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New York Islanders: Lamoriello Contract Not Renewed; John Collins Searching for Next GM

Konk said:
I do think that can happen as well, but I think most are cognizant of that. I also think perhaps that is more relevant to Canadian kids that are literally on the radar from early teens onwards, that stay within the CHL until they're drafted. Especially exceptional status players.

I don't think it's the case with Hagens.

What are your thoughts?
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I wasnt specifically referencing Hagens but more of a general comment. I do agree that over analyzing is most likely with players who have been on the radar for a long time. I’m personally not in love with this draft. Admittedly I don’t follow prospects like you do but I don’t see any elite talents in the draft. I see a few high end players. I would go Schaefer, Hagens, Martone. I don’t like Misa. So I guess anyone saying Hagens isn’t a top 3 in this draft has perhaps over analyzed him.
 
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Glory Days said:
I wasnt specifically referencing Hagens but more of a general comment. I do agree that over analyzing is most likely with players who have been on the radar for a long time. I’m personally not in love with this draft. Admittedly I don’t follow prospects like you do but I don’t see any elite talents in the draft. I see a few high end players. I would go Schaefer, Hagens, Martone. I don’t like Misa. So I guess anyone saying Hagens isn’t a top 3 in this draft has perhaps over analyzed him.
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Can I ask why you don't like Misa? Im curious to wonder why
 
Glory Days said:
I wasnt specifically referencing Hagens but more of a general comment. I do agree that over analyzing is most likely with players who have been on the radar for a long time. I’m personally not in love with this draft. Admittedly I don’t follow prospects like you do but I don’t see any elite talents in the draft. I see a few high end players. I would go Schaefer, Hagens, Martone. I don’t like Misa. So I guess anyone saying Hagens isn’t a top 3 in this draft has perhaps over analyzed him.
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I really like Schaefer, Martin, and a few others. There are some intriguing guys outside of the first round as well, like Mason West.

That said, I do personally see Schaefer as an elite level talent, but he's the lone one. I don't see much difference between Misa, Martone, or Hagens and guys like Desnoyers aren't far off, either.

It's a weaker draft overall, so not a lot to get excited about in general.
 
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ScaredStreit said:
There's a reason why certain organziations have so many players who exceed their expectations by a country mile and while some rarely do. Could it be scouting? Sure. But when it's consistently late round picks in the draft I don't think that's it.

If Tampa knew what Kucherov and Point were capable of via scouting they both would have been 1st round picks. Also that's just one team....if scouting was so vital how did every team miss both of those players?
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Jalen Brunson, Tom Brady, any number of MLB players....

Scouting departments miss on players all the time in every sport - Because scouting is not an exact science.

I mean look at Anthony Duclair. He's on his NINTH (9th) team before the age of 30. He has a hell of a lot more potential than he's been showing on any of those teams. So I guess you're saying that 9 separate NHL teams failed him...And not the other way around?

I guess if Michael Dal Colle was drafted by the Lighting, he would've made in.

Nail Yakupov got drafted by those inept Oilers...Who also drafted Connor McDavid. Must be the coaching - Only some of the time?

Come on.
 
doublechili said:
What drives me crazy is that you replied specifically to my mention of Pridham as GM and you discounted him purely because he's coming from TOR, and then I brought up a great GM like Zito coming from a bad organization like CBJ and you changed the subject to Shanahan.

I'll ask again, would you discount Brandon Pridham as GM simply because he'd be coming from TOR? Simple question.

And BTW, I did say what I thought about the possibility of Shanahan as POHO - in pretty good detail. Look it up (because you just made me do a lot of work!).
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Sorry I made you do a lot of work...

Let me say this...I don't think any of us know the role that Pridham played in Toronto decision-making, but I wouldn't want anyone from Toronto that had a heavy hand in the direction of that team as I'm not sure any team over the past decade has done less with more.

There are assistants all over the NHL and it's very hard to know what their full roles are. If you can tell me that Pridham wanted to trade Marner before they gave him his last (insane) contract to fix their goaltending/defensive situation and make them a better overall team then I'd be like, "Oh - This guy gets it." However no way to prove that - Or the role that Zito had in Columbus. Perhaps Zito is just benefitting from a great surrounding cast who he leans on for advice/decision-making. However you cannot argue with the trades Zito has made since taking over, and certainly not results the Panthers have been getting during that time as well.

