Speculation: LAK 23/24 Bold Predictions

[Kudelski37]

Wingers rarely drop that deep in our system, they are generally above the dot or on the wall. Our centers routinely go behind the net and drop below the dots.

It's not a big thing, but Gabe struggled with all that skating. He has never been quick enough to be a defensive support player, but handling opposing defensemen along the high wall he can do.

So do the wingers.

 

[AbsentMojo]

After mediocre starts, Byfield and Kaliyev both end up in the A for stretches to give Laf and Turcotte some looks

 

[Statto]

The gamble with this trade was always Vilardi’s health.

If last year was his new normal, and he stays healthy for 60+ games, the trade is a massive loss in raw production (though we can debate the value of wingers for center).

If Gabe continues to struggle with injuries, either major or minor, it’s likely a net win for us in the long run.

Trades like this need to be viewed with the bigger picture in mind. If PLD allows us to put out 3 balanced scoring lines that all carry a threat & If we go deep into playoffs it doesn’t really matter how Vilardi does. You have to look at how the trade affects the team.

To be clear I hate losing Vilardi and I’m still pissed at losing him.

 

[Fishhead]

So do the wingers.

Well, I rarely see them do it. When they are pinned in, sure, but generally they head to the high wall. to cover the point. It's the main reason they've actually been scoring goals lately. Fiala, Moore, Kempe, etc. are almost always high.

 

[Fishhead]

Trades like this need to be viewed with the bigger picture in mind. If PLD allows us to put out 3 balanced scoring lines that all carry a threat & If we go deep into playoffs it doesn’t really matter how Vilardi does. You have to look at how the trade affects the team.

To be clear I hate losing Vilardi and I’m still pissed at losing him.

I feel exactly the same way. Losing Vilardi sucked.

But you could already see it last night. Yeah, it was not only the Ducks, but their mostly minor league squad. But it completely changed things. The Kopitar line was out sync, but one having an off night doesn't really matter. Heck, even the top two lines could be totally off and the Danault line can pick up the slack. It's just too much to handle for most teams. It's near impossible to not expose a lower line or the 3rd pairing to one of our groups many times over the course of a game.

I think it will alter the playstyle of the 4th line as well. The lack of hitting was a sore spot last year, but we were in a lot of tight games last year. With 3 true scoring lines, there isn't as much pressure on them to actually produce and they can play a simpler game. If the PK doesn't completely suck I bet you see a lot more liberties taken than last year.

 

[Kudelski37]

Well, I rarely see them do it. When they are pinned in, sure, but generally they head to the high wall. to cover the point. It's the main reason they've actually been scoring goals lately. Fiala, Moore, Kempe, etc. are almost always high.

I haven't watched for it during the preseason, but I remember Kempe and Byfield regularly beating Kopitar into the defensive zone with one, often Byfield, being the low option to start the breakout around the goal line.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Trades like this need to be viewed with the bigger picture in mind. If PLD allows us to put out 3 balanced scoring lines that all carry a threat & If we go deep into playoffs it doesn’t really matter how Vilardi does. You have to look at how the trade affects the team.

To be clear I hate losing Vilardi and I’m still pissed at losing him.

But that's the issue with with it.

"If."

Hope is the strategy. Again.

 

[Fishhead]

But that's the issue with with it.

"If."

Hope is the strategy. Again.

There are never absolutes, but I don't think it's much of an if. The underrating of PLD is insane around here, it's like a lot of folks haven't seen him play. He's a big, playmaking center who can still approach 30 goals, plays on the edge and is borderline dirty. His cap hit is high but he's what most around here have been clamoring for. We all notice the amount of smaller, skilled forward types we have, he's a big departure.

I expect a somewhat slow start, maybe not as bad as when he was traded to the Jets as there isn't as much drama going on. But he'll be as much of a revelation as Fiala was.

My only real concern was attitude, but that doesn't seem an issue. We'll see what happens when he hits a little adversity. It's not like there haven't been similar situations in Columbus or Winnipeg before.

 

[Sol]

Trades like this need to be viewed with the bigger picture in mind. If PLD allows us to put out 3 balanced scoring lines that all carry a threat & If we go deep into playoffs it doesn’t really matter how Vilardi does. You have to look at how the trade affects the team.

To be clear I hate losing Vilardi and I’m still pissed at losing him.

I think that an issue with all of that you could have had three lines with scoring potential if they played Byfield at center and he did somewhat well. I don’t think the trade is good given context.

