LD Aron Kiviharju - IFK Helsinki, Liiga (2024, 122nd, MIN) Part2

[Dirtyf1ghter]

I'm not comparing to 93/94, you do that. I´m recognizing a trend. But if you want to be completely satisfied with that, then be. I just dont' think you have a single good argument.

Also, we could and should have at least 60 players in the NHL.

Even Russia does not reach 60.

 

[LeProspector]

I do wonder what you are implying by this. You seem to be insinuating that the injuries were more than just a fluke

Just speculating here, but athletes that have been sort of raised with the expectations of being a professional athlete from a very young age, where they’re training hours a day when most kids are just being kids. there have been correlations to increased risk of injury as they get older. Lonzo Ball being probably the best example of this.

Not saying Kiviharju is an example of this 100%, but it makes you wonder.

 

[wetcoast]

And yet 42 Finnish in NHL... Saros, Hintz, Aho, Rantanen, Lindell, Haula, Mikkola...

1993/94 : 10
2003/04 : 38
2013/04 : 32
2023/24 : 42 (probably 45 at the end of season)

I have another definition of decline

Sure but aside from 3 really good centers (Barkov always seems to be slightly less than he could be which is a top 5 center in the NHL) and Rantanen there are a ton of okay and fringe guys and Miro on the back end with some okay 2-4 types and then fringe guys again.

The star power players that Finland sometimes looks like they will prodcue from their 14-16 year olds tend to not develop as projected.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Sure but aside from 3 really good centers (Barkov always seems to be slightly less than he could be which is a top 5 center in the NHL) and Rantanen there are a ton of okay and fringe guys and Miro on the back end with some okay 2-4 types and then fringe guys again.

The star power players that Finland sometimes looks like they will prodcue from their 14-16 year olds tend to not develop as projected.

In the past, there has never been better at the same time. The highly rated players at 14-16 years old, apart from Kiviharju and Lambert, I don't see.

There was a little Aatu Raty hype in 2019/20 which I never bought into. Maybe Mikko Kokkonen but a lot of people weren't fooled. Brad Lambert, who by the way shuts bad mouths. He would be top 15 today. And I'm careful when I say top 15.

 

[wetcoast]

In the past, there has never been better at the same time. The highly rated players at 14-16 years old, apart from Kiviharju and Lambert, I don't see.

There was a little Aatu Raty hype in 2019/20 which I never bought into. Maybe Mikko Kokkonen but a lot of people weren't fooled. Brad Lambert, who by the way shuts bad mouths. He would be top 15 today. And I'm careful when I say top 15.

I think there were high expectations for Poolparty and Kakko as well and that was my thought process and Raty looked really good at the 19-20 Hlinka but then really stumbled after that.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

I think there were high expectations for Poolparty and Kakko as well and that was my thought process and Raty looked really good at the 19-20 Hlinka but then really stumbled after that.

The guys who followed Raty closely said that he was an individual incapable of blending into a collective.

Kakko did not steal his No. 2 spot in 2019. Difficult to establish himself on the wings of a top 6 with NY Rangers. Lafreniere also has problems but remains a good player.

Juolevi and Puljujarvi failed. But it also happened to Connolly, Burmistrov, McIlrath, Yakupov, Reinhart, Galchenyuk, Pouliot, Koekkoek, Drouin, Dal Colle, Fleury, Nylander, Andersson, Patrick, Zadina, Kravtsov, Turcotte, Broberg, Podkolzin.

Besides, you have Aho and Hintz who would be top 10 and who were not in the 1st round.

So as with any other country, there are 3 categories : those who disappoint, those who surprise, those who confirm. There is no Finnish determinism.Kiviharju lowered. But other Finns went up. And in the next few years, I don't see any very hyped Finns currently. And yet there will probably be very good players like Helenius and Hemming.

 

[ChicagoBullsFan]

He will pretty much lose the entire season so will not be a first round pick. I think he has the skills to be one, but injuries are a concern.

