Speculation: Last in the NHL in ROW, 3 ROW in last 23 games, last in the NHL in GF

[drunksage]

So you're speculating on hard numbers?

 

[EmergencyExit]

I say we sacrifice Koala to the hockey gods in a good ol fashioned Aztec (or was it Mayan?) heart ripping out ceremony. Burish and Murray too just because that much beef might help us get Poseidon's blessing.

That or we can hope Koala and Laviolette are fired and we hire Lavi. On top of hoping Murray and Clowe get traded for some good pieces.

It was the Aztecs. But maybe the Mayans did it too.

The fact that they are last in ROWs doesn't come as a surprise. I can't believe what has happened to this team since 2011. The on ice product is boring as hell, and I could live with that if they were winning but thats not the case.

People jokingly bring up LA as a comparison and I like to believe such a surge is possible, but they were a good team playing terribly under a bad coach. I have faith in the roster but no one expects TM to go anywhere. So even if they crawl into the playoffs there's not much hope. At this rate though playoffs are no certainty.

 

[Negatively Positive]

I just noticed the Rangers are tied with the Sharks for dead last in GF. Poor Rangerssharks. His two favorite teams with all those skill players and they can't score.

I think I'd rather my team lose 5-4 every game than 2-1. At least I get to celebrate 4 goals in the other scenario.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I'd be happy with the same course of events that led to the end of the Sutter-Lombardi era.

It is a difficult comparison to make.

That team wasn't really that talented...they never made the conference finals. Other than Nolan and Selanne, the team was bereft of star players (except maybe in goal). That team was known for having depth and character more than anything.

However, that team had a lot of youth and a bright future. Marleau and Sturm were under 25, top-six forwards, and poised to become first-liners. Cheechoo was looking good; so were prospects like Zalesak, Morris, and Goc. Dimitrakos was looking like the real deal. On defense, Scott Hannan was looking like Langway, and it looked like he would be joined by Jim Fahey and Brad Stuart. Jeff Jillson was also in the picture, as were Ehrhoff, Sutton, and Davison. Plus, they brought in McLaren, a top-4 dman at the age of 25! Of course, in goal, they had three guys had legitimate top-10 potential...

If you really think about it, Lomardi's decisions were interesting. He got nothing in return for Selanne, and didn't trade Damphousse, Thornton, Ricci, and Rathje. But then in the next year, though Selanne left, the rest of those players were very important to SJ's revival. Would he have been better off getting assets for those players? Or did Lombardi make the right decision, as those players led to SJ's turnaround?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

It is a difficult comparison to make.

That team wasn't really that talented...they never made the conference finals. Other than Nolan and Selanne, the team was bereft of star players (except maybe in goal). That team was known for having depth and character more than anything.

However, that team had a lot of youth and a bright future. Marleau and Sturm were under 25, top-six forwards, and poised to become first-liners. Cheechoo was looking good; so were prospects like Zalesak, Morris, and Goc. Dimitrakos was looking like the real deal. On defense, Scott Hannan was looking like Langway, and it looked like he would be joined by Jim Fahey and Brad Stuart. Jeff Jillson was also in the picture, as were Ehrhoff, Sutton, and Davison. Plus, they brought in McLaren, a top-4 dman at the age of 25! Of course, in goal, they had three guys had legitimate top-10 potential...

If you really think about it, Lomardi's decisions were interesting. He got nothing in return for Selanne, and didn't trade Damphousse, Thornton, Ricci, and Rathje. But then in the next year, though Selanne left, the rest of those players were very important to SJ's revival. Would he have been better off getting assets for those players? Or did Lombardi make the right decision, as those players led to SJ's turnaround?

The key point to take away from my post is that coaching is a problem and the GM ought to take the fall with him. As for personnel, it will always be different as situations are unique to the team and the time. I see Thornton as I saw Nolan then. A great player that has leadership skills that wear thin after a while and need to be removed eventually. There's also a good chunk of youth going forward for this team. Most of it is in San Jose which should make for a rather quick turnaround if they make the right moves.

