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Lane Hutson Burgeoning Star Watch

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Romang67 said:
No, what happened was that you posted this:

You didn't get called out about Luke out of nowhere. You brought up Luke Hughes unprompted, and users showed his defensive stats over this season, and in particular compared them to Lane Hutson's defensive stats.

What you're seeing isn't victim mentality. It's people pointing out that no, Hughes isn't struggling defensively this season. The team isn't allowing many goals against with him on the ice, and his xGA is low. Hutson is, for the record, pacing to have the worst xGA in years.

So don't complain about "the usual suspects" and other posters "crying" when they are simply pointing out your extremely flawed arguments.

If anything, victim mentality would be making yourself the victim in this discussion when you yourself was the one who tried to shift the topic.
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I'm not a Devils fan. I don't watch Devils games unless they play the Habs. I don't care about the Devils at all. I specifically talked about yesterday game. Is it too hard to agree that he was awful yesterday?
 
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Baksfamous112 said:
I'm not a Devils fan. I don't watch Devils games unless they play the Habs. I don't care about the Devils at all. I specifically talked about yesterday game. Is it too hard to agree that he was awful yesterday?
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What in the world does that have to do with anything?

In a thread about Lane Hutson, you tried to shift the conversation to Luke Hughes, presumably to distract from the fact that Lane Hutson has gotten absolutely smoked in xGA the entire season except for a brief 3 game stretch against some of the worst opponents in the league. You were corrected about Luke Hughes's defensive play over the season as a whole this far and started complaining about victim mentality.

Do you see how everyone else in this thread is not the issue here? Or do I need to type it slower?
 
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dgibb10 said:
Perhaps the defensve play of these 2 players has an impact on that. Lane made a pretty atrocious play cheating down low in the ozone (without the puck) letting Jack spring free for a breakaway goal.
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when they were down by a goal?

Are you really suggesting that if Montreal had Luke Hughes they would be a different team defensively? Your takes are horrible and biased.

MOGlLNY said:
For me, I think Hutson is going to be more on the level of Torey Krug in his prime (which is a great player! A #1 defenseman even. This isn't an insult by any means) not a superstar.
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Its early in his career, I see a lot of positives for him but I don't see anything transcendent at the nhl level yet.

He is certainly not put in a position to impress though. I think he'll be a great pp quarterback who is passable defensively.
 
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If you decide to go into camp with the idea of savard is the guy that is going to mentor this kid on a pairing…….. then you deserve the outcome

Bad coaching and bad management

They have 10 picks in the first 3 rounds, don’t tell me they didn’t have the capital to target someone or at free agency.

Savard had some of the worst underlying defensive numbers in the NHL last season

All indications they are incredibly high on him, so get him the partner necessary to help him play his game
 
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Frank Drebin said:
when they were down by a goal?

Are you really suggesting that if Montreal had Luke Hughes they would be a different team defensively? Your takes are horrible and biased.


Its early in his career, I see a lot of positives for him but I don't see anything transcendent at the nhl level yet.

He is certainly not put in a position to impress though. I think he'll be a great pp quarterback who is passable defensively.
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I'm suggesting the habs would be better with Luke Hughes yes.
 
Breakers said:
If you decide to go into camp with the idea of savard is the guy that is going to mentor this kid on a pairing…….. then you deserve the outcome

Bad coaching and bad management

They have 10 picks in the first 3 rounds, don’t tell me they didn’t have the capital to target someone

Savard had some of the worst underlying defensive numbers in the NHL last season

All indications they are incredibly high on him, so get him the partner necessary to help him play his game
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They're choosing to be patient and let the bad veteran contracts out, but yes they will have to surround the young core with real help soon(if not yesterday) or it's gonna have permenant damage to their development. Gorton kind of got fired for the same exact reason in NY
 
Romang67 said:
What in the world does that have to do with anything?

In a thread about Lane Hutson, you tried to shift the conversation to Luke Hughes, presumably to distract from the fact that Lane Hutson has gotten absolutely smoked in xGA the entire season except for a brief 3 game stretch against some of the worst opponents in the league. You were corrected about Luke Hughes's defensive play over the season as a whole this far and started complaining about victim mentality.

Do you see how everyone else in this thread is not the issue here? Or do I need to type it slower?
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It's an acknowledgement that Hutson need to grow defensively (duh! He's 20 and has 15 NHL games experience). Seeing Luke struggle is encouraging because it shows Hutson isn't the only young (duh! again) D who's not entirely sound defensively yet. Again, couldn't care less what the advanced stats shows. Hughes was horrible last night and overall I thought Hutson had a better game defensively than Luke. Anyone who watched the game with a non-bias view could say so.

