LD Aron Kiviharju - TPS, FIN JRS (2024 Draft)

[thomast]

I'm all for a discussion about Finnish genetics, but if we go down that road, I suggest we use proper citations and credible sources. By the way, I have long legs.

There is always exceptions. I know couple asians, that are north of 6’5 in height. Of course there is almost impossible to find data of leg length of Finnish men. General belief is that Finnish people are ”persjalkaisia” aka short legged with broad shoulders and longer torso. There is no science behind that, but centuries long history of ”eye measurement”.

In my office, we have people from all the nordic countries. We have noticed how we Finns are among the tallest in sitting position, but while standing it’s not the case.

Common beliefs are beliefs you’re right, but it is better than nothing especially when there is not data available.

 

[HockeyHistorian]

There is always exceptions. I know couple asians, that are north of 6’5 in height. Of course there is almost impossible to find data of leg length of Finnish men. General belief is that Finnish people are ”persjalkaisia” aka short legged with broad shoulders and longer torso. There is no science behind that, but centuries long history of ”eye measurement”.

In my office, we have people from all the nordic countries. We have noticed how we Finns are among the tallest in sitting position, but while standing it’s not the case.

Common beliefs are beliefs you’re right, but it is better than nothing especially when there is not data available.

Sure. It's not like anecdotal evidence is hard to come by on HFBoards in other matters. The academic and the philosophy teacher in me just got a little alarmed about using anecdotal evidence about the genetics of a whole nation.

The genetic makeup of Finns has been actually studied quite a lot and one of the key findings has been that there are no Finnish people as such - there's actually two main groups the westerners and the easterners. These groups can then be divided into subgroups. If we were to entertain the idea of short-leggedness or "persjalkaisuus", I think this quality would be more associated with the easterners. The westerners are on average 1.6 cm taller than the easterners. However, we must admit that this doesn't necessarily say anything about the legs-torso ratio. Kiviharju is a name that is more common in western Finland and his father is from Turku, but I know nothing about his mother. Aron's father, Jani is, as every hockey fan in Finland probably knows, a short guy. Whether he has short legs is unknown to me.

Thank you for reading.

 

[MBrodeur]

This thread is going in a weird direction.

What I learned is that Heiskanen fixed his genetics at some point before the draft, hopefully Kiviharju can do the same

I'm glad Aho, Heiskanen, Hintz, Puljujärvi, Kapanen, Haula, Nutivaara and so on didn't get the memo. Rantanen, Hakanpää and Laine (aside from acceleration) are good skaters for their size but they should've thought of not growing their torsos so much.

If guys like Selänne and Kapanen Sr would've been born after we discovered this they might've been slow today.

 

[Jukurit]

What if NHL Combine included measuring your legs?
"Sorry, we can't draft you on the first round. Your legs are too short."

 

[MBrodeur]

What if NHL Combine included measuring your legs?
"Sorry, we can't draft you on the first round. Your legs are too short."

Now we know why Kemell dropped in the draft. His shoulders and Torso were too much for his legs to handle.

 

[Kiekura]

Why are people talking like his skating is bad or "just good"

Kid has been playing against 3-4 year olders his whole life and his edge work is superb. His top speed is easily above average of his age group.

That top speed is going to be even better in future. Maybe not something like Makar, but not going be problem either.

Most promising prospect ever from Finland. We will see If he can reach that potential or not.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Picked up a Primary assist in his first game at the hlinka

 

[Jukurit]

Picked up a Primary assist in his first game at the hlinka

Sure would be nice if you could actually see it. I guess I'll just use my imagination. OMG! What an incredible pass by Kiviharju!!!

 

[WayneGretzky]

Scored in the shootout as well, kid is SPECIAL!

Picked up a Primary assist in his first game at the hlinka

Sure would be nice if you could actually see it. I guess I'll just use my imagination. OMG! What an incredible pass by Kiviharju!!!

 

[Jukurit]

Scored in the shootout as well, kid is SPECIAL!

Well, if Wayne Gretzky himself is saying this kid is special, then he must be.

 

[bigdog16]

Why are people talking like his skating is bad or "just good"

Kid has been playing against 3-4 year olders his whole life and his edge work is superb. His top speed is easily above average of his age group.

That top speed is going to be even better in future. Maybe not something like Makar, but not going be problem either.

Most promising prospect ever from Finland. We will see If he can reach that potential or not.

His edge work is really good and he can shake off opposing players pretty well. You make a good point that its tough to guage him against his peers because he is younger. But at this level his speed is barely average. Kind of reminds me of Adam Fox actually

 

[Antiillafire]

Scored in the shootout as well, kid is SPECIAL!

Did he shoot twice? Cause he missed right before Sale won it

 

[WayneGretzky]

Did he shoot twice? Cause he missed right before Sale won it

Yes, shot twice, scored on the first.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Is Aron Kiviharju the next Adam Fox?

 

[waitin425]

Stand by guys. Ive never seen him play. But...I'm going to read a bunch of opinions on this thread and then form my own opinion based on those opinions. I'll share my opinion on kiviharju shortly.

92.5 percent of HFboards.