Anyway I'll try to judge each individual case by case, but when you see Lou, Shanahan, Dubas, etc coming out of Toronto, it's hard to believe that one guy (much less miutiple) are so sharp/smart/savvy that they could save another franchise if put in charge there.
 
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Thrasymachus said:


According to the news, Marc Bergevin will get a management position with the Islanders, VP or GM. The Habs should forget about any trade involving Horvat or Barzal. I can't imagine Bergevin dealing with MTL, the reconstruction? No, Marc is more of a "reset guy." To be continued.
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Ahhhhh...

Won't believe Staple....Will believe this guy who no one has ever heard of and literally puts in his post, "According to news..."
 
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periferal said:
Sorry I made you do a lot of work...

Let me say this...I don't think any of us know the role that Pridham played in Toronto decision-making, but I wouldn't want anyone from Toronto that had a heavy hand in the direction of that team as I'm not sure any team over the past decade has done less with more.

There are assistants all over the NHL and it's very hard to know what their full roles are. If you can tell me that Pridham wanted to trade Marner before they gave him his last (insane) contract to fix their goaltending/defensive situation and make them a better overall team then I'd be like, "Oh - This guy gets it." However no way to prove that - Or the role that Zito had in Columbus. Perhaps Zito is just benefitting from a great surrounding cast who he leans on for advice/decision-making. However you cannot argue with the trades Zito has made since taking over, and certainly not results the Panthers have been getting during that time as well.

Anyway I'll try to judge each individual case by case, but when you see Lou, Shanahan, Dubas, etc coming out of Toronto, it's hard to believe that one guy (much less miutiple) are so sharp/smart/savvy that they could save another franchise if put in charge there.
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We know very little about anyone who isn't a GM so the wait and see approach is way more appropriate than getting upset or excited because someone came from a specific organization. The only exception to that may be if there's a clear line of tutelage that exists and has shown to create winners (like Bill Parcells in the NFL did). I'm not aware of anything quite like that in the NHL though.
 
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Thrasymachus said:
The women certainly are. Quebec is a good dating scene :sarcasm:
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Non-English speaking... perfect for some posters on this board. :sarcasm:

periferal said:
Sorry I made you do a lot of work...

Let me say this...I don't think any of us know the role that Pridham played in Toronto decision-making, but I wouldn't want anyone from Toronto that had a heavy hand in the direction of that team as I'm not sure any team over the past decade has done less with more.

There are assistants all over the NHL and it's very hard to know what their full roles are. If you can tell me that Pridham wanted to trade Marner before they gave him his last (insane) contract to fix their goaltending/defensive situation and make them a better overall team then I'd be like, "Oh - This guy gets it." However no way to prove that - Or the role that Zito had in Columbus. Perhaps Zito is just benefitting from a great surrounding cast who he leans on for advice/decision-making. However you cannot argue with the trades Zito has made since taking over, and certainly not results the Panthers have been getting during that time as well.

Anyway I'll try to judge each individual case by case, but when you see Lou, Shanahan, Dubas, etc coming out of Toronto, it's hard to believe that one guy (much less miutiple) are so sharp/smart/savvy that they could save another franchise if put in charge there.
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Yeah, that's the thing with the AGMs, you can only go by what you read and hear, and you kind of figure if they work for a successful team and are learning from a good GM, they'll be good. But that's not always the case. And as you said, we don't know if they signed off on things, or wanted to do things differently than their team did. Darche sounds great, but TBL made one of the worst trades of the past few years when they sent a haul of picks for a 4th liner who didn't pan out with them - but was that his idea or did he argue against it, or something in between?

Ultimately, we go back to that Botta thing you posted a while back where he said that Malkin and Collins are the ones in the room doing the interviews; and we don't know what they're seeing and hearing from these guys. Hopefully they make the right choice.
 
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The GM Search


If (and I say "if") we are to believe the reports of who has been interviewed and isnow being considered for GM/President, then to me the choice is so simple...

