New York Islanders: Lamoriello Contract Not Renewed; John Collins Searching for Next GM

[PK Cronin]

 

[Konk]

LOL, we've already established there is no rule, or an exception to be had. There's no certainty. So it's opinion. Nobody would look at the Caps roster and think they were Stanley Cup contenders to start the season. Again, you have an opinion and I have an opinion. Stop acting like yours is fact.

No one is acting like my opinion is a fact, but you're in fantasy land where all teams have an equal shot at the cup. There are clearly favorites every year, teams with a more realistic chance at winning, established by regular season accomplishments and playoff records in previous years. Teams usually don't go from missing the playoffs for several years or never having won a playoff series to winning the Cup.

Most teams that end up in the Finals have had some regular season success and/or have had some playoff success in previous years. This is especially true for most teams that end up winning the Cup every year. These are undeniable, widely accepted facts that are the "rules" to becoming a Stanley Cup contender. Carolina was clearly the exception, or else that would happen a lot more often. There's a reason why going from missing the playoffs to Cup champion is a rare accomplishment.

So you can continue pretending that a team that had never even won a playoff series and snuck into the last wildcard slot in the 2nd to last game of the season was a Cup contender, while everyone else was well aware that they were not. It only makes you look silly.

 

[Fantom]

well the search will keep going

 

[Kevin27nyi]

Can someone explain to me how this is a clusterf***?

Lebrun reports we have three interviews this week, are we just looking for immediate results and it’s not fitting our timeline and not the timeline of an NHL franchise? Did you want Bergevin hired before Darche was available to even interview?

 

[doublechili]

Can someone explain to me how this is a clusterf***?

Lebrun reports we have three interviews this week, are we just looking for immediate results and it’s not fitting our timeline and not the timeline of an NHL franchise? Did you want Bergevin hired before Darche was available to even interview?

If they hired someone already, there would be complaints that they didn't investigate enough options.

 

[Fantom]

No one is acting like my opinion is a fact, but you're in fantasy land where all teams have an equal shot at the cup. There are clearly favorites every year, teams with a more realistic chance at winning, established by regular season accomplishments and playoff records in previous years. Teams usually don't go from missing the playoffs for several years or never having won a playoff series to winning the Cup.

Most teams that end up in the Finals have had some regular season success and/or have had some playoff success in previous years. This is especially true for most teams that end up winning the Cup every year. These are undeniable, widely accepted facts that are the "rules" to becoming a Stanley Cup contender. Carolina was clearly the exception, or else that would happen a lot more often. There's a reason why going from missing the playoffs to Cup champion is a rare accomplishment.

So you can continue pretending that a team that had never even won a playoff series and snuck into the last wildcard slot in the 2nd to last game of the season was a Cup contender, while everyone else was well aware that they were not. It only makes you look silly.

any team that makes the "show" has a chance. however with that being mentioned some teams have higher odds you are correct. the same thing can be said on the flip side making it in a fav does not mean you will win. Technically at the start of the playoffs all 16 teams really do have a equal shot

 

[periferal]

I'm not saying Darche wouldn't be awesome, but what do we really have to go on with him? He became TBL AGM after the team was built, and since then they made one of the worst trades of the past several years (for Tanner Jeanott). And he's interviewed for some GM jobs but hasn't been hired.

I'm not against him, but there's not enough evidence for me to root for him.

The first thing we have to go on with Darche is...He's not Bergevin or Jarmo.

The reality is that you're not going to have information on any 1st time GM.

Yet...Every GM who's been great in the history of the NHL had to have a 1st GM gig where no one knew if they'd actually be good.

I'll safely say I'll take any rookie GM with good buzz surrounding him over any proven GM who did an inept job previously. If they stink then you move on, but that's better than hiring someone you know is going to stink from day one and you'll definitely have to move on from.

I mean who do you want as next GM and/or President?

 

[SRBisles]

Why is everyone just assuming Bergevin only gets the POHO job? He would definitely get both roles IMO.

 

[periferal]

Yes, there are clues. It's not going to change the fact that there's no certainty. As I replied to Konk, every team that makes the playoffs is a Stanley Cup contender. No point trying to talk me out of that opinion as it won't change.

I mean this post is mad genius. More like Rainman-esque disturbed pretzel logic, but nevertheless...


So there is zero "certainty" in the NHL (and life), but...You will never change your mind.


Got it. Nothing else to see here. Please turn out the lights when you're done.