There are never absolutes, but I don't think it's much of an if. The underrating of PLD is insane around here, it's like a lot of folks haven't seen him play. He's a big, playmaking center who can still approach 30 goals, plays on the edge and is borderline dirty. His cap hit is high but he's what most around here have been clamoring for. We all notice the amount of smaller, skilled forward types we have, he's a big departure.

I expect a somewhat slow start, maybe not as bad as when he was traded to the Jets as there isn't as much drama going on. But he'll be as much of a revelation as Fiala was.

My only real concern was attitude, but that doesn't seem an issue. We'll see what happens when he hits a little adversity. It's not like there haven't been similar situations in Columbus or Winnipeg before.

I think it’s kinda weird that you talk about PLDs production and ignore the role he had on the previous team vs the role he has now. It’s not going to translate as seamlessly as you make it out to be. Vilardi was no slouch either. Vilardi had 41 points in 63 games last season. If you want to make the production vs production argument. I personally would have much preferred them to send Byfield for PLD. Having a Vilardi PLD Fiala line would kill teams. But hey Byfield has that weird “he’s only highly rated because of draft status” value around him.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

There are never absolutes, but I don't think it's much of an if. The underrating of PLD is insane around here, it's like a lot of folks haven't seen him play. He's a big, playmaking center who can still approach 30 goals, plays on the edge and is borderline dirty. His cap hit is high but he's what most around here have been clamoring for. We all notice the amount of smaller, skilled forward types we have, he's a big departure.

I expect a somewhat slow start, maybe not as bad as when he was traded to the Jets as there isn't as much drama going on. But he'll be as much of a revelation as Fiala was.

My only real concern was attitude, but that doesn't seem an issue. We'll see what happens when he hits a little adversity. It's not like there haven't been similar situations in Columbus or Winnipeg before.

To be so critical of me for suggesting Vilardi's production potential is high and to come back and call PLD a 'playmaking center' with a career high of 36 assists despite playing with a 47-goal scorer...

No offense intended but this is an incredibly rosy view of this organization, suggesting the outgoing isn't a big deal BUT CHECK OUT THE INCOMING as if there are no questionmarks and the guy who was bullying TO in the playoffs is the same guy that has showed up every night.

I'd love it to pan out, but you can't pretend there aren't question marks here, particularly if you're going to pick apart my optimism on Vilardi. The reasons Vilardi were available are the same as PLD--health, consistency, attitude.

He seems to really like it here so far on that plus side, and he's got a playoff team and a PPG winger with little responsibility. If we DONT get a near-PPG player and major force out of it, it will be a f***ing disaster. This isn't an 'oh well at least he got 60 points' sort of move. This is a franchise facelift for better or for worse. Let's not beat around the bush here, the hedging is kind of weak for the attitude of 'come on, really?' you gave me re: Vilardi

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

To be so critical of me for suggesting Vilardi's production potential is high and to come back and call PLD a 'playmaking center' with a career high of 36 assists despite playing with a 47-goal scorer...

No offense intended but this is an incredibly rosy view of this organization, suggesting the outgoing isn't a big deal BUT CHECK OUT THE INCOMING as if there are no questionmarks and the guy who was bullying TO in the playoffs is the same guy that has showed up every night.

I'd love it to pan out, but you can't pretend there aren't question marks here, particularly if you're going to pick apart my optimism on Vilardi. The reasons Vilardi were available are the same as PLD--health, consistency, attitude.

He seems to really like it here so far on that plus side, and he's got a playoff team and a PPG winger with little responsibility. If we DONT get a near-PPG player and major force out of it, it will be a f***ing disaster. This isn't an 'oh well at least he got 60 points' sort of move. This is a franchise facelift for better or for worse. Let's not beat around the bush here, the hedging is kind of chickenshit for the attitude of 'come on, really?' you gave me re: Vilardi.

While the assists may not reflect it, it sure seems like PLD is great at setting up teammates for quality chances: What does Pierre-Luc Dubois have to offer to his next prospective team?

In particular, Dubois excelled at setting up his teammates for high-percentage opportunities, completing 1.93 slot passes per 20 at 5-on-5 (12th among qualified forwards).

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

While the assists may not reflect it, it sure seems like PLD is great at setting up teammates for quality chances: What does Pierre-Luc Dubois have to offer to his next prospective team?

Sure. There's high POSSIBLE upside there.

Just like there is with Vilardi.

I'm only calling out the pessimism/"yeah right" towards the departing asset and optimism/certainty towards the incoming asset.

"IF" was apparently a phrase we don't dare utter.

 

[Kudelski37]

There are never absolutes, but I don't think it's much of an if. The underrating of PLD is insane around here, it's like a lot of folks haven't seen him play. He's a big, playmaking center who can still approach 30 goals, plays on the edge and is borderline dirty. His cap hit is high but he's what most around here have been clamoring for. We all notice the amount of smaller, skilled forward types we have, he's a big departure.