 

[Lebanezer]

It is really disappointing to see those stats and know that McLellan still has a job. I expects trades to happen, but I understand that those kinds of deals can be delicate and take time to hash out. Firing McLellan however, is not a tough decision to make. Blame goes every which way right now, but since most of us agree that he has to go, and because it's the simplest move, it should have already happened. The team is not going to pull out of this horrific slump with him at the helm. I find this all so infuriating.

 

[OrrNumber4]

There's also a good chunk of youth going forward for this team. Most of it is in San Jose which should make for a rather quick turnaround if they make the right moves.

Really? Comparatively, I don't think you can make that case. The 2003 Sharks had better, younger talent at most positions. Even on defense, where the talent is comparable, Stuart, Hannan, Fahey, and Jillson were all 23 or younger. McLaren was 25.

On the 2013 Sharks; Burns is over 25, Braun in 25, Vlasic is 25, Irwin is 24, and Demers is 23.

Look, I think the case can be made that the Sharks have many assets with which they can acquire youth. But that 2003 team had plenty of it to take it through the collapse.

 

[magic school bus]

At least people can't say we lost last year because our penalty kill sucked.

 

[ChubbChubby]

I say ride the season out with TMac since it'll give DW a good excuse for our pathetic season. He can get fired during the offseason, and hey maybe DW too. The coaching options will likely have a bigger market then and maybe we can grab Laviolette from the Flyers. With how much emphasis the team puts on dressing a competitive team, I just don't see how they can justify a lottery pick unless they have a scapegoat ready to take the blame.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

This whole franchise needs an overhaul..not just gm and coaching.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Really? Comparatively, I don't think you can make that case. The 2003 Sharks had better, younger talent at most positions. Even on defense, where the talent is comparable, Stuart, Hannan, Fahey, and Jillson were all 23 or younger. McLaren was 25.

On the 2013 Sharks; Burns is over 25, Braun in 25, Vlasic is 25, Irwin is 24, and Demers is 23.

Look, I think the case can be made that the Sharks have many assets with which they can acquire youth. But that 2003 team had plenty of it to take it through the collapse.

Well, if the turnaround is only within a season or two, what does it matter if they're 27 or if they're 25? There's still plenty of career and prime left in the guys that are 27 or 25 to make it work with ease. The players you mentioned in the past team were also much more limited than the guys that are here now.

This team, even with a drastic change at the top, is not far off from being a playoff team anyway. If you trade Thornton and Boyle and you get a young speedy winger or two, you can go into next season with a solid team that would just need the right coach with the right system to make them work.

Next year, this team would need a couple top six wingers that play with speed to support playing Couture and Pavelski down the middle. I can get behind a third line like Galiardi-Sheppard-Wingels if they're played consistently and allowed to gel. Their blue line will consist of Vlasic-Burns, Stuart-Demers, and Irwin-Braun or something similar. That is a good defensive group with regards to two-way play. They simply need to be used right.

 

[Evincar]

This whole franchise needs an overhaul..not just gm and coaching.

Agreed. Even S.J. Sharkie is on the hot seat. He claims to be the hardest working fish in the NHL, (as per his twitter account) but I dont know...

 

[Coily]

Agreed. Even S.J. Sharkie is on the hot seat. He claims to be the hardest working fish in the NHL, (as per his twitter account) but I dont know...

Stomper FTW.

 

[19sharks19]

This whole franchise needs an overhaul..not just gm and coaching.

No disagreement. let's say, keep a front line of Big Joe, Patty and Couture along with holding on to Pav's and trade/moving the bottom 8/9 along with incorporating some youth next year. I know silly and/or not realistic and I'm kinda kidding around a bit but seriously, it wouldn't do us any worse. Our D is already young (aside from a couple vets) and fairly solid, not much to do there.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

I just noticed the Rangers are tied with the Sharks for dead last in GF. Poor Rangerssharks. His two favorite teams with all those skill players and they can't score.

I think I'd rather my team lose 5-4 every game than 2-1. At least I get to celebrate 4 goals in the other scenario.

