Larry Robinson - Greatest Defenseman ever?

[BenchBrawl]

Salming should be on that list ... around fifth. However, a list like this is all just personal preference.

When googling the best, they show the following results:

The 25 best NHL defensemen of all time

Evaluating defensemen can be a tricky subject because defense in hockey has always been a difficult thing to quantify. Is it just about keeping the puck out of your own net?

www.yardbarker.com

No.

Salming was great but he peaked at the same time as Potvin and Robinson and never won a Norris.

I'm not dogmatic about trophy voting but at some point it matters that you never won it if you want to be ranked 5th best ever.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Talking with a buddy other day. Could a case be made Larry Robinson the best defenseman ever in NHL?

Bobby Orr was most offensively skilled but look at Larry's longevity and enforcement role? A tough guy during NHL's toughest era. From hammering Dave Schultz which effectively ended the Flyers rule. To the Dornhoyer hit in Cup Finals. To destroying Sleigher in Boston.

Larry plus 120 in 1977. Orr his best season was 1971, he was +124. Robinson is right there.

He later went onto to be successful coach.

Love Larry - who doesn’t? But he’s not the best ever. He’s not even the best Hab, that would be Doug Harvey who revolutionized the position and if the Norris were around from the start of his career he’d likely have SEVEN.

But I’ll give you a cool Larry Robinson story. Team Canada 1984. The team is packed with Oilers and Islanders all who hated each other. Larry Robinson stood up and lectured them all that they needed to stop acting like rivals and start acting like teammates.

Only Larry Robinson would have the respect to be able do something like that - calling out Gretzky, Bossy, Trottier, Messier, Coffee and Potvin. The team did eventually pull together and win.

Good thing we didn’t return his call when he expressed an interest in being our assistant coach back in 2013…

 

[BenchBrawl]

Robinson gets undervalued when discussing the best ever, probably because he was one piece of a greater Habs' dynasty. But yeah... definitely in the conversation for top-3.

I also got to watch Robinson throughout his prime. Nobody else had such supreme control over the puck and the game around him. Add his longevity and success as a coach and he's right there with Orr.

It's hard to rank Robinson in the Top 3 when Orr and Harvey were clearly more dominant defensemen (automatic Norris winner if healthy), and then you have Potvin who peaked at the same time as Larry and got better Norris results (and just as much playoff success). Then we must consider Bourque and his 5 Norris + 20 years of excellence, and Shore who won 4 Hart trophies and was widely considered the best player of his decade with Morenz.

I feel dirty arguing against Larry here because he's one of my favorite players of all-time, but I can't see it.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Love Larry - who doesn’t? But he’s not the best ever. He’s not even the best Hab, that would be Doug Harvey who revolutionized the position and if the Norris were around from the start of his career he’d likely have SEVEN.

But I’ll give you a cool Larry Robinson story. Team Canada 1984. The team is packed with Oilers and Islanders all who hated each other. Larry Robinson stood up and lectured them all that they needed to stop acting like rivals and start acting like teammates.

Only Larry Robinson would have the respect to be able do something like that - calling out Gretzky, Bossy, Trottier, Messier, Coffee and Potvin. The team did eventually pull together and win.

Good thing we didn’t return his call when he expressed an interest in being our assistant coach back in 2013…

He already has seven Norris trophies. He should have eight if he wasn't injured in 1959 the year Tom Johnson won it.

However, during the pre-Norris years, we have the All-Star Team voting records, and it was Red Kelly who would have won the Norris with a younger Harvey coming in second, if we substitute 1st in AST voting among defensemen as = Norris Trophy, which is reasonable.

That means that Kelly should have won 4 straight Norris trophies total (from 1951 to 1954).

