New York Islanders: Lamoriello Contract Not Renewed; John Collins Searching for Next GM

[Throttle]

Team approach/philosophy and the benefit of being the first expansion team this last round are two entirely different things.

I don't care how aggressive Bill Foley is...If the Knights had to choose from what the Kraken did (and thus other GMs not needing to trade them assets) no way they would be a Cup contender now.

The Kraken had the opportunity to make trades to build up capital as a strategy, but Francis (a very passive builder, not a trader) raised the prices too high, whether he thought team would pay it or he did it as a deterrent to actually going against his philosophy- that he wanted to build slowly.

Vegas set the blueprint on what can be done. Teams were still willing to make trades with Seattle, but Francis didn’t want to deal.

So, the philosophy is 100% driving the difference in the two teams. Elite players see that Seattle is slow building, does a Pieterangelo and Eichel say ‘I wanna go to Seattle to win?’ Nope. They went to Vegas because the owner and management set a mandate to constantly improve and win.

Does hiring Hakstol as your first coach so ‘we are going to win here?’ No, it does not.

Seattle is going the way of Columbus under Kookalienan and, well, Carolina under Francis.

 

[Islanders4Cups]

You can read the whole thing, but the big takeaway...

• George McPhee is not in the mix. He makes big money for a strong franchise in a state with no income tax and loves where he is. Can’t blame him for not interviewing.
• Patrick Roy is not going to be the next general manager of the Islanders. Still can’t rule out Patrick staying in another role.
• If Jeff Gordon talks substantively with John Collins at all, it would only be for a position that makes him the No. 1 decision-maker with autonomy.

Talk is cheap in my opinion. Much rather have someone who is proven and has done it with some successes and lessons learned than someone who comes with a plan to save the world but has no experience doing it in this league for a number of years. The front office is too complicated to handoff to a green behind the ears.

It was why Lou was a perfect hire at the time and would have been even better had he been 10 years younger.

 

[periferal]

The problem with criticizing the old boys club that is sports is that it's exactly what people want.

What "people" are you talking about? Not this "people."

Who is more qualified to coach or GM or be a president of an organization than the guys who come from organizational trees that have had success? How can people who never played the game be more experienced than someone who did? How can someone be better qualified than Wayne Gretzky for knowing the game of hockey? How do people like Lamoriello, Gretzky, Bettman, Roy, etc. not have heavy influence on people when they're vouching for each other?

I think too many owners/team presidents are either limited and/or afraid to take chances in their vision for their teams. How else can you explain how often average/poor GMs and coaches get 2nd or 3rd jobs?

I also think this leads these owners/presidents to confuse experience with success. Because how someone could hire Jarmo Kekäläinen over Mathieu Darche right now is beyond the beyond.

I'm not a person who wants the safe play here, I want someone who is going to be a bit more bold. There's a time and place for each approach and I think we're at the point where we need the latter.

Amen. LFG and get the right guy - Even if he's less experienced. Every great GM was a rookie at that job once.

 

[PK Cronin]

What "people" are you talking about? Not this "people."

I'd say casual fans or observers. We (anyone regularly posting or visiting message boards) are such a small fraction of the fanbase that the way we views things doesn't matter.

I think too many owners/team presidents are either limited and/or afraid to take chances in their vision for their teams. How else can you explain how often average/poor GMs and coaches get 2nd or 3rd jobs?

When it comes to owners there are two things that largely play into this I think. The first is that owners don't necessarily know the sport. The prerequisite for own a franchise is having access to money, not hockey knowledge. They then rely on industry experts to make decisions and that ties into retreads. The second is that owners are looking for growth from those experiences and are hopeful that the coaches or GMs will do better with their situation. Not all organizations or time periods are the same, it's fair to give knowledgeable people second or third looks at times.

The problem I have is that when you hire a guy like Tortorella to coach or Lamoriello to GM then the expectation needs to be that they'll bring what they've always brought. Those two, and many more, don't grow a whole lot. They're great to bring in when you need something very specific and once they're fulfilled that role it's best to part ways. Bruce Boudreau had a great run in Washington, and likely played a large part in the later success the team had when Trotz came in and provided something different they needed to get over the hump.

The nepotism, cronyism, etc. just makes complete sense when you think about it. If I'm hiring for a position and my friends have the same skillset as a stranger, I'm choosing my friends 90% of the time. The same thing happens in the NHL. Those wanting to break through need to work harder and show exceptional value and skill at what they do.

I also think this leads these owners/presidents to confuse experience with success. Because how someone could hire Jarmo Kekäläinen over Mathieu Darche right now is beyond the beyond.

