offensively, which he really struggles to do

Josh Brown was always lethargic offensively, and although not a great NHL D man, still carved out a #6/7 Defenseman role in the NHL. Jason Strudwick same thing. So it may yet be possible.

 

[WarriorofTime]

He was basically a fourth round talent, people thought he may go third round because teams always reach on big punishing physical D because it’s a need in a prospect pool. But they really reached and went all the way to second. Obviously unclear if it was a need thing or someone really believed in him. Given he was USNDTP seventh D probably should have done a year in the USHL which is consistent with most fourth round type picks in age 18 year. Think last season shows that level is probably still where he’s at despite overdraft. Not to say he can’t have a good career as that level of talent does all the time carve out solid career. Just a long and uncertain trajectory and likely limited ceiling.

 

[newfy]

I want to be wrong and very well might be, and I’m a believer in Yzerman drafting but the jury is truly still out on that as only his 6th,9th and 4th overall picks have made the league.

I just can’t think of any player in the NHL who have averaged 0G/9a over ~82 games in junior/ncaa who made it.

You need to have at least something to offer offensively, which he really struggles to do

Yeah and that first 6th overall pick was considered a massive reach with no offensive potential/had done basically nothing offensivelyand that worked out pretty well. I wouldnt compare him to a 6th overall pick, but the exact same problems were presented between both of them. I would also use Yzermans track record in Tampa to say hes a pretty good drafter, outside of his picks with the wings.

I'm not disagreeing with you that you usually see more offensively, but there are guys who turn out really good without showing offence drafted in that range. Brandon Carlo being an example. 4 goals in the dub in his draft+1.

He was basically a fourth round talent, people thought he may go third round because teams always reach on big punishing physical D because it’s a need in a prospect pool. But they really reached and went all the way to second. Obviously unclear if it was a need thing or someone really believed in him. Given he was USNDTP seventh D probably should have done a year in the USHL which is consistent with most fourth round type picks in age 18 year. Think last season shows that level is probably still where he’s at despite overdraft. Not to say he can’t have a good career as that level of talent does all the time carve out solid career. Just a long and uncertain trajectory and likely limited ceiling.

I dont disagree with the premise of your post, but if youre talking about a guy who might go in the third round in the NHL draft and he ends up going mid to late second round.... its not really the huge reach youre making it out to be. The NHL draft is a crapshoot in that range and different from something like the NFL where teams are drafting starters in the third round.

I see this idea a lot on here though, its not just you. but being projected third or fourth round and going mid-late second isnt some crazy jump

 

[WarriorofTime]

Yeah and that first 6th overall pick was considered a massive reach with no offensive potential/had done basically nothing offensivelyand that worked out pretty well. I wouldnt compare him to a 6th overall pick, but the exact same problems were presented between both of them. I would also use Yzermans track record in Tampa to say hes a pretty good drafter, outside of his picks with the wings.

I'm not disagreeing with you that you usually see more offensively, but there are guys who turn out really good without showing offence drafted in that range. Brandon Carlo being an example. 4 goals in the dub in his draft+1.



I dont disagree with the premise of your post, but if youre talking about a guy who might go in the third round in the NHL draft and he ends up going mid to late second round.... its not really the huge reach youre making it out to be. The NHL draft is a crapshoot in that range and different from something like the NFL where teams are drafting starters in the third round.

I see this idea a lot on here though, its not just you. but being projected third or fourth round and going mid-late second isnt some crazy jump

Correct if you like a guy just take him and don’t wait around. Like if you were prepared to “reach” on Kucherov (a fairly unknown) in the fourth, just take him late second who cares. More so just stating that’s around where Cleveland was considered. The “reach” isn’t considered necessarily bad in a vacuum (even if it doesn’t turn out, whatever, second round isn’t a “must get a minimum nhl player” round already).

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He’s not that bad with the puck. Never going to put up points, but there are definitely NHL defensemen with worse hands. What he lacks with the puck is any sort of offensive instincts and decision making/passing accuracy. That can be worked on and gotten to NHL level. He has NHL hands for a 6’5 defenseman.

