Speculation: Lalonde

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

A coach telling players to play a certain style wherein some players do not prefer that style is far from unique to Tortorella. He's not really different from most coaches in that respect (glances towards Lalonde). And let's not exaggerate by describing his philosophy as simply deploying 4 checking lines lol.

The narrative that most players don't like Torts is generally driven by a media that has an axe to grind with him because he has no patience for them and their egos can't handle it. And it's not true.

Tortorella: In the Words of His Players - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More



Torts is hard but fair. Many players over the years have described him as exactly that. And hockey players, by their nature as high-level athletes, generally respond favorably to that. Not every player is going to love him of course, but most buy-in. Again, within the pro hockey world, you will find the words that praise Torts amongst players and coaches far outweigh any actual criticism.

Mostly, I just think a bit of the red ass coach is something helpful when you've got a winning team and guys who think they know better who need a jackass to whack their backsides. Like Scotty for the 90s. He had all of the cache to bench/demote Fedorov, actually threaten trading Yzerman and it could have legs, etc. Or even Babs with Tatar. Tatar came out after one of his 27 goal seasons and said "Babs is a red ass, but I'm a better hockey player because of him". While Babs took that too far, there is a place in the league for tough coaches.

However, I don't believe that place is on a roster like Detroit's with a bunch of plugs, a couple very good young players, and several more even younger players on the horizon. They need a mentor-type coach not a guy that would ride them like a rented mule and have his message be burnt out in a couple years. For the redass coach to make a difference you either have to have a completely unruly team that needs to get their asses kicked and put in line OR you need a bunch of guys on the precipice of greatness that need someone to hold them accountable.

Torts is basically all gas, no brakes, on riding players.

 

[kook10]

Mostly, I just think a bit of the red ass coach is something helpful when you've got a winning team and guys who think they know better who need a jackass to whack their backsides. Like Scotty for the 90s. He had all of the cache to bench/demote Fedorov, actually threaten trading Yzerman and it could have legs, etc. Or even Babs with Tatar. Tatar came out after one of his 27 goal seasons and said "Babs is a red ass, but I'm a better hockey player because of him". While Babs took that too far, there is a place in the league for tough coaches.

However, I don't believe that place is on a roster like Detroit's with a bunch of plugs, a couple very good young players, and several more even younger players on the horizon. They need a mentor-type coach not a guy that would ride them like a rented mule and have his message be burnt out in a couple years. For the redass coach to make a difference you either have to have a completely unruly team that needs to get their asses kicked and put in line OR you need a bunch of guys on the precipice of greatness that need someone to hold them accountable.

Torts is basically all gas, no brakes, on riding players.

ehh...I am not the biggest Torts fan, but I do think riding some of the guys would do some good. To me, the soft approach seems to manifest in the consistent lack of intensity from the squad.

We don't have the talent to play a pure smart controlled game. Rarely have we seen our guys outwork or outskate other teams. How many times have you seen them come out of the locker room on fire? Like the old adage goes - the one thing you can control is effort. And if it works, we might have a hope at getting some role players to have trade value that exceeds their contracts and start to move up in the world.

 

[SirloinUB]

I'm not sure if a coaching change is required but this team needs to try to make plays. You cannot win when you spend half a game chipping the puck off the glass into the neutral zone/dumping it in to the offensive zone.

When Paul Coffey took on an assistant coaching role with the oilers this was his messaging to everyone of his Dmen, "make plays". He pointed out that every one of his D including guys like Vinnie Deshernais are in the top 1% of players and are capable of making plays.

Maybe this team still fails but ultimately Id rather try and fail than continue playing the way they have played.

I am in favor of whatever coach, Lalonde or otherwise, that will start to bringing this mindset to the organization.

 

[13to40]

I am not at all a Lalonde fan, nor do I think he will be the coach at hand when this team next lifts the cup, but I don’t think it’s time to fire him yet.

Our special team play needs big improvements and I think we’ll be able to squeeze into the playoffs for the first time in ages.

Was nice to see #77 and #53 play against 2 of the best players in the world last night. Very important minutes in both their developments. This will be their position on the team for years to come.

The team’s record after the first 10 games are more or less what was expected to be. A win on the 10th game of the season and I think it’s been a good first 10 game stretch. Lots of roster adjustments. I think the next 10 game stretch will really dictate and show where this team will end up come April.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

The torch that some of you carry for John Tortorella is so nauseating.

Any time anyone talks about the Red Wings head coaching position, someone has to bring this guy up. He isn't hockey coaching Jesus folks. Flyers suck worse than Wings right now.

I propose an automatic ban for anyone who brings up the current Flyers head coach to be coach of the Red Wings.

If your knowledge of NHL coaches was limited to what you read on this board, you would think Torts and Gallant were the only coaches in the league.

 

[jaster]

Mostly, I just think a bit of the red ass coach is something helpful when you've got a winning team and guys who think they know better who need a jackass to whack their backsides. Like Scotty for the 90s. He had all of the cache to bench/demote Fedorov, actually threaten trading Yzerman and it could have legs, etc. Or even Babs with Tatar. Tatar came out after one of his 27 goal seasons and said "Babs is a red ass, but I'm a better hockey player because of him". While Babs took that too far, there is a place in the league for tough coaches.

However, I don't believe that place is on a roster like Detroit's with a bunch of plugs, a couple very good young players, and several more even younger players on the horizon. They need a mentor-type coach not a guy that would ride them like a rented mule and have his message be burnt out in a couple years. For the redass coach to make a difference you either have to have a completely unruly team that needs to get their asses kicked and put in line OR you need a bunch of guys on the precipice of greatness that need someone to hold them accountable.