 

[Ozmodiar]

Orr, Lidstrom

Then in no particular order:
Harvey, Robinson, Potvin, Bourque

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Orr, Lidstrom

Then in no particular order:
Harvey, Robinson, Potvin, Bourque

Orr
Harvey
Shore
Lidstrom
Potvin/Bourque
Robinson

In my opinion, there’s just no way Harvey isn’t the 2nd best ever. Revolutionized the position before Orr and would’ve won seven Norrises. You could make a really good argument that he’s the best Hab ever. I have the Rocket there but it’s close.

Eddy Shore could make an argument for being the best player in the league pre 1950 - only Howie Morenz would be better. He won Hart trophies and probably deserves the number three slot.

Then it’s a little dicey between Lidstrom, Bourque and Potvin. I’ll take Lidstrom.

There is no shame in Robinson coming behind those guys. And I have him ahead of tremendous blueliners.

 

[HuGort]

I’d say top 3
Orr
Lidstrom
Robinson

It's valid

Robinson could fight like Wifi. Leadership of a Weber. Offense of a Dougie Hamilton. He did it for 20 years

 

[RealityBytes]

No.

Salming was great but he peaked at the same time as Potvin and Robinson and never won a Norris.

I'm not dogmatic about trophy voting but at some point it matters that you never won it if you want to be ranked 5th best ever.

Robinson played on a strong stacked team while Salming played with a weak team. Switch them on their teams and their player numbers could switch as well.

Yeah, perhaps fifth is too high for Salming, but he was a very good defenseman and ground breaker by being one of the first Europeans to play full time in the NHL. Led the way for many.

As I say, lists like this are all just personal choice and subjective. Even for the Habs, there are probably as many people who say Harvey was better than Robinson as those who say Robinson was better.

 

[HuGort]

Robinson played on a strong stacked team while Salming played with a weak team. Switch them on their teams and their player numbers could switch as well.

Yeah, perhaps fifth is too high for Salming, but he was a very good defenseman and ground breaker by being one of the first Europeans to play full time in the NHL. Led the way for many.

As I say, lists like this are all just personal choice and subjective. Even for the Habs, there are probably as many people who say Harvey was better than Robinson as those who say Robinson was better.

Salming wasn't an enforcer like Robinson. Big Bird was league heavyweight champ. Back in 70s, fighting was big part of the game. It's not now.

 

[HuGort]

Bobby Orr was also the complete package. As great as Larry Robinson was, Orr was better.

Orr only played 650 NHL games though. Robinson played almost 1,400.

 

[Chili]

Robinson played on a strong stacked team while Salming played with a weak team. Switch them on their teams and their player numbers could switch as well.

Yeah, perhaps fifth is too high for Salming, but he was a very good defenseman and ground breaker by being one of the first Europeans to play full time in the NHL. Led the way for many.

As I say, lists like this are all just personal choice and subjective. Even for the Habs, there are probably as many people who say Harvey was better than Robinson as those who say Robinson was better.

Salming had a target on him like no one else I have seen. Every Euro NHLer should know about the abuse he endured because they benefitted from the respect he earned. He also played for the Chuck Barris of owners. It was a clown show at times, as long as Ballard was making money things were good. If Salming had played on a better team his career would look even better. He's one of the best I saw for sure.

 

[Rapala]

I watched both Orr and Robinson from rookie year to retirement. No question, it's Orr. He revolutionalized the position. No one had seen anyone play defense like him before. He was very difficult to play against both as a scorer and a defender. He was a shadow of himself during the 1976 Canada Cup due to chronic injuries but even then, he was often the best defenseman on the ice. Robinson and Serge Savard are tied for a very close second.

Orr was better than 97% of the league on one leg. I also brought up Robinson in another thread stating the best Enforcers rarely have to fight.
They were completely different players Bobby Orr's greatest attribute was his balance and his ability to strip pucks and skate the other way. He didn't join the rush he was the rush.

 

[JianYang]

Savard, as good a GM he was, saw it fit to rush Larry out of town, when he wanted more money.

