LD Bowen Byram - Vancouver Giants, WHL (2019, 4th, COL)

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Wow, what’s got you guys so down on Robertson?

I’m sure I haven’t watched him as much as you two, but I’ve liked what I’ve seen. Smooth skater, good size (could use it more, but that’s teachable), good defensive instincts, comfortable with the puck, good at getting the shot through. I did have higher hopes/expectations at the start of the season, but he’s done enough to justify a reasonable projection as a middle-pairing two-way all-around type at the next level. He’s not really lacking anything, and I was of the opinion he will go between 15-25 at the draft. What am I missing??

I always find myself wanting more when I watch him play. He's got great tools but consistency is the word that comes to mind with him. It's almost like he hesitates a lot with what he wants to do and then doesn't execute it as efficiently as he should. He bounces around a lot in my viewings of him and other guys. Right now there is a group of wingers I'm really digging on that are kind of rising for me. By no means is it a final ranking though.
 
He just had higher pure offence ability that I haven't seen from Byram yet. Provorov's creation ability in particular is much higher than Bowen's. He's also not as dynamic when it comes to pure offence either (Bowen has other strengths than Ivan doesn't have). The problem is that Byram is playing like half of the game because Giants - though better than average or mediocre - are quite the top heavy team, especially on defence. They rely on him a lot and because of that he gets to not only play in every important situation, he finds himself in top offencive minutes as well.

Good for him producing, but how they're playing him is just unrealistic for the NHL. In the pros there will be a certain number of ice time he will have, he's not going to play half of the game like he is in juniors. He probably isn't going to be a 80 point player in the pros - if so he would be in a two way race for 1st overall. Additionally, granted it was one game, but we saw how he wasn't effective at the Top Prospects game because he tended to try and do too much. How he played there is how he constantly plays in Vancouver and when you're filled with Pettersson, Horvat, and Boeser around you instead of junior players you're going to have to adjust (which could drop his stats).

Because of that I suggest that his point numbers will drop. He's still a defencive-first and his shutdown ability is his best trait of his game. I eventually see him as a solid two-way player once he gets more experience under his belt, but there could be some growing pains since his numbers are better than what I've seen from him offencively. His stat line in particular could go down as one of the best or the best draft-eligible defenders ever from the WHL. I am always more conservative when projecting players as best ever and I just can't see how he could be better than Weber, Jones, Niedermayer, Keith currently. He's still around Morgan Rielly for me and that is a damn good defender if you ask me.

Thanks for the analysis. Based on your thoughts, where do you think he slots in the NHL? Is is a two-way defenseman with number two upside, or does he have legitimate number one upside? I am assuming that you believe he is more likely a two-way number two or three defenseman versus a number one. I understand that this type of conclusion depends on the specific circumstances surrounding the team that drafts him. In Vancouver, he would be a top-4 defenseman and he could play on one pairing with Hughes on the other. In Colorado, I am not sure where he would slot. I don't necessarily believe he would be be the most logical fit to pair with Makar and Colorado has a young LHD in Girard that legimitately could play 20 minutes plus for a long time.
 
Between cozens and byram, who would u say is the more cerebral/smarter player?
Easily Byram. As me, I value smarts a lot more than a lot of other tools, however you win Cups with players like Cozens. Now I am not going to even start intangibles 2.0 here because that's nonsense. But Cozens is a person you wanted in World War I, you win with players like him. It's hard to explain because someone like Milan Lucic or Evander Kane probably had the same scouting reports, but you just gotta watch him play to kind of get what I mean and why I have him higher than Byram at the moment.

I always find myself wanting more when I watch him play. He's got great tools but consistency is the word that comes to mind with him. It's almost like he hesitates a lot with what he wants to do and then doesn't execute it as efficiently as he should. He bounces around a lot in my viewings of him and other guys. Right now there is a group of wingers I'm really digging on that are kind of rising for me. By no means is it a final ranking though.
Echo this a lot. I wouldn't say I hate him as a player, but I really dislike how he's constantly being ranked in the top 40 to 50 of this draft. I don't see a ton of puck skills and offencive output translating into the pro game. He has these issues in his game and gives me some Duncan Siemens 2.0 vibe.

Thanks for the analysis. Based on your thoughts, where do you think he slots in the NHL? Is is a two-way defenseman with number two upside, or does he have legitimate number one upside? I am assuming that you believe he is more likely a two-way number two or three defenseman versus a number one. I understand that this type of conclusion depends on the specific circumstances surrounding the team that drafts him. In Vancouver, he would be a top-4 defenseman and he could play on one pairing with Hughes on the other. In Colorado, I am not sure where he would slot. I don't necessarily believe he would be be the most logical fit to pair with Makar and Colorado has a young LHD in Girard that legimitately could play 20 minutes plus for a long time.
No problem, I also have no problem saying he will be a very good #2 defender (he probably has some #1 potential, depends on how high his IQ is IMHO). I am not going to try and predict the future, but I think he'll have some growing pains similar to Ryan O'Reilly. In terms of he will probably make the NHL sooner than he should and will be used primarily as a defencive-first player (perhaps a poor man's Heiskanen). Then with time and experience he will eventually blossom into an elite two-way player akin to Morgan Rielly. Not as good offencively, but better on defence and more physical.