Yes, the entire Habs team is getting caved in night in, night out since the start of the season. That also means that yes, a 20 years old with 15 games experience advanced stats isn't going to be good. This isn't rocket science.

But anyway, since the others have asked me and I answered, why not ask you. What made Luke have a good game yesterday (and overall this season?) and what makes Hutson a bad defensive player so far in his career and specifically yesterday?

You can type it slower as well if it makes you feel better.
 
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Baksfamous112 said:
It's an acknowledgement that Hutson need to grow defensively (duh! He's 20 and has 15 NHL games experience). Seeing Luke struggle is encouraging because it shows Hutson isn't the only young (duh! again) D who's not entirely sound defensively yet. Again, couldn't care less what the advanced stats shows. Hughes was horrible last night and overall I thought Hutson had a better game defensively than Luke. Anyone who watched the game with a non-bias view could say so.

Yes, the entire Habs team is getting caved in night in, night out since the start of the season. That also means that yes, a 20 years old with 15 games experience advanced stats isn't going to be good. This isn't rocket science.

But anyway, since the others have asked me and I answered, why not ask you. What made Luke have a good game yesterday (and overall this season?) and what makes Hutson a bad defensive player so far in his career and specifically yesterday?

You can type it slower as well if it makes you feel better.
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Luke is better positionally, bigger, stronger, and a much better skater.

Hutson consistently gets caught cheating down low and doesn't have the wheels to catch up

Hutson got straight bullied by Haula behind the net on the Siegs goal.
Hutson couldn't do anything close to keeping up with Jack on the backcheck (they started from basically the same spot) on his goal
 
Breakers said:
If you decide to go into camp with the idea of savard is the guy that is going to mentor this kid on a pairing…….. then you deserve the outcome

Bad coaching and bad management

They have 10 picks in the first 3 rounds, don’t tell me they didn’t have the capital to target someone or at free agency.

Savard had some of the worst underlying defensive numbers in the NHL last season

All indications they are incredibly high on him, so get him the partner necessary to help him play his game
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It's been widely reported that they are in the market for a top 4 RHD, presumably to play with Hutson.

Now that we got out of the way, who do you think is available that fits the need and wouldn't cost an arm and a leg and is available? I'll wait.

dgibb10 said:
Luke is better positionally, bigger, stronger, and a much better skater.

Hutson consistently gets caught cheating down low and doesn't have the wheels to catch up
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Okay, show me examples.

edit* Yet Hutson has won more puck battles (both in numbers and %) than Hughes yesterday. How come?
 
Baksfamous112 said:
It's been widely reported that they are in the market for a top 4 RHD, presumably to play with Hutson.

Now that we got out of the way, who do you think is available that fits the need and wouldn't cost an arm and a leg and is available? I'll wait.


Okay, show me examples.
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The siegs goal and the jack goal. Out of position and bullied off the puck.

But I'm sure it's just a weird coincidence that Hutson ranks near the bottom in terms of preventing chances against, while luke ranks near the top
 
It still to me looks like MSL is letting Hutson do whatever he wants out there. I would blame the decision making if you want to call it that on the coach not the player. 27 minutes last night.
 
Frank Drebin said:
As in, not a bottom 3 team? He would make them better in a meaningful way?

Rhetorical question that we both know the answer to.
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Luke Hughe's skating allows him to do things himself sometimes and score his own goals. Hutson is more about his vision and quick thinking which is more reliant on other players.

So on a bad team that would probably let Luke "go wild" and have the puck on his stick more I think He would probably be better for the Hab's RIGHT NOW.

If he really was on the Hab's I don't know if I would even woudl have put him in the NHL yet because of learning bad habits. He'd get a lot of points but he'd not work on his defensive game and turn into Barrie when he could be much more.

Frank Drebin said:
It still to me looks like MSL is letting Hutson do whatever he wants out there. I would blame the decision making if you want to call it that on the coach not the player. 27 minutes last night.
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as I said earlier he definitely should not be playing that much. He's going to be worn out by December. Everyone knows that the NHL grind is hard for rookies especially MSL who's a former player so I don't get why he's doing it.
 
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Baksfamous112 said:
It's an acknowledgement that Hutson need to grow defensively (duh! He's 20 and has 15 NHL games experience). Seeing Luke struggle is encouraging because it shows Hutson isn't the only young (duh! again) D who's not entirely sound defensively yet. Again, couldn't care less what the advanced stats shows. Hughes was horrible last night and overall I thought Hutson had a better game defensively than Luke. Anyone who watched the game with a non-bias view could say so.