From the outside that makes sense to me. The only thing I could see is if Jarmo is well liked by ownership for whatever reason and/or Darche isn't highly thought of despite coming from a great situation (i.e. giving credit to others over Darche for the success).

 

[periferal]

I'd say casual fans or observers. We (anyone regularly posting or visiting message boards) are such a small fraction of the fanbase that the way we views things doesn't matter.



When it comes to owners there are two things that largely play into this I think. The first is that owners don't necessarily know the sport. The prerequisite for own a franchise is having access to money, not hockey knowledge. They then rely on industry experts to make decisions and that ties into retreads. The second is that owners are looking for growth from those experiences and are hopeful that the coaches or GMs will do better with their situation. Not all organizations or time periods are the same, it's fair to give knowledgeable people second or third looks at times.

The problem I have is that when you hire a guy like Tortorella to coach or Lamoriello to GM then the expectation needs to be that they'll bring what they've always brought. Those two, and many more, don't grow a whole lot. They're great to bring in when you need something very specific and once they're fulfilled that role it's best to part ways. Bruce Boudreau had a great run in Washington, and likely played a large part in the later success the team had when Trotz came in and provided something different they needed to get over the hump.

The nepotism, cronyism, etc. just makes complete sense when you think about it. If I'm hiring for a position and my friends have the same skillset as a stranger, I'm choosing my friends 90% of the time. The same thing happens in the NHL. Those wanting to break through need to work harder and show exceptional value and skill at what they do.

Agree in total.

From the outside that makes sense to me. The only thing I could see is if Jarmo is well liked by ownership for whatever reason and/or Darche isn't highly thought of despite coming from a great situation (i.e. giving credit to others over Darche for the success).

I'm not saying that Darche will be a success. He might totally flop, but...We haven't seen what he can do yet. And I'll take a chance on the unknown if the known is Jarmo.

 

[Kevin27nyi]

That video of Darche was great. He outlined a lot of things I like on going for it, player fits, agent talk and also mentioned about being a broker for trades. Always felt like we could have picked up an extra third or fourth some years and who wouldn’t want that? It was a small criticism I had of Lou

 

[Kevin27nyi]

Also for coaching, give me Todd Nelson.

 

[PK Cronin]

I'm not saying that Darche will be a success. He might totally flop, but...We haven't seen what he can do yet. And I'll take a chance on the unknown if the known is Jarmo.

I'm on board for sure.

 

[Rehabguy]

If you get your wish and Roy becomes GM, and he hires a new coach and makes a few roster changes and makes the conference finals next year, will he have done that with Lou's roster?

Absolutely. If Roy takes Lou’s current roster and maybe swaps out only 3 players of the active 30 players and makes it to the conference finals you give Lou a lot of credit for building that roster just as we need to recognize Snow for constructing that roster that made it to the ECF twice.

Now if Roy was made GM it is unlikely that he would keep the same roster that Lou meddled with as he made it very clear he was not very happy with “ the roster Lou gave” him. So it’s clear he would make changes and I believe he would make the changes we all want.

 

[Rehabguy]

He’s ignoring how rare a player with Barzal’s puck possession and speed are. If they find talent to put with him, he’s not stuck relying on no one to make stuff happen. Horvat was a step in the right direction but the team needs 2-4 more quality pieces up front with the rest of the current forwards to really make it work.

Can’t believe people are still arguing that Barzal is a detriment to this teams success. He’ll get the puck onto players sticks in great scoring position. He can’t simultaneously assist and score at the same time. This team needs finishers. Eberle was one of those finishers but Lou exposes him to the expansion team. Ridiculous! Horvat is a step in the right direction but the team needs more finishers.

 

[MJF]

Horvat is a step in the right direction but the team needs more finishers.

 

[seafoam]

I Want Every GM Candidate That Interviews With My New York Islanders To Publicly Post A Video As To Why They Think They Are The Right Candidate For The Job.

 

[Throttle]

Can’t believe people are still arguing that Barzal is a detriment to this teams success. He’ll get the puck onto players sticks in great scoring position. He can’t simultaneously assist and score at the same time. This team needs finishers. Eberle was one of those finishers but Lou exposes him to the expansion team. Ridiculous! Horvat is a step in the right direction but the team needs more finishers.

Probably bc Eberle didn’t deliver in the playoffs…

 

[doublechili]

You can read the whole thing, but the big takeaway...

• George McPhee is not in the mix. He makes big money for a strong franchise in a state with no income tax and loves where he is. Can’t blame him for not interviewing.
• Patrick Roy is not going to be the next general manager of the Islanders. Still can’t rule out Patrick staying in another role.
• If Jeff Gordon talks substantively with John Collins at all, it would only be for a position that makes him the No. 1 decision-maker with autonomy.