This. IMO, so far in this season, there isn't a worse team to be a fan of than the Sharks. Probably the worst team in the NHL after a crazy start, very little in the pipeline to look forward too.

And yeah, that's hilarious. Ryan Mcdonagh, Michael Del Zotto, Martin Havlat, Brent Burns, Dan Boyle, Joe Thornton, Brad Richards, Marian Gaborik, Rick Nash, Patrick Marleau, Logan Couture, Joe Pavelski, Ryan Callahan, a couple other guys I'm probably forgetting on the Rangers, and 142 goals to show for it. Yikes.

The Sharks may not even score 100 goals this year at this pace. They're currently on pace for 113, but it may drop.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

This is the worst team in 10 years. The shootout wins and loser points make it look better than it is. They play not to lose instead of to win. The players aren't excused either..they glide around the ice and half ass stick check. I've never seen a team that tries to stick check so much and they wonder why teams sustain so much zone time and break out so easy. It's easy to gain speed when there is no resistance aside from stationary players reaching with sticks. The forwards are very bad culprits of this. By the time the opposing team is hitting their blue line they have gained so much speed that the D have to back up. They need to up the pressure..in every zone.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

This. IMO, so far in this season, there isn't a worse team to be a fan of than the Sharks. Probably the worst team in the NHL after a crazy start, very little in the pipeline to look forward too.

And yeah, that's hilarious. Ryan Mcdonagh, Michael Del Zotto, Martin Havlat, Brent Burns, Dan Boyle, Joe Thornton, Brad Richards, Marian Gaborik, Rick Nash, Patrick Marleau, Logan Couture, Joe Pavelski, Ryan Callahan, a couple other guys I'm probably forgetting on the Rangers, and 142 goals to show for it. Yikes.

The Sharks may not even score 100 goals this year at this pace. They're currently on pace for 113, but it may drop.

Being a fan of Edmonton would be much worse. The pipeline doesn't have flashy, blue chip names but Hertl, Nieto, O'Regan, Tierney, Kuraly all look to be NHL players and contributors. The problem is they are 2-3 years away which oddly is when the big boys all come off the books.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Well, if the turnaround is only within a season or two, what does it matter if they're 27 or if they're 25? There's still plenty of career and prime left in the guys that are 27 or 25 to make it work with ease. The players you mentioned in the past team were also much more limited than the guys that are here now.

This team, even with a drastic change at the top, is not far off from being a playoff team anyway. If you trade Thornton and Boyle and you get a young speedy winger or two, you can go into next season with a solid team that would just need the right coach with the right system to make them work.

Next year, this team would need a couple top six wingers that play with speed to support playing Couture and Pavelski down the middle. I can get behind a third line like Galiardi-Sheppard-Wingels if they're played consistently and allowed to gel. Their blue line will consist of Vlasic-Burns, Stuart-Demers, and Irwin-Braun or something similar. That is a good defensive group with regards to two-way play. They simply need to be used right.

Remember though, that the end of the Lombardi-Sutter era signified a huge change in the team. Forget that Thornton was acquired only two seasons later. Selanne, Nolan, Ragnarsson, and Marchment were jettisoned immediately. Damphousse (blocked a trade), Ricci, and Scott Thornton stuck around but the writing was on the wall that they were not going to be retained. Rathje left at the end of '04. Even Hannan left when he decided he didn't like the new SJ identity.

At the start of the year 2006, who remained from the SJ roster since the middle of 2002? Remember, that is only 2.5 seasons...

Earlier, you called for a change similar to the crashing down of the Lombardi-Sutter era. I think to get that, you would need more than DW and Tmac getting fired and JT and Boyle being traded.

 

[ChompChomp]

Even Hannan left when he decided he didn't like the new SJ identity.

Not to stray away from your valid points, but the word was Hannan HATED Ron Wilson and that's why Hannan bolted as soon as he could.

 

[NWShark*]

It is a difficult comparison to make.

That team wasn't really that talented...they never made the conference finals. Other than Nolan and Selanne, the team was bereft of star players (except maybe in goal). That team was known for having depth and character more than anything.