His defense similarly has potential, but isn’t yet good. Constantly behind the play because he processes too slow and is always out of position. Tries for too many big hits and needless physical play that hurts his team.

He can also skate at an NHL level for a 6’5 defenseman, but doesn’t utilize it well because he processes the game too slow to use it well.

He needs time to cook. Wisconsin barely played him last season. Give him at least two seasons at Colorado College, and he could start showing the makings of a future bottom 4 defenseman.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Josh Brown was always lethargic offensively, and although not a great NHL D man, still carved out a #6/7 Defenseman role in the NHL. Jason Strudwick same thing. So it may yet be possible.

As I said maybe there’s hope for a #7D on bad teams.


Strudwick played in a vastly different NHL than what’s played today though so I would really call that a compatible. That was a time where guys who can’t really play and we’re just shootings targets we’re plentyfull

Yeah and that first 6th overall pick was considered a massive reach with no offensive potential/had done basically nothing offensivelyand that worked out pretty well. I wouldnt compare him to a 6th overall pick, but the exact same problems were presented between both of them. I would also use Yzermans track record in Tampa to say hes a pretty good drafter, outside of his picks with the wings.

I'm not disagreeing with you that you usually see more offensively, but there are guys who turn out really good without showing offence drafted in that range. Brandon Carlo being an example. 4 goals in the dub in his draft+1.



I dont disagree with the premise of your post, but if youre talking about a guy who might go in the third round in the NHL draft and he ends up going mid to late second round.... its not really the huge reach youre making it out to be. The NHL draft is a crapshoot in that range and different from something like the NFL where teams are drafting starters in the third round.

I see this idea a lot on here though, its not just you. but being projected third or fourth round and going mid-late second isnt some crazy jump

Four goals/27pts in the WHL is still vastly better than what Cleveland has done to date

 

[newfy]

Four goals/27pts in the WHL is still vastly better than what Cleveland has done to date

Like I said once again, I'm not some Cleveland truther but when you look at the production of the dmen in his last year of junior and only a couple had any production worth even taking a second look at.

Its hard to compare leagues as well but thats objectively "not NHL level offence" for Carlo, and he immediately stepped in to a top 4 role and is now a top pairing quality player. Its more a way to show that with modern shutdown guys the offence doesnt really matter.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if Carlo can step into a top 4 role immediately with that production, saying Cleveland has 0 chance to make the NHL seems a little over the top to me

 

[Hockeyville USA]

The eye test for Cleveland doesn't bear out what the stat-pushers are trying to ascribe to him.

Slow, bad positionally, often behind the play, often has a hard time succeeding at hits because the play moves before he gets there. These flaws will only be more exposed at the ECHL\AHL levels.

He's gonna be a really solid guy for some team in the SPHL but I'd be really surprised to see him as someone who does anything more than split time between the AHL and ECHL in a 7th D role.

He might've been a mid-1st pick back in like, 1994 tho.



The more I think about it, the more sure I am that the Wings grabbed Cleveland because they knew they already had a home run draft with Danielson, ASP, Augustine, and Gibson. Wasting a late second at that point on a guy with a 1% chance of becoming a big, mean 3rd pair D makes sense when you've got 3 guys that would all be top-15 and another who would be a late 1st in any other draft year.

I didn't realize Gibson was a Feb, '05 birthday and he's a R shot. He still has a ton of headroom to develop.

February birthdays are near the oldest in the hockey birthyear and Canadian school year grouping...

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

February birthdays are near the oldest in the hockey birthyear and Canadian school year grouping...

Gibson was barely 18 when he was drafted. A full five months younger than Danielson.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Gibson was barely 18 when he was drafted. A full five months younger than Danielson.

I'm just saying that early birthyear birthdays (especially Canadians) are far closer to fully developed than summer birthdays and later birthyear birthdays. Many of the kids who are January and February birthdays made their minor hockey teams and dominated because they were the oldest & most physically developed, they got to beat up on younger kids. Now that doesn't mean that these guys won't be good NHLers, but it just usually means they're closer to fully developed out than someone born in July, August, September or later.

Danielson had to play against all of the older 2004s growing up, only got the extra year due to the NHL cutoff date being September 15. Gibson was always one of the oldest 2005s.