That's probably the most Botta material that I've agreed with in a long time. My takeaway from what he wrote is that we shouldn't pick favorites because we're not in the interviews and don't know what the candidates (or the people giving input to Malkin) are saying.

I like getting any info, but what Botta said about McPhee, Roy and Gorton can be educated guesses (which I agree with) as much as hard info. McPhee is 67, so does he really want to leave a great situation in VGK? Gorton is 57, so maybe a bit more likely to have an itch to be a GM, but probably still a longshot. And re: Roy, most new GMs want to pick their own coach, let alone keep one who seems to be a bit of a loose cannon and has expressed GM aspirations in the past.

 

[mm11]

one thing about Jarmo Kekäläinen i have noticed, building teams for a small non demand market he sure made moves and had onions for pretty risky ones. Also, he was the guy who somehow woowed Johnny Hockey to play in Columbus.

 

[LeapOnOver]

If the Isles win the lottery and take Hagens at 1 I will be pretty annoyed. If they win the lottery and trade down to 4 + 24 + 25 and take Hagens there I think I will be less annoyed but still unhappy. Only way it makes sense is to trade up for him, and with the possible names available at 10 I'm not even sure that makes sense

That's a more likely scenario anyway, considering the odds to pick 1. I thought there were only a certain amount of places a team could move up anyway, but I could be wrong I guess.

 

[impaaaaaact]

That's a more likely scenario anyway, considering the odds to pick 1. I thought there were only a certain amount of places a team could move up anyway, but I could be wrong I guess.

I think that if you win the lottery you move up 10 spaces - for us that puts us at #1.

 

[doublechili]

one thing about Jarmo Kekäläinen i have noticed, building teams for a small non demand market he sure made moves and had onions for pretty risky ones. Also, he was the guy who somehow woowed Johnny Hockey to play in Columbus.

I'm not advocating for Kekelainen, but he had a good track record as a drafter/personnel guy in StL, and he drafted pretty well with CBJ from what I've seen. He had some guys leave or refuse to re-sign in Columbus, but not sure that's his fault or the franchise's situation. For example, he shocked everyone by passing on Poolparty and drafting PLD instead (turned out to be a good move), but then PLD forced a trade that was not good for CBJ. Similarly, CBJ made a great trade for Panarin only to have him leave via UFA.

 

[Rehabguy]

View attachment 1025175

Of course I think so! But a little too late Louie. So sayonara grandpa!

 

[Throttle]

I'm not advocating for Kekelainen, but he had a good track record as a drafter/personnel guy in StL, and he drafted pretty well with CBJ from what I've seen. He had some guys leave or refuse to re-sign in Columbus, but not sure that's his fault or the franchise's situation. For example, he shocked everyone by passing on Poolparty and drafting PLD instead (turned out to be a good move), but then PLD forced a trade that was not good for CBJ. Similarly, CBJ made a great trade for Panarin only to have him leave via UFA.

He was also known as a guy that would draw a hard line in contract negotiations, which deterred players from resigning.

 

[Throttle]

one thing about Jarmo Kekäläinen i have noticed, building teams for a small non demand market he sure made moves and had onions for pretty risky ones. Also, he was the guy who somehow woowed Johnny Hockey to play in Columbus.

Johnny trademarks agent played the market so badly they called CLB on day 2 of UFA looking for a home. CLB just picked up the phone.

 

[YearlyLottery]

He was also known as a guy that would draw a hard line in contract negotiations, which deterred players from resigning.

This wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. This is the same GM who once Panarin/Bob decided to leave he went all in acquiring Duchene right? I think that was his only major mistake because he could have gotten a ton of assets for Planarian/Bob instead of losing in round 2.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Johnny trademarks agent played the market so badly they called CLB on day 2 of UFA looking for a home. CLB just picked up the phone.

I thought it was because nobody wanted Gudbranson and Johnny demanded a package deal. They had to sign that bum to get Johnny.

 

[LeapOnOver]

This wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. This is the same GM who once Panarin/Bob decided to leave he went all in acquiring Duchene right? I think that was his only major mistake because he could have gotten a ton of assets for Planarian/Bob instead of losing in round 2.

I still actually appreciated the balls on him for this. I mean, they had the pieces in place to go on a run there.

 

[YearlyLottery]

I still actually appreciated the balls on him for this. I mean, they had the pieces in place to go on a run there.

This is a fair thought process but it put the Jackets in a terrible position right after that they still have not recovered from.