Yes, the entire Habs team is getting caved in night in, night out since the start of the season. That also means that yes, a 20 years old with 15 games experience advanced stats isn't going to be good. This isn't rocket science.

But anyway, since the others have asked me and I answered, why not ask you. What made Luke have a good game yesterday (and overall this season?) and what makes Hutson a bad defensive player so far in his career and specifically yesterday?

You can type it slower as well if it makes you feel better.
Click to expand...
So what you're claiming is that your comment denigrating Luke Hughes game was to acknowledge that Hutson needed to grow defensively?

This comment:
Baksfamous112 said:
After watching Luke Hughes yesterday I feel much better about Hutson defensive game.
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Was your acknowledging that Lane Hutson needed to grow defensively? Because it sure still looks like a poster trying to shift the conversation away from the topic of conversation onto another player.

And despite that, when people showed you that Luke Hughes is doing fine defensively as a whole this season, you complain about "victim mentality"? Instead of basking in how if Luke Hughes is doing well defensively, that must surely mean that Hutson is doing fantastic defensively, if last night's game was a reflection on how they have looked this season.

I assume the reason why the numbers show Hughes having a better defensive game was in part because the Habs allowed 5 high danger scoring chances and two goals against with Hutson on the ice, while the Devils had 2 high danger scoring chances against with Hughes on the ice. High danger scoring chances tend to result in bad xGA.
Frank Drebin said:
I think if Montreal had a top team and Hutson only looked good against horrible teams your original point would have merit.
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My original point being the exact thing I said, that Lane Hutson If Hutson is out there getting killed defensively by practically every team in the league? I would say there is merit to the point that he's getting killed defensively. Again, he's pacing for the worst xGA by any player in the league in years. What exactly did you think my original point was, if it's not the thing I said?
 
Xirik said:
Luke Hughe's skating allows him to do things himself sometimes and score his own goals. Hutson is more about his vision and quick thinking which is more reliant on other players.

So on a bad team that would probably let Luke "go wild" and have the puck on his stick more I think He would probably be better for the Hab's RIGHT NOW.

If he really was on the Hab's I don't know if I would even woudl have put him in the NHL yet because of learning bad habits. He'd get a lot of points but he'd not work on his defensive game and turn into Barrie when he could be much more.
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I'm not even trying to debate who is the better young defenseman. L Hughes was drafted 4oa. He's supposed to be better.

But Gibbs was suggesting that Montreal was bad and NJD was good because they had each respective player on their team. As if trading 20 year old defensemen would create any meaningful difference.

Romang67 said:
My original point being the exact thing I said, that Lane Hutson If Hutson is out there getting killed defensively by practically every team in the league, I would say there is merit to the point that he's getting killed defensively. Again, he's pacing for the worst xGA by any player in the league in years. What exactly did you think my original point was, if it's not the thing I said?
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You said hes getting killed, except when he plays bad teams. I am not well versed with advanced stats and really dont' care to learn, but I believe things like expected goals for and against are not truly individual stats, they are impacted by all 5 players on the ice and it would be extremely difficult to have impressive xgf and xga stats playing for a bottom 3 team that is horrible defensively.
 
Frank Drebin said:
I'm not even trying to debate who is the better young defenseman. L Hughes was drafted 4oa. He's supposed to be better.

But Gibbs was suggesting that Montreal was bad and NJD was good because they had each respective player on their team. As if trading 20 year old defensemen would create any meaningful difference.


You said hes getting killed, except when he plays bad teams.
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No, I didn't say that. I said he had a brief 3 game stretch when he wasn't being killed. He has 3.5xGA in two games against the Penguins, and the Penguins are atrocious.
 
Habs prospects/young players get both instant love and instant hate.

What I’ve learned from this thread:

1. Hutson is a bludgeoning star
2. Hutson is a bust
3. Hutson is a Hughes brother
4. Hutsons head fakes are elite
5. hutson is Marc Andre Bergeron 2.0
 
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Frank Drebin said:
I'm not even trying to debate who is the better young defenseman. L Hughes was drafted 4oa. He's supposed to be better.

But Gibbs was suggesting that Montreal was bad and NJD was good because they had each respective player on their team. As if trading 20 year old defensemen would create any meaningful difference.


You said hes getting killed, except when he plays bad teams.
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I was suggesting that having better dmen helps make a teams defense better.

Frankly, I think the excuses from bad teams about their players struggling are often simply that, excuses. I do not give much credit to guys who get significantly worse results, especially when the gap is this big.

We are talking about Luke being currently near the top of the leaderboard in terms of chances against, and Hutson being near the bottom.

At what point does it stop? you could use this across the board to justify every player on a bad team being better than the corresponding player on a good team.
 
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