All kidding aside I need to catch some Finland games this tourney. I want to see what the hype is all about.

 

[Erikfromfin]

He has basicly been toying with opponents at Hlinka as underage defender. Lets see if Canada/Sweden can challenge him

 

[Esko6]

Is Aron Kiviharju the next Adam Fox?

He is certainly one of the most promising Finnish prospects ever, but he is still far away from draft and he could flame out. He did a long podcast interview recently and he is very mature for his age, will be interesting to see if this is a case of a kid who just developed early or if he can keep improving.

 

[ijuka]

He is certainly one of the most promising Finnish prospects ever, but he is still far away from draft and he could flame out. He did a long podcast interview recently and he is very mature for his age, will be interesting to see if this is a case of a kid who just developed early or if he can keep improving.

The case of a kid who just developed early? Mental maturity has little to nothing to do with physical maturity, and he's barely even started gym training.

In the interview he did say he's always skated with players at least 2 years older. Right from "hockey preschool" he played with the 04 age group. His dad coached them until D2 age(u13). At this time his dad was a Liiga coach, so he did this on the side. It's pretty rare that such young age groups get an actual professional Liiga coach.

It also is pretty rare that a player right from hockey preschool plays with players 2 years older... That has to be like a 5-year-old playing with 7-year-olds.

He also said he had a knee injury in 2020-2021 but it actually wasn't a serious one that will have long-lasting repercussions. It's the only significant injury he's suffered.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

In last 12 months, he has played in 16 international junior games so far
has scored 21 points in them, these 5 Hlinka assists included.

2 goals and 19 assists. and is +12
(they don't give +/- at Hlinka, right?,
or do they?)

And if you include those 21 points with
A-Sm Liiga and B-Sm Liiga points,
you get combined of 59 points, in 61 games

for a 15-16 year old, who will be be playing this next season
in of the best pro leagues, in the Sm-Liiga.

the hype been great so far, i hope he isn't a dud

 

[Jukurit]

The case of a kid who just developed early? Mental maturity has little to nothing to do with physical maturity, and he's barely even started gym training.

In the interview he did say he's always skated with players at least 2 years older. Right from "hockey preschool" he played with the 04 age group. His dad coached them until D2 age(u13). At this time his dad was a Liiga coach, so he did this on the side. It's pretty rare that such young age groups get an actual professional Liiga coach.

It also is pretty rare that a player right from hockey preschool plays with players 2 years older... That has to be like a 5-year-old playing with 7-year-olds.

He also said he had a knee injury in 2020-2021 but it actually wasn't a serious one that will have long-lasting repercussions. It's the only significant injury he's suffered.

Do you know what gave him that knee injury?

 

[Keke]

How has his skating looked in Hlinka compared to U18 WHC?

 

[Jukurit]

How has his skating looked in Hlinka compared to U18 WHC?

Better.

 

[ijuka]

Do you know what gave him that knee injury?

He didn't specify. He said that they were messing around shooting some pucks or something, but I'm not sure what exactly caused it.

In any case, it was dislocated kneecap, and while it did cause him to miss the season and probably weakened him somewhat, it's a much milder injury than ACL tear or something, so it shouldn't have any longterm impact.

How has his skating looked in Hlinka compared to U18 WHC?

Better. He also said that he'd been focusing specifically on skating over the summer, with various focal points(figure skating stuff, explosive training, technique etc. he actually listed some surprisingly specific things about his training routine). It sounded like a lot of thought was put into it and he had sensible explanations for just about everything.

One thing that stood out to me is that he was on the ice, was it 3 times a week. Patrik Laine in Rautala's group, for example, didn't go on the ice at all in the summer.

 

[BB88]

He didn't specify. He said that they were messing around shooting some pucks or something, but I'm not sure what exactly caused it.

In any case, it was dislocated kneecap, and while it did cause him to miss the season and probably weakened him somewhat, it's a much milder injury than ACL tear or something, so it shouldn't have any longterm impact.


Better. He also said that he'd been focusing specifically on skating over the summer, with various focal points(figure skating stuff, explosive training, technique etc. he actually listed some surprisingly specific things about his training routine). It sounded like a lot of thought was put into it and he had sensible explanations for just about everything.

One thing that stood out to me is that he was on the ice, was it 3 times a week. Patrik Laine in Rautala's group, for example, didn't go on the ice at all in the summer.

I have had lot of problems with Rautalas training methods and prefer this approach by a mile

 

[JJTT]

How has his skating looked in Hlinka compared to U18 WHC?

Haven't had the time to watch any of the games but at least the hockeynews said his skating looks unreal for player of his age

Hlinka Gretzky Cup 3 Stars: Lindstein, Yager, and Kiviharju Shine on Day 3

Sweden's Theo Lindstein, Canada's Brayden Yager and Finnish sensation Aron Kiviharju stood out during Tuesday's Hlinka Gretzky Cup action. Tony Ferrari took a deeper look at all of them.

thehockeynews.com

I have had lot of problems with Rautalas training methods and prefer this approach by a mile

Yeah really, why isn't Laine skating all summer again, when that is the biggest part he needs to work on?