 

[periferal]

The media (Botta, Stapleton) as well as this board, is making the process out to be more than it is not. Patience...

If (and that's a big if) Malkin gets it right in the end, then all will be well.

However...If the reports are true that Malkin refuses to let Lou go and that refusal costs us the best possible candidates (not just at President/GM, but all the other front office/scouting hires that need to be made), well then those reporting ringing some alarms would be correct.

 

[Thrasymachus]

 

[LeapOnOver]

No one is acting like my opinion is a fact, but you're in fantasy land where all teams have an equal shot at the cup. There are clearly favorites every year, teams with a more realistic chance at winning, established by regular season accomplishments and playoff records in previous years. Teams usually don't go from missing the playoffs for several years or never having won a playoff series to winning the Cup.

Most teams that end up in the Finals have had some regular season success and/or have had some playoff success in previous years. This is especially true for most teams that end up winning the Cup every year. These are undeniable, widely accepted facts that are the "rules" to becoming a Stanley Cup contender. Carolina was clearly the exception, or else that would happen a lot more often. There's a reason why going from missing the playoffs to Cup champion is a rare accomplishment.

So you can continue pretending that a team that had never even won a playoff series and snuck into the last wildcard slot in the 2nd to last game of the season was a Cup contender, while everyone else was well aware that they were not. It only makes you look silly.

Whatever, you make the dumbest connections I'm starting to wonder why i trust your prospect ratings. Favorites doesn't mean non favorites aren't contenders. That's how you define silly. Tried to have a civil conversation with you but smartest man in the room syndrome strikes again and only MY opinion can be right, lol. Get bent.

 

[LeapOnOver]

I mean this post is mad genius. More like Rainman-esque disturbed pretzel logic, but nevertheless...


So there is zero "certainty" in the NHL (and life), but...You will never change your mind.


Got it. Nothing else to see here. Please turn out the lights when you're done.

Just read a whole lotta nothing from you. Everyone in the forum is dumber for reading that, I award you no points, and God have mercy on your soul.

 

[Throttle]

If they hired someone already, there would be complaints that they didn't investigate enough options.

Once they hire someone, the ‘search’ complaints will shift to the ‘actual GM’ complaints. It never ends.

 

[periferal]

View attachment 1034945

I never know with this gif. Looks like he's simultaneously worked up, but also relieved.

 

[Throttle]

The first thing we have to go on with Darche is...He's not Bergevin or Jarmo.

The reality is that you're not going to have information on any 1st time GM.

Yet...Every GM who's been great in the history of the NHL had to have a 1st GM gig where no one knew if they'd actually be good.

I'll safely say I'll take any rookie GM with good buzz surrounding him over any proven GM who did an inept job previously. If they stink then you move on, but that's better than hiring someone you know is going to stink from day one and you'll definitely have to move on from.

I mean who do you want as next GM and/or President?

How did Paul Fenton work out?

 

[periferal]

Once they hire someone, the ‘search’ complaints will shift to the ‘actual GM’ complaints. It never ends.

You should see the "displeased" comments the Kings are getting for hiring Holland. I think they're on point. What do you think?

 

[periferal]

How did Paul Fenton work out?

Horribly. So what's your point? That we should only hire a previous GM?

 

[seafoam]

Get Chuck Fletcher in here. Hey, at least it will be fun!

Edit: Harvard grad and lives in NJ.

 

[Konk]

any team that makes the "show" has a chance. however with that being mentioned some teams have higher odds you are correct. the same thing can be said on the flip side making it in a fav does not mean you will win. Technically at the start of the playoffs all 16 teams really do have a equal shot

They really don't, though. Statistically, it's more rare for teams in certain circumstances to reach the Finals than it is for other teams, and especially to win.

Here's an example, with Columbus' run specifically in mind, where Kekalainen went all-in on the roster. This was the argument to begin with. They had never even won a playoff series in their existence, but according to you and Leap, they had an equal chance at the Cup with all the teams that made the playoffs that year.

Let's look at teams that, prior to their championship run, had never won a single playoff series in their franchise’s history.

1. 1974 – Philadelphia Flyers
2. 1996 – Colorado Avalanche

That's it, that's the list.

Now, let's expand that a bit further to open it up a little bit more. Here's a list of finalists that, in the two or more seasons prior to their finals appearance, did not make it past the first round of the playoffs -- either losing in the first round or missing the playoffs entirely. This is since the modern era, 1970s and onward.