  • Marc Bergevin - Without a hall of fame goaltender (who he didn't draft) carrying them to a finals appearance, his time with Montreal would've been an embarrssment of high profile trades that are exciting, but distract from results. He's Mike Milbury 2.0 the way he wields trades as if the more wild the trade the better his team would be. And perhaps the biggest eye-opener of why the Isles should avoid Bergevin is...Even the team he iis currently working for, the Kings, didn't even want him as GM. Nothing else should need to be said, but for some reason the Isles are still considering him.
  • Jarmo Kekäläinen - Garth Snow had as many playoff series wins as this guy. He's a lesser GM that Lou. Seems like a nice guy so I'd root for him, but let the Sabres take a chance that he actually is somehow much better at his job now because...Why exactly? The entire NHL thought so little of him that, unlike Bergevin, he couldn't get any position on any NHL team since he was fired by Columbus. On what planet should we be the team to hire him to run everything? Not if we want to win.
  • Brendan Shanahan - Things going swimmingly in Toronto eh (Canadien accent)? Dude hires Lou, Dubas, and Treveling, has multiple top 10 picks, and wins 2 series in a decade. Embarrassing. The Leafs might actually be talented enough to win a Cup, but are a bunch of absolute spineless jellyfish who have no leadership or grit. How this was never identified and solved in all this time is a joke. We love to watch the Leafs lose annually, but now imagine that was your favorite team. You'd be throwing Isles jerseys on the ice, and this is "Leafs Kingdom" under Shanahan. And this is the guy you want over here creating "Isles nation?" Uh...No.
  • Mathieu Darche - Legit buzz about the guy being the next great GM. What does that mean...? Not much until he proves it. And that's a very important point...The other 3 names above have already proved something - That they aren't good enough. There's certainly a chance that Darche is given a chance and totally flops, but right now he's unknown with promise...And that is so much better than known ineptitude. Not only that, but Darche is the only one both fully employed by an NHL team and employed for a very well run franchise - And I think that matters a lot. He's also the guy that if hired I think you'd hear other NHL executives/fans/media buzz that "you got a good one," but if we hired any of the other 3 I think there's be a lot of snickering at us - If not outright laughter. Darche's resume is beyond worth giving a shot and he'd be the most exciting candidate of all being considered. And I am also fine if Darche is hired just as GM and they keep searching for a President later. We just need to get a GM in here very soon to be ready for the draft/offseason .

I'm fully open to other candidates, but since basically no others were reported other than possibly Scott White in Dallas (although I don't see how they could wait for the Stars to be eliminated at this point). Seems like this search is coming to an end, and probably our next President/GM has already been interviewed.

Now I hope/pray the Isles make the right choice. It's possible that no one they've interviewed is good enough to get us to a Cup, but I guarantee some of those they have interviewed never could. Take the guy with easily the best resume (who just needs a chance). Now that would be truly exciting.
 
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periferal said:
The GM Search


If (and I say "if") we are to believe the reports of who has been interviewed and isnow being considered for GM/President, then to me the choice is so simple...

  • Marc Bergevin - Without a hall of fame goaltender (who he didn't draft) carrying them to a finals appearance, his time with Montreal would've been an embarrssment of high profile trades that are exciting, but distract from results. He's Mike Milbury 2.0 the way he wields trades as if the more wild the trade the better his team would be. And perhaps the biggest eye-opener of why the Isles should avoid Bergevin is...Even the team he iis currently working for, the Kings, didn't even want him as GM. Nothing else should need to be said, but for some reason the Isles are still considering him.
  • Jarmo Kekäläinen - Garth Snow had as many playoff series wins as this guy. He's a lesser GM that Lou. Seems like a nice guy so I'd root for him, but let the Sabres take a chance that he actually is somehow much better at his job now because...Why exactly? The entire NHL thought so little of him that, unlike Bergevin, he couldn't get any position on any NHL team since he was fired by Columbus. On what planet should we be the team to hire him to run everything? Not if we want to win.
  • Brendan Shanahan - Things going swimmingly in Toronto eh (Canadien accent)? Dude hires Lou, Dubas, and Treveling, has multiple top 10 picks, and wins 2 series in a decade. Embarrassing. The Leafs might actually be talented enough to win a Cup, but are a bunch of absolute spineless jellyfish who have no leadership or grit. How this was never identified and solved in all this time is a joke. We love to watch the Leafs lose annually, but now imagine that was your favorite team. You'd be throwing Isles jerseys on the ice, and this is "Leafs Kingdom" under Shanahan. And this is the guy you want over here creating "Isles nation?" Uh...No.
  • Mathieu Darche - Legit buzz about the guy being the next great GM. What does that mean...? Not much until he proves it. And that's a very important point...The other 3 names above have already proved something - That they aren't good enough. There's certainly a chance that Darche is given a chance and totally flops, but right now he's unknown with promise...And that is so much better than known ineptitude. Not only that, but Darche is the only one both fully employed by an NHL team and employed for a very well run franchise - And I think that matters a lot. He's also the guy that if hired I think you'd hear other NHL executives/fans/media buzz that "you got a good one," but if we hired any of the other 3 I think there's be a lot of snickering at us - If not outright laughter. Darche's resume is beyond worth giving a shot and he'd be the most exciting candidate of all being considered. And I am also fine if Darche is hired just as GM and they keep searching for a President later. We just need to get a GM in here very soon to be ready for the draft/offseason .