Seeing him in a Kings uniform was such a sad site for most Habs fans. Savard made a huge mistake there.................Larry should have never left Montreal.


Orr as a dman did NOT have the toughness of a Dman.............Robinson had the edge there big time.
Orr was the offensive dynamo.....could skate like the wind when ever he wanted.

At the time, an older Robinson was probably deemed expendable given the depth the organization had at the position.

We talk about the Habs defensive pipeline now and how strong it is, but I still don't think it comes close to what the Habs had by 1989.

 

[CTHabsfan]

Orr only played 650 NHL games though. Robinson played almost 1,400.

So? Bobby Orr was the better player, Larry Robinson had better knees.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Salming wasn't an enforcer like Robinson. Big Bird was league heavyweight champ. Back in 70s, fighting was big part of the game. It's not now.

Robinson could fight and when he did the other guy lost. But he was a more gentle player and didn’t fight often. I don’t think it’s accurate to call him an enforcer.

More like… a nuclear deterrent.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Robinson played on a strong stacked team while Salming played with a weak team. Switch them on their teams and their player numbers could switch as well.

I don’t think so. Robinson stood out on a team with Lapointe and Savard. He was everything you wanted in a blueliner and is a few cuts above Salming.

 

[Kimota]

Bobby Orr was also the complete package. As great as Larry Robinson was, Orr was better.

Naaaa

Doug Harvey says hello. So does Eddy Shore.

My uncle said Harvey was the first real elite D. And that he would control a whole game by himself.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Naaaa


My uncle said Harvey was the first real elite D. And that he would control a whole game by himself.

He was the first real mobile defender. He really did revolutionize the position. Eddie Shore was a completely different dude. Meanest guy who ever played.

And there are hilarious stories about when he became an owner. Check those out. Dude was crazy.

 

[Kimota]

He was the first real mobile defender. He really did revolutionize the position. Eddie Shore was a completely different dude. Meanest guy who ever played.

And there are hilarious stories about when he became an owner. Check those out. Dude was crazy.

Didn't he become a minor league coach as well? I heard he was tough as Hell as coach too. Or maybe It was another guy, not sure.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Orr
Harvey
Bourque
Lidstrom

After that we can discuss Robinson with Potvin and Shore

 

[HuGort]

So? Bobby Orr was the better player, Larry Robinson had better knees.

It was a factor yes, durable

Robinson could fight and when he did the other guy lost. But he was a more gentle player and didn’t fight often. I don’t think it’s accurate to call him an enforcer.

More like… a nuclear deterrent.

Other tough guys would not take advantage of our finesse players when Robinson was playing. So, yes he was an affective enforcer. Due to his high ability to fight more than how often. Because they knew who they had to answer to.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Orr
Harvey
Bourque
Lidstrom

After that we can discuss Robinson with Potvin and Shore

Shore’s from a different time. Harder to compare. But the guy has at least a couple of Harts and is considered legendary. Possibly the best first half century player. He certainly warrants discussion at number three. And I have to go with Lidstrom at that spot otherwise. Guy was a machine.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It was a factor yes, durable


Other tough guys would not take advantage of our finesse players when Robinson was playing. So, yes he was an affective enforcer. Due to his high ability to fight more than how often. Because they knew who they had to answer to.

An enforcer implies that he fought all the time. He didn’t.

But you’re right that he was feared and respected - hence, nuclear deterrent. Our enforcer was John Ferguson.

 

[HuGort]

Orr, Potvin, Lindstrom, they all played on dynasty caliber teams. It's not a deterrent to Robinson that he played on best team ever.

 

[Moose Head]

It's a great conversation and I believe top 10 is more realistic. You also have to consider that he played with Savard and Lapointe which helped him immensely.

I was so lucky to be a teenager in the 70's and got to see that Habs dynasty.

Sam Pollock doesn't get enough recognition for building that team.

Incidentally, their coach for most of the time they played together, Scotty Bowman, says Savard was the best of the three.