1. 1991 – Minnesota North Stars (Lost in Final)

1989: Missed playoffs
1990: Missed playoffs
1991: Reached Final

2. 1996 – Florida Panthers (Lost in Final)

1994 & 1995: Missed playoffs (expansion team)
1996: Reached Final in 3rd season

3. 2002 – Carolina Hurricanes (Lost in Final)

2000: Missed playoffs
2001: Missed playoffs
2002: Reached Final

4. 2006 – Edmonton Oilers (Lost in Final)

2002: Lost in 1st round
2003: Missed playoffs
2004: Missed playoffs
2005: Season canceled
2006: Reached Final

5. 2010 – Philadelphia Flyers (Lost in Final)

2008: Lost in 1st round
2009: Lost in 1st round
2010: Reached Final

6. 2012 – Los Angeles Kings (Won the Cup)

2010: Lost in 1st round
2011: Lost in 1st round
2012: Won Cup

So since the 1970s, this has only happened SIX times, and only one of those teams won the Cup.

So despite what you and Leap claim, there are statistical weights to each team, each year, based on previous accomplishments that can define their probability of success that can be used to determine their reasonable chances at winning the Cup or competing for it. Yes, there are always exceptions, like the above teams, but clearly in 2019 the Columbus Blue Jackets, based on precedent, wasn't likely to end up in the Finals competing for the Cup, let alone winning it.

 

[Throttle]

Horribly. So what's your point? That we should only hire a previous GM?

Your point is an inexperienced person is all roses and sunshine.

 

[periferal]

Your point is an inexperienced person is all roses and sunshine.

Is this a joke? You can't seriously believe I think that. I believe you're a bit newer on these boards, but why don't you go back and see what I thought of "1st time GM" Garth Snow.

And if you think I want Chris "I wouldn't have a job if I had a different last name" Lamoriello as our GM then again...You're not reading my posts correctly.

Once again I think you're coming in with your pre-convieced notions and not full digesting my points. So I'll clarify it for you again...

What I said was - Every great GM was a "1st time GM" at some point. That does NOT mean that every 1st time GM will be a good one.

And in this specific case for the Islanders I am saying is that I'd rather take a chance on someone like Darche (who everyone speaks highly of) than the "known" GMs of Bergevin and Jarmo (who failed miserably at their previous posts).

At the same time if "experienced GM" Bill Zito would come here (and Malkin would hire him) I'd take him over all of them.

Hopefully you're on the same page now.

Would also be refreshing if you shared who you would want hired.

 

[Thrasymachus]

I never know with this gif. Looks like he's simultaneously worked up, but also relieved.

To me it is relief / excited.

In case it wasn't clear... I am NOT stoked for Berg, I am stoked we avoided Holland

 

[doublechili]

I mean who do you want as next GM and/or President

If he had been available, Gorton probably would have been #1. Otherwise, I'd lean to people that have a record/reputation as player personnel/talent evaluator, at least for one of the positions. That's why out of the Holland, Bergevin, Jarmo group I'd lean to Jarmo. But for new guys, there are a ton of options: a few from FLA; ditto for DAL; Ross Mahoney from WAS; there's an AGM with ANA who's supposed to be good; and lots of others. That's not even getting into left field names like Brisson.

My main thing is to put together an effective team with expertise in all areas. And someone gets final say, but the decision process involves input from everyone. So, for example, if Jarmo is GM, others are involved in decision-making so that we get the benefit of his scouting ability but he gets lots of input and isn't running the show entirely.

 

[periferal]

If he had been available, Gorton probably would have been #1. Otherwise, I'd lean to people that have a record/reputation as player personnel/talent evaluator, at least for one of the positions. That's why out of the Holland, Bergevin, Jarmo group I'd lean to Jarmo. But for new guys, there are a ton of options: a few from FLA; ditto for DAL; Ross Mahoney from WAS; there's an AGM with ANA who's supposed to be good; and lots of others. That's not even getting into left field names like Brisson.

My main thing is to put together an effective team with expertise in all areas. And someone gets final say, but the decision process involves input from everyone. So, for example, if Jarmo is GM, others are involved in decision-making so that we get the benefit of his scouting ability but he gets lots of input and isn't running the show entirely.

I agree with most of this and totally so on having more of a "group effort" than just one "hockey dictator."

And it's why I want that previous "hockey dictator" 100% removed from the Isles, because as long as he has Malkin's ear it will not only undermine the search of putting together "an effective team with expertise in all areas," but later down the line he might convince Malkin to meddle with this new group or worse...Reinstall him as GM.