I'm fully open to other candidates, but since basically no others were reported other than possibly Scott White in Dallas (although I don't see how they could wait for the Stars to be eliminated at this point). Seems like this search is coming to an end, and probably our next President/GM has already been interviewed.

Now I hope/pray the Isles make the right choice. It's possible that no one they've interviewed is good enough to get us to a Cup, but I guarantee some of those they have interviewed never could. Take the guy with easily the best resume (who just needs a chance). Now that would be truly exciting.
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Would you be "okay" with Bergevin (or Shanahan) as POHO and Darche as GM? If "the buzz" is to be believed, that could be the best outcome at this point....

Then again, I don't believe the buzz. Maybe instead there's an announcement that we traded Barzal for Gorton and a 2nd round pick.
 
doublechili said:
Would you be "okay" with Bergevin (or Shanahan) as POHO and Darche as GM? If "the buzz" is to be believed, that could be the best outcome at this point....
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Well if you're giving me another one of the "no other options - You must choose one of these two options" situations...Then I would be "ok" with Bergevin as President and Darche as GM.

Basically...Anything that keeps Bergevin/Jarmo away from being our GM.

My problem is that Bergevin is so hot-headed like Mulbury that after a year he could fire Darche for any silly reason and, just like Milbury, appoint himself the GM and then it's as if you just hired him as GM today.

Think about it...You only know a handful of NHL Team Presidents. If Bergevin were hired in any capacity he would be the biggest name in the front office - And not because he's incredibly diligent, level-headed, pragmatic, with an excellent overall vision for an organization. I think he'd be an unnecessary distraction - A distraction who wouldn't get the job done.

I'm happy to be wrong on this, but I'd be even happier to give someone else with a much better resume than Bergevin a shot.
 
periferal said:
Well if you're giving me another one of the "no other options - You must choose one of these two options" situations...Then I would be "ok" with Bergevin as President and Darche as GM.

Basically...Anything that keeps Bergevin/Jarmo away from being our GM.

My problem is that Bergevin is so hot-headed like Mulbury that after a year he could fire Darche for any silly reason and, just like Milbury, appoint himself the GM and then it's as if you just hired him as GM today.

Think about it...You only know a handful of NHL Team Presidents. If Bergevin were hired in any capacity he would be the biggest name in the front office - And not because he's incredibly diligent, level-headed, pragmatic, with an excellent overall vision for an organization. I think he'd be an unnecessary distraction - A distraction who wouldn't get the job done.

I'm happy to be wrong on this, but I'd be even happier to give someone else with a much better resume than Bergevin a shot.
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Milbury made 2 of the worst trades in nhl history. Bergevin actually made a few good trades. Both are hot heads I’ll give you that.
 
periferal said:
My problem is that Bergevin is so hot-headed like Mulbury that after a year he could fire Darche for any silly reason and, just like Milbury, appoint himself the GM and then it's as if you just hired him as GM today.

Think about it...You only know a handful of NHL Team Presidents. If Bergevin were hired in any capacity he would be the biggest name in the front office - And not because he's incredibly diligent, level-headed, pragmatic, with an excellent overall vision for an organization. I think he'd be an unnecessary distraction - A distraction who wouldn't get the job done.
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Bergevin is a very streaky person when it comes to trades either way. If he hits, that trade will work out for the team. If it doesn't (i.e a Drouin for Sergachev swap), the error hurts said team for a while. Imo, the isles will be fine if they get him, but just know its the complete opposite from Lou
 
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