For a team like Colorado, it is a good problem to have with that logjam of defenders. Sure it creates a problem, but it creates a good problem. If I was going to guess, we would probably see...

Byram - Johnson
Girard - Barrie (which hilariously have the best analytic stats together)
Zadorov - Makar

Byram would be Cole's replacement for me.
 
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For the Avs worst case you get pick 4. Likely choosing between cozens, dach, krebs, Podkolzin, byrum, whichever one of these 4 doesn’t go third.

Avs need 2nd line help so any forward would help. What are the hopes for Jost? Byrum rounds out the left vs right side.
 
Although we picked up Smith last year I wouldn't mind the Devils taking this guy if we wind up picking 3rd overall or lower. Aside from a few highlights and blurbs I've seen of this kid he seems like he has potential to be a top pairing d man. Smith is a LHD but having another one to play on another pairing in the future would help our defense a ton.
 
Byram is the guy I really want after Hughes and Kakko. It sucks that I have zero faith in Benning to select him because he already drafted two other LDs with high picks and Benning loves to draft for need over BPA.
 
Not missing a beat in the playoffs with a goal, 2 assists and 9 shots tonight. 5 points in the first 3 games as Seattle is putting up a good fight
Not a great game defensively, but he came in clutch on the offense.

Off topic, but you clearly watch the WHL more than me. How would you rank Dach, Cozens, and Krebs? What do you think their potentials are?

In my limited viewings, I have Dach, then Krebs, then Cozens.
 
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I agree, if I'm an offensive player on the other team I'm pretty happy to see I'm going up against Bowen Byram. He loses checks and gets beat 1-on-1 not infrequently, and he's not an elite skater. Offensively I have concerns as well, as he reminds me of Jake Bean, a terrific offensive player in junior who was aggressive positionally, had a strong shot but needed time and space to create chances. Like the upside, but there's tangible doubt that his game will translate to higher levels IMO.

He's a top 10 pick but I'd take quite a few of the USNDTP forwards ahead of him, and maybe some others.
 
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Byram is the guy I really want after Hughes and Kakko. It sucks that I have zero faith in Benning to select him because he already drafted two other LDs with high picks and Benning loves to draft for need over BPA.
If Benning drafts for need he is going with Byram. If he drafts BPA he goes with Dach, Turcotte, or Cozens in the 3-5 spots
 
I agree, if I'm an offensive player on the other team I'm pretty happy to see I'm going up against Bowen Byram. He loses checks and gets beat 1-on-1 not infrequently, and he's not an elite skater. Offensively I have concerns as well, as he reminds me of Jake Bean, a terrific offensive player in junior who was aggressive positionally, had a strong shot but needed time and space to create chances. Like the upside, but there's tangible doubt that his game will translate to higher levels IMO.

He's a top 10 pick but I'd take quite a few of the USNDTP forwards ahead of him, and maybe some others.
What is tangible doubt? And Byram is way more developed than Jake Bean in every aspect.

Also what is not elite about his skating. He pretty much is a 4 direction skater with tremendous edges and turns. I mean maybe he's not as fast as Paul Coffey if thats what you mean but he's every much as good a skater as Drew Doughty was at the same age.

Not trying to start an argument as opinions are just that and i do agree his defensive play needs more attention to detail. He's easily the most complete WHL player in this draft at a really desirable position.......the only concerns for me would be how many mistakes he makes game to game
 
What is tangible doubt? And Byram is way more developed than Jake Bean in every aspect.

Also what is not elite about his skating. He pretty much is a 4 direction skater with tremendous edges and turns. I mean maybe he's not as fast as Paul Coffey if thats what you mean but he's every much as good a skater as Drew Doughty was at the same age.

Not trying to start an argument as opinions are just that and i do agree his defensive play needs more attention to detail. He's easily the most complete WHL player in this draft at a really desirable position.......the only concerns for me would be how many mistakes he makes game to game

His first step is slow-average, so he's easy to forecheck, among other things. To be fair similar to how Provorov was in junior, which he worked hard to improve. Provorov still isn't an elite skater but he's a lot better than he was and escapes pressure without too much trouble in the NHL.