Torts is basically all gas, no brakes, on riding players.

I'm not advocating for Torts to be the Wings next coach, I'm just rebutting the falsehood that players don't like playing for Torts or that he's not a good motivator. I'd also disagree that he's a relic the league doesn't need anymore. When I think of relics the league doesn't need anymore, I'm thinking Babcock and Quenneville. A guy who demands accountability and whom the players like I still have time for.

In terms of timing, I generally agree with you. I think if there was a time recently where Torts would have been good in Detroit, it has passed. That said, I also wouldn't want a pure mentor. Accountability is important with a young group. If there is a version of Torts out there, but with less overt fire and intensity, I'm for it. Next season anyway. I don't think firing Lalonde right now is appropriate.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1849484991274619384

Are we doing this in practice? If so do it more

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

The utter lack of offense is on Lalonde. They need a new coach who plays more of a forechecking style game.

Like the idea that you're going to play dump and chase with Alex Debrincat, Lucas Raymond, Patrick Kane, Vladimir Tarasenko, and Jonatan Berggren as a huge chunk of your forward group is actually kind of funny. What hubris. Sometimes you have to take what is given and not just try to force the round peg into the square hole.

 

[Geezer WC]

I

A coach telling players to play a certain style wherein some players do not prefer that style is far from unique to Tortorella. He's not really different from most coaches in that respect (glances towards Lalonde). And let's not exaggerate by describing his philosophy as simply deploying 4 checking lines lol.

The narrative that most players don't like Torts is generally driven by a media that has an axe to grind with him because he has no patience for them and their egos can't handle it. And it's not true.

Tortorella: In the Words of His Players - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More



Torts is hard but fair. Many players over the years have described him as exactly that. And hockey players, by their nature as high-level athletes, generally respond favorably to that. Not every player is going to love him of course, but most buy-in. Again, within the pro hockey world, you will find the words that praise Torts amongst players and coaches far outweigh any actual criticism.

I would agree that players respect a coach who will tell you to your face that he is going to bleep you as opposed to some weasel who will stab you in the back. I can also see how "Great you blocked that shot with your face, Now go out and do it again" can wear on some guys after a while.

 

[Oddbob]

The utter lack of offense is on Lalonde. They need a new coach who plays more of a forechecking style game.

Like the idea that you're going to play dump and chase with Alex Debrincat, Lucas Raymond, Patrick Kane, Vladimir Tarasenko, and Jonatan Berggren as a huge chunk of your forward group is actually kind of funny. What hubris. Sometimes you have to take what is given and not just try to force the round peg into the square hole.

Kind of like bringing in Paul Coffey to play trap hockey.

 

[norrisnick]

Torts is hard but fair unless he doesn't like you then it doesn't matter.

 

[Oddbob]

Torts is hard but fair unless he doesn't like you then it doesn't matter.

Like that Brooksie guy, he never got any playing time.

 

[jaster]

Torts is hard but fair unless he doesn't like you then it doesn't matter.

If he doesn't like you, it's for fair reasons.

 

[ricky0034]

I don't even want Torts here but it always weirds me out how much some people hate him

 

[jkutswings]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1849484991274619384

Are we doing this in practice? If so do it more

Who gets Kane?

 

[norrisnick]

If he doesn't like you, it's for fair reasons.

Like making a move on a defender as opposed to dumping it in.

 

[raymond23]

Last year we were 9th in the league in goals for and 24th in goals against so I have a hard time trusting the narrative that Lalonde is stifling our offense

I'm also not so sure that Lalonde is implementing a "shell" system halfway through the game

Outside of the top line and pair, this roster is slow and not very good and it shows when other teams start to become more desperate

We can ask Ben Chiarot, Jeff Petry, Oli Maatta, etc to try and move the puck cleanly but I'm not very confident they can

Lalonde is the least inspiring coach I've ever witnessed but the problems start and end with the roster he was given

I HATE being an apologist but 4-4-1, given the roster and schedule, is about as much as you can ask from a coach

 

[FlyguyOX]

Like making a move on a defender as opposed to dumping it in.

Nope. He only hates players who don't give a rats ass or give it their all. Which I'm in favor of...

 

[norrisnick]

Nope. He only hates players who don't give a rats ass or give it their all. Which I'm in favor of...

Which is code for he only hates players that aren't wired exactly the same way he is. Watson struggled with Ed and how calm he is. Torts wouldn't be able to handle it.

 

[Sadekuuro]

Who gets Kane?

Berggren

 

[RedHawkDown]

Last year we were 9th in the league in goals for and 24th in goals against so I have a hard time trusting the narrative that Lalonde is stifling our offense

I'm also not so sure that Lalonde is implementing a "shell" system halfway through the game

Outside of the top line and pair, this roster is slow and not very good and it shows when other teams start to become more desperate

We can ask Ben Chiarot, Jeff Petry, Oli Maatta, etc to try and move the puck cleanly but I'm not very confident they can

Lalonde is the least inspiring coach I've ever witnessed but the problems start and end with the roster he was given

I HATE being an apologist but 4-4-1, given the roster and schedule, is about as much as you can ask from a coach

We were 9th in the league in goals for because of very high shooting percentage that won't happen again this year.

We were ineffective at consistently generating offense last year too. Lalonde is not a good coach.