I expect a somewhat slow start, maybe not as bad as when he was traded to the Jets as there isn't as much drama going on. But he'll be as much of a revelation as Fiala was.

My only real concern was attitude, but that doesn't seem an issue. We'll see what happens when he hits a little adversity. It's not like there haven't been similar situations in Columbus or Winnipeg before.

Kings and Jets fan have openly wondered if Vilardi will outscore PLD.

When Doughty qualified his praise of PLD by saying he is pretty good...when he is pissed off, leaves a little to be desired.

The fact the organization put out a puff piece saying he is doing just what we wanted while training camp is going on turns on the blaring sirens that they might already recognize the mistake and are trying to get ahead of it. See fans, this kind of play is just what we wanted. Don't let your lying eyes tell you there is anything wrong.

 

[Sol]

Do people seriously not realize that Vilardi was not only a really good player but he was on the upswing too considering his age? PLD has a lot to prove to make that trade justifiable. There’s a reason why jets fans are already like him.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

Sure. There's high POSSIBLE upside there.

Just like there is with Vilardi.

I'm only calling out the pessimism/"yeah right" towards the departing asset and optimism/certainty towards the incoming asset.

"IF" was apparently a phrase we don't dare utter.

That's not "high POSSIBLE upside," though. Those are tangible actions that he took to create those chances.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

That's not "high POSSIBLE upside," though. Those are tangible actions that he took to create those chances.

I'm not going to jump for joy at 'slot passes per 20' without data showing who else strikes high there for one and yes, that's high POSSIBLE upside given he was playing with a near-50 goal scorer and those still weren't converting into raw ACTUAL production, if he was a playmaking center of high caliber he'd be racking those up more than Danault does.

 

[yankeeking]

Really sad losing GV his hands and vision are elite and a few of those goals in front of the net were spectacular, our seats were on the goal line we shoot twice at, but his skating was just a hair slow which was talked about when they moved him to wing and that just didn’t match up well with oilers or Vegas , if they didn’t do something we were just going on hope of improvement
and that’s not a real plan , most of us don’t like this particular trade and really unhappy with BLUC and his development team over all but we now have arguably the best center depth , and have a very good defense..2/3 of what makes a contender and IMO we are better today than last April

 

[Fishhead]

To be so critical of me for suggesting Vilardi's production potential is high and to come back and call PLD a 'playmaking center' with a career high of 36 assists despite playing with a 47-goal scorer...

No offense intended but this is an incredibly rosy view of this organization, suggesting the outgoing isn't a big deal BUT CHECK OUT THE INCOMING as if there are no questionmarks and the guy who was bullying TO in the playoffs is the same guy that has showed up every night.

I'd love it to pan out, but you can't pretend there aren't question marks here, particularly if you're going to pick apart my optimism on Vilardi. The reasons Vilardi were available are the same as PLD--health, consistency, attitude.

He seems to really like it here so far on that plus side, and he's got a playoff team and a PPG winger with little responsibility. If we DONT get a near-PPG player and major force out of it, it will be a f***ing disaster. This isn't an 'oh well at least he got 60 points' sort of move. This is a franchise facelift for better or for worse. Let's not beat around the bush here, the hedging is kind of weak for the attitude of 'come on, really?' you gave me re: Vilardi

Wasn't being critical at all, just looking at it from a different point of view. Sorry if it seemed that way. You know I like Vilardi as much as you do. And it wasn't pointed at you, I see a lot of posts where its suggested that PLD is gonna hit 50 or stuff like that, while Vilardi is tearing it up, and it's just to get riled up over god knows what. Sure it could happen, but if you were forced to bet on it, who would you choose to hit 70 points? Vilardi or PLD? Love for Vilardi aside I'd take PLD every time.

PLD style is mostly that of a playmaking center, but maybe that's not the best descriptor. His game has always been opening up the ice for others and heading to the net. Not talking about assists in particular, and he does play wing from time to time. Trying to think how I would describe Kopitar, he's in that similar mold. He's a little more towards the scoring part. If all-around center is a better descriptor, use that. Either way, we bemoan our lack of size up front and at least we finally got one bigger.

I don't get into the outgoing/ingoing thing, really. Vilardi is for sure the better value, that part sucks. And I'm not saying losing him isn't a big deal, and I certainly wouldn't call my view of the organization as rosy. I'm probably just non-reactionary and analytical, so I am far more likely to look at past production and trends and not automatically assume the worst will happen. No move is ever going to make me flip out, I try to breathe and look at all the variables before posting . It probably helps that I'm ambivalent towards Blake or TM, and if they don't get some results this year it won't bother me in the slightest when/if they are canned. Neither of them inspire me, nor do they piss me off a lot.