Maybe seeing this cheers you up.

The guys who followed Raty closely said that he was an individual incapable of blending into a collective.

Kakko did not steal his No. 2 spot in 2019. Difficult to establish himself on the wings of a top 6 with NY Rangers. Lafreniere also has problems but remains a good player.

Juolevi and Puljujarvi failed. But it also happened to Connolly, Burmistrov, McIlrath, Yakupov, Reinhart, Galchenyuk, Pouliot, Koekkoek, Drouin, Dal Colle, Fleury, Nylander, Andersson, Patrick, Zadina, Kravtsov, Turcotte, Broberg, Podkolzin.

Besides, you have Aho and Hintz who would be top 10 and who were not in the 1st round.

So as with any other country, there are 3 categories : those who disappoint, those who surprise, those who confirm. There is no Finnish determinism.Kiviharju lowered. But other Finns went up. And in the next few years, I don't see any very hyped Finns currently. And yet there will probably be very good players like Helenius and Hemming.

Can someone tell me how in the hell this and other messages
of Finnish prospects regards any way on Aron Kiviharju at all.

Can moderators clean these non Kiviharju related posts somewhere else.
Lets keep this thread only Kiviharju. Thank you.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Maybe seeing this cheers you up.


Can someone tell me how in the hell this and other messages
of Finnish prospects regards any way on Aron Kiviharju at all.

Can moderators clean these non Kiviharju related posts somewhere else.
Lets keep this thread only Kiviharju. Thank you.

This has a lot to do with the fact that Kiviharju has been injured for several months.

These things happen regularly. The theme was the failure of Finnish prospects and Kiviharju is one of them.

Fluidity will always be better than rigidity.

 

[Svedu]

I wish this kid all the best. He's talented and god knows we need something good at D if there would a best-on-best soon. Heiskanen can't be the only one for us if we are supposed to be a contender. We have those Lindell, Jokiharju, Risto, Välimäki, Vaakanainen, Määttä kind of guys that can fill roles between the third and seventh spot. But we need another one who can lead a pair like Heiskanen. The only ones I got my hope up for are this kid, Niemelä and Heinola( even though Jets and perhaps now injuries) stopped him from becoming just that.

I just hope he starts early on working a whole lot on his skating because he has those other things already. That was probably the thing that ever held back a great prospect like Heinola from being what some North American D's have become.
But yeah, he has one year to work on his explosiveness so that he can become the one who dominates. I hope Liitto and HIFK gives him all the tools to succeed and recognizes what he can become and how they can take part in his development.
Who knows, perhaps we are more lucky than we can ever imagine. Because if Kiviharju, Niemelä and why not Pulkkinen as well pan out? Then this D crisis can be overdone and Finland be a future gold contender considering how many great centers we have right now.

 

[ChicagoBullsFan]

I wish this kid all the best. He's talented and god knows we need something good at D if there would a best-on-best soon. Heiskanen can't be the only one for us if we are supposed to be a contender. We have those Lindell, Jokiharju, Risto, Välimäki, Vaakanainen, Määttä kind of guys that can fill roles between the third and seventh spot. But we need another one who can lead a pair like Heiskanen. The only ones I got my hope up for are this kid, Niemelä and Heinola( even though Jets and perhaps now injuries) stopped him from becoming just that.

I just hope he starts early on working a whole lot on his skating because he has those other things already. That was probably the thing that ever held back a great prospect like Heinola from being what some North American D's have become.
But yeah, he has one year to work on his explosiveness so that he can become the one who dominates. I hope Liitto and HIFK gives him all the tools to succeed and recognizes what he can become and how they can take part in his development.
Who knows, perhaps we are more lucky than we can ever imagine. Because if Kiviharju, Niemelä and why not Pulkkinen as well pan out? Then this D crisis can be overdone and Finland be a future gold contender considering how many great centers we have right now.