Offensively he doesn't play the game with enough pace, and when the pace increases he struggles to make plays, similar to Bean. Again, it's something that can improve because he does seem to be a smart player but more productive players have been hampered by pace at higher levels and fail to translate their game. And then when you look at his skillset there isn't that separating skill that can be his calling card moving forward. Maybe a good shot. So those are my concerns. They can be overcome but that's why there's doubt.
 
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Did you watch the game last night? Interesting to see you discuss pace, when he had quite a strong showing in what was likely the most frenetic, fast-paced game of the Giants' season so far.

I think playoff games are as telling as it gets for draft-eligible guys, and so far, so good for Byram. Tied for the playoff scoring lead so far and 2nd in shots, too...
 
Did you watch the game last night? Interesting to see you discuss pace, when he had quite a strong showing in what was likely the most frenetic, fast-paced game of the Giants' season so far.

I think playoff games are as telling as it gets for draft-eligible guys, and so far, so good for Byram. Tied for the playoff scoring lead so far and 2nd in shots, too...

Yeah I went to the game Saturday night. Didnt see what hes saying. Byram was strong defensively, strong in 1 on 1 battles. Has poise with the puck to create time + space, frequently tries to jump up & create offense himself.

Felt like he was on the ice almost half the game & was strong in every area. Not much doubt his game will translate IMO.
 
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How does Byram compare to Hughes/Boqvist/Bouchard/Dobson?

Better skater than Bouchard, better offensively than Dobson, better defensively than Boqvist. Bigger & better along the wall/netfront than Hughes.

Those guys have things they are better at than Byram (Hughes skating is an obvious one) but I think Byram is the most rounded player of the group.

It partially depends on how u feel about the 2018 group, but Id have him right up with Hughes.
 
How does Byram compare to Hughes/Boqvist/Bouchard/Dobson?
Hughes=Byram > Boqvist > Dobson > Bouchard

It's close between Hughes and Byram. Hughes is by far the superior skater, but Byram's size allows him to be more of a physical presence than Hughes. They both shine offensively. Byram has the heavier shot, but Hughes can dangle better and open up space. It's a close call so I'll just say they're about equal.
 
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His first step is slow-average, so he's easy to forecheck, among other things. To be fair similar to how Provorov was in junior, which he worked hard to improve. Provorov still isn't an elite skater but he's a lot better than he was and escapes pressure without too much trouble in the NHL.

Offensively he doesn't play the game with enough pace, and when the pace increases he struggles to make plays, similar to Bean. Again, it's something that can improve because he does seem to be a smart player but more productive players have been hampered by pace at higher levels and fail to translate their game. And then when you look at his skillset there isn't that separating skill that can be his calling card moving forward. Maybe a good shot. So those are my concerns. They can be overcome but that's why there's doubt.

I agree with this take. I haven't seen Byram recently, but in my viewings from earlier in the season these were my exact concerns as well. Talented player no doubt but he has some things to work on. And I agree that one thing that could be problematic for Byram moving to the pros is that he doesn't have that one thing that seperates him from the rest of the pack.

It would be his hands or shot possibly but mostly he's just a well-rounded player that doesn't have that one skill that really stands out and is elite, at least not from what I've seen so far. That's what's making me doubt his upside at the NHL level and why I think he's more likely to end up a 2nd pair D than a top pair one.

I think his skating is a bit problematic as well. The game today is so fast and Byram is already struggling at times with the speed of junior players. It's not impossible to fix by any means, but it is a bit worrying to me. And that kind of ties into to the thing about him not playing with enough pace too. He can be pretty slow to make plays at times.

Despite my concerns with him I still have him in my top10, mostly because of his offensive upside, but I just don't buy this whole narrative that he's a slam-dunk pick and best D in the draft.
 
I agree with this take. I haven't seen Byram recently, but in my viewings from earlier in the season these were my exact concerns as well. Talented player no doubt but he has some things to work on. And I agree that one thing that could be problematic for Byram moving to the pros is that he doesn't have that one thing that seperates him from the rest of the pack.

It would be his hands or shot possibly but mostly he's just a well-rounded player that doesn't have that one skill that really stands out and is elite, at least not from what I've seen so far. That's what's making me doubt his upside at the NHL level and why I think he's more likely to end up a 2nd pair D than a top pair one.

I think his skating is a bit problematic as well. The game today is so fast and Byram is already struggling at times with the speed of junior players. It's not impossible to fix by any means, but it is a bit worrying to me. And that kind of ties into to the thing about him not playing with enough pace too. He can be pretty slow to make plays at times.

Despite my concerns with him I still have him in my top10, mostly because of his offensive upside, but I just don't buy this whole narrative that he's a slam-dunk pick and best D in the draft.
I would watch some more recent games of Byram. He's improved a ton and looks a lot better than the start of the season.

The one thing I would say is that I don't think he needs to have an elite talent to become a great defenseman. I don't see why he can't become a Pietrangelo type.
 
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