The Kings are trying to win a cup now, regardless of whether we all agree their methods are the best. To me it boils down to this - which roster gives us a better chance at that right now.

Kopitar-Kempe-Byfield
Fiala-PLD-Kaliyev
Moore-Danault-Arvidsson
Grundstrom-Lizotte-Lewis

or

Kempe-Kopitar-Byfield
Moore-Danault-Arvidsson
Vilardi-Lizotte-Fiala
Grundstrom-Lewis-Kaliyev

I'm sure some disagree, but I think it's the first by a mile. I try to look at it from the opposing team's view, and that first one scares me, while the second does not. We always joke about everyone being a center, but we really had too many wingers and not enough quality down the middle.

This team has zero problems up front, and barely any on defense. The glaring hole is in goal, obviously. Address that and this team is a rough matchup for anyone in the playoffs, especially as benches are shortened.

 

[Fishhead]

Kings and Jets fan have openly wondered if Vilardi will outscore PLD.

When Doughty qualified his praise of PLD by saying he is pretty good...when he is pissed off, leaves a little to be desired.

The fact the organization put out a puff piece saying he is doing just what we wanted while training camp is going on turns on the blaring sirens that they might already recognize the mistake and are trying to get ahead of it. See fans, this kind of play is just what we wanted. Don't let your lying eyes tell you there is anything wrong.

Jets fans are pissed off at him in general because he didn't want to be there, what do you expect them to say?

This just seems reactionary to me, PLD hasn't even played a game that counts for us yet. Nor has he looked bad. Now that he's had a bit of time he did look pretty damn good last night. Walked a few guys, powered to the front, made some fantastic feeds. Do you really think the goal of the organization is to fool its fans or try to pull the wool over their eyes? Sounds almost like conspiracy theory.

 

[SimpleJack]

IMO the SCF this season gonna be Kings vs Devils. I really like the overall quality of your guys roster. Almost zero weakness. The time is now to contend, rebuild just about complete. If PLD has a big year and Clarke takes that next step forward in development holding down a starting role on the blue line then LOOK OUT.

 

[Fishhead]

Do people seriously not realize that Vilardi was not only a really good player but he was on the upswing too considering his age? PLD has a lot to prove to make that trade justifiable. There’s a reason why jets fans are already like him.

I think both of those things. Fantastic player on the upswing. He was on pace for 53 points last year and if he stays healthy will improve on that.

Now imagine that Vilardi had 60 points last year with 28 goals, I doubt we trade him. That's where Dubois was when he was Vilardi's age 2 years ago. It's not like PLD is some old man, he's also on the upswing considering his age, he's only one year older.

And as much as I like Vilardi, PLD has proven a lot more than Gabe has. He's played 434 games and only missed 32. He's got 129 goals and over 300 points. He's got 50 more goals than Vilardi has points, and he's one year older. I know damn well a lot of that is because of his back injury, and while fighting through that adversity is endearing, it's also an inherent risk.

One can still think Gabe is a fantastic player who is going to get better and still recognize that PLD is an amazing talent with a higher baseline and just as much room to grow. One area PLD is never going to reach Gabe's status is being a fan favorite, I think. The way Gabe fought through that injury, proved a lot of folks wrong, and the way he plays the game with true joy is inspiring.

 

[Herby]

I think both of those things. Fantastic player on the upswing. He was on pace for 53 points last year and if he stays healthy will improve on that.

Now imagine that Vilardi had 60 points last year with 28 goals, I doubt we trade him. That's where Dubois was when he was Vilardi's age 2 years ago. It's not like PLD is some old man, he's also on the upswing considering his age, he's only one year older.

And as much as I like Vilardi, PLD has proven a lot more than Gabe has. He's played 434 games and only missed 32. He's got 129 goals and over 300 points. He's got 50 more goals than Vilardi has points, and he's one year older. I know damn well a lot of that is because of his back injury, and while fighting through that adversity is endearing, it's also an inherent risk.

One can still think Gabe is a fantastic player who is going to get better and still recognize that PLD is an amazing talent with a higher baseline and just as much room to grow. One area PLD is never going to reach Gabe's status is being a fan favorite, I think. The way Gabe fought through that injury, proved a lot of folks wrong, and the way he plays the game with true joy is inspiring.

A year on Jupiter is almost 12 years on Earth. I am convinced that many people are using Jupiter years when they discuss the age difference between a player born in June of 1998 and one born 14 months later in August 1999.