However, that team had a lot of youth and a bright future. Marleau and Sturm were under 25, top-six forwards, and poised to become first-liners. Cheechoo was looking good; so were prospects like Zalesak, Morris, and Goc. Dimitrakos was looking like the real deal. On defense, Scott Hannan was looking like Langway, and it looked like he would be joined by Jim Fahey and Brad Stuart. Jeff Jillson was also in the picture, as were Ehrhoff, Sutton, and Davison. Plus, they brought in McLaren, a top-4 dman at the age of 25! Of course, in goal, they had three guys had legitimate top-10 potential...

If you really think about it, Lomardi's decisions were interesting. He got nothing in return for Selanne, and didn't trade Damphousse, Thornton, Ricci, and Rathje. But then in the next year, though Selanne left, the rest of those players were very important to SJ's revival. Would he have been better off getting assets for those players? Or did Lombardi make the right decision, as those players led to SJ's turnaround?

Big difference now is that Boyle, Marleau and Thornton are worth way more in a trade than any of the older players on that previous team. Selanne was a shell of himself due to the bad knee and as much as we all love Nolan, he wasn't as offensively gifted as Boyle, Marleau and Thornton. He sure was great at hitting posts though... Still this team is way better off than that previous one. Much better starting point with players like Couture, Niemi, Burns, the rest of the D... A few of the forwards will be good moving forward too. If Hertl is the real deal I don't see this team missing the playoffs more than maybe this season. The problems are more system than personnel IMO at this point. It would be nice to see what they looked like with Havlat and Clowe and Burns in the lineup at the same time this year though before blowing it up.

This team could rebound very quickly if they made the right trades and got back good young talent. One huge problem I see from years ago to now though is every team plays their young players in the NHL whereas they used to make them work thru the minors unless they were blue chip prospects. A contender who might want these guys will be reluctant to give up the good young prospects because they're playing on their 3rd and 4th lines instead of the minors.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Big difference now is that Boyle, Marleau and Thornton are worth way more in a trade than any of the older players on that previous team. Selanne was a shell of himself due to the bad knee and as much as we all love Nolan, he wasn't as offensively gifted as Boyle, Marleau and Thornton. He sure was great at hitting posts though... Still this team is way better off than that previous one. Much better starting point with players like Couture, Niemi, Burns, the rest of the D... A few of the forwards will be good moving forward too. If Hertl is the real deal I don't see this team missing the playoffs more than maybe this season. The problems are more system than personnel IMO at this point. It would be nice to see what they looked like with Havlat and Clowe and Burns in the lineup at the same time this year though before blowing it up.

This team could rebound very quickly if they made the right trades and got back good young talent. One huge problem I see from years ago to now though is every team plays their young players in the NHL whereas they used to make them work thru the minors unless they were blue chip prospects. A contender who might want these guys will be reluctant to give up the good young prospects because they're playing on their 3rd and 4th lines instead of the minors.

An unfortunate consequence of the salary cap.

Just think of the Sharks. They went from keeping players like Ehrhoff and Clowe in the minors forever. Pavelski, Carle, Vlasic sniffed little AHL time, if any.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

An unfortunate consequence of the salary cap.

Just think of the Sharks. They went from keeping players like Ehrhoff and Clowe in the minors forever. Pavelski, Carle, Vlasic sniffed little AHL time, if any.

Add in Couture and Setoguchi as well.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Add in Couture and Setoguchi as well.

I omitted those two, because those two were "blue-chippers", really. Same reason I didn't like Michalek or Bernier.

 

[WTFetus]

Just think of the Sharks. They went from keeping players like Ehrhoff and Clowe in the minors forever. Pavelski, Carle, Vlasic sniffed little AHL time, if any.

Not really a good example. Excluding the lock-out, Ehrhoff only played half a season in the AHL. Clowe needed time in the AHL to develop because he wasn't NHL ready. When Pavelski and Carle played in the minors, it was clear that they were too good to stay there.

 

[NWShark*]

Just finished watching the game today... very depressed we gave up Coyle. Rare blend of size, skill and skating ability. When he hits his prime he's going to be unstoppable.