Unfortunately you cannot take nothing as a guarantee when it is about HIFK.
HIFK has been most injury prone SM liiga team what last 10 yrs or so.

What comes to Kiviharju.
I read few interviews about him before christmas and he mentioned that
his goal is to join Team Finland's U18 WJC training camp when it starts in April.

HIFK's GM Tobias Salmelainen so far hasn't decided yet
what HIFK will do with Kiviharju when's back and allowed to play.

But options are loan to other SM liiga team or Mestis.
HIFK's U20 team is one of the worst teams in U20 SM sarja
so it is unlikely Kiviharju plays there but it's not totally out of the question either.

Hero Mali is working HIFK's strenght and conditioning coach today
so that should at least help Kiviharju to improve his physicality if not else.

 

[Jukurit]

Not looking great before injury. I was surprised he was still ranked in the first round in Bob's rankings.

 

[JJTT]

Sounds like he is close to returning. Will play at at the u18 wjc's, that is his only goal for this season.

 

[ChicagoBullsFan]

 

[Albatros]

Team Finland's captain at the ongoing U18 World Championships. Barely avoided serious injury in the first game of the tournament against Latvia, as a skate cut his neck open.



Got himself an assist, too (#12, first goal):

 

[Astyanax]

Huh, I don't recall any serious source rating Ebert highly. He was athletic and could skate and shoot, but his overall game was never at all impressive nor did he show any such improvement that would have suggested much upside.

Agreed, I follow this sh** pretty hard and I have zero recall of this ebert? The others mentioned for sure over hyped.

 

[Hntz]

Refreshing to hear a finnish prospect speak good English.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He’s way underrated. Possibly one of the most underrated in this draft. He fell because of an injury and some unfair expectations based on what he was viewed as years back.

 

[Svedu]

I will not decide if he has IT or not after this tournament based on his unlucky season with his injury.
Although I will get a better opinion when we face the US, Czechs, Sweden or Canada. If he can't shine or excel against them in any way I'll be concerned.
Regarding him I won't even state he's underrated or overrated for now. It impossible to decide that. But he needs to show what he has in his arsenal in the big games. If not, he' ll be drafted in the second or even third round.

 

[Kahvi]

Refreshing to hear a finnish prospect speak good English.

Sounded like a Finnish guy that has been playing in CHL for the last two years.

 

[MasterMatt25]

Should be a 1st rounder

 

[bigdog16]

Agreed, I follow this sh** pretty hard and I have zero recall of this ebert? The others mentioned for sure over hyped.

Ebert was 100% a consensus top 5 pick in his D-1 year. Played in the USHL at 15 and put up really good numbers as a 16 year old in the O, but he was also paired with Ryan Ellis.

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

Still looks as smart as ever, but his physical tools haven't looked great. No clue where he gets drafted. Teams will probably have highly varying takes on how much his injury is still impacting things, how much his skating can improve, and how much his smarts can compensate for the size

 

[OKR]

Still looks as smart as ever, but his physical tools haven't looked great.

No clue where he gets drafted. Teams will probably have highly varying takes on how much his injury is still impacting things, how much his skating can improve, and how much his smarts can compensate for the size

I wouldn’t be too worried about his size, he was focusing on strenght training during his injury that kept him away from the ice, benches 220lbs and went up in weight to 176lbs.

I don’t see him having a very high ceiling due to him not possessing any elite abilities, but his brain give him a relatively high chance of becoming a solid player.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I wouldn’t be too worried about his size, he was focusing on strenght training during his injury that kept him away from the ice, benches 220lbs and went up in weight to 176lbs.

I don’t see him having a very high ceiling due to him not possessing any elite abilities, but his brain give him a relatively high chance of becoming a solid player.

But the same things were said about Adam Fox and then his hockey sense carried him. I think there are enough differences between the two. Not expecting him to be that, but if he has elite hockey sense for the NHL he can reach his ceiling.

 

[BerthMania]

For those who watched him at the U-18, how did he play so far?