 

[King'sPawn]

I think both of those things. Fantastic player on the upswing. He was on pace for 53 points last year and if he stays healthy will improve on that.

Now imagine that Vilardi had 60 points last year with 28 goals, I doubt we trade him. That's where Dubois was when he was Vilardi's age 2 years ago. It's not like PLD is some old man, he's also on the upswing considering his age, he's only one year older.

And as much as I like Vilardi, PLD has proven a lot more than Gabe has. He's played 434 games and only missed 32. He's got 129 goals and over 300 points. He's got 50 more goals than Vilardi has points, and he's one year older. I know damn well a lot of that is because of his back injury, and while fighting through that adversity is endearing, it's also an inherent risk.

One can still think Gabe is a fantastic player who is going to get better and still recognize that PLD is an amazing talent with a higher baseline and just as much room to grow.

PLD has plateaued since he's been a 60-point forward though. How much better do you expect he'll get, when he was getting favorable offensive deployments already?

Vilardi, recovering from injury, playing a full season, and getting less favorable ice time and talent around him, just started to show what he was capable of.

PLD was where Vilardi is two years ago. And that's what he still is two years later.

Defenders of the trade keep speaking in abstracts as far as how he helps the team up the middle, but fail to give credit to the wing depth the Kings suddenly had. And there's a fair argument that Vilardi alone will outscore PLD, nevermind what Kupari and Iafallo contributed. So, how much better does it make the team?

Would they have all fit in the cap? Well, they would have fit under the cap better than PLD this year. His cap hit is 8.5. Iafallo (4.0) + Vilardi (3.44) + Kupari (1.0) actually is $8.44 million. So, the Kings actually lost cap space! We can't even say we couldn't afford it.

 

[Fishhead]

PLD has plateaued since he's been a 60-point forward though. How much better do you expect he'll get, when he was getting favorable offensive deployments already?

Vilardi, recovering from injury, playing a full season, and getting less favorable ice time and talent around him, just started to show what he was capable of.

PLD was where Vilardi is two years ago. And that's what he still is two years later.

Defenders of the trade keep speaking in abstracts as far as how he helps the team up the middle, but fail to give credit to the wing depth the Kings suddenly had. And there's a fair argument that Vilardi alone will outscore PLD, nevermind what Kupari and Iafallo contributed. So, how much better does it make the team?

Would they have all fit in the cap? Well, they would have fit under the cap better than PLD this year. His cap hit is 8.5. Iafallo (4.0) + Vilardi (3.44) + Kupari (1.0) actually is $8.44 million. So, the Kings actually lost cap space! We can't even say we couldn't afford it.

The cap is really the best argument of why it's better to have Vilardi, I fully agree with that. It's the one thing could end up being the tipping point in the trade when we look back on it a couple years on. At least this is the only season with impact, with Bettman estimating a 4M hike and Kopitar dropping by 3M, it won't be a problem going forward. So cap wise it seems bad now, but could end up being a decent piece of business.

In the last three years PLD's points/60 with the Jets were 1.94, then 2.35, then 2.81. Outside of the Trade/COVID season, he's been over 2. So I don't think it's a given he's plateaued. Maybe he has, but his numbers indicate otherwise. He was pacing for over 70 points last year before he picked up that knock late in the season, the best of his career.

The main reason I think it makes the team better is because of opposing matchups. In the playoffs teams often roll 3 lines and 2 defensive pairings as the games go on. We've seen that for years. You would be really hard-pressed to find a team that is as deep as the Kings are down the middle and still have strength on the wings. How many teams are stronger 1-9? Not many, if any. And their top-4 D is really solid. Goal is the only question, and that wasn't going to be addressed with or without the trade.

One thing I feel has been lost in the trade discussion is the opportunity it gives Kaliyev. We had too many wingers, and now there is an open spot. Kaliyev had a higher points/60 than Vilardi (just barely), but was substantially higher than Iafallo. It's a fair argument that Vilardi could outscore PLD, but it's also a fair one that PLD + Kaliyev outscore Vilardi + Iafallo, given Arty should see a big increase in time. I know the impression is that the team is jerking around Kaliyev, but I think his emergence is one of the reasons they felt they could make this trade. Arty has had his ups and downs so this is a big opportunity for him. Given TM's statements and the daily lineups, there is zero indication he'll be taken off the Dubois line any time soon.

There are good points to be made for and against the trade, honestly, it's a struggle not to be biased when a favorite player like Gabe was traded, I hadn't liked a King as much as him for years. It's probably therapeutic for me to see the positives of the swap and that it has made the team stronger when it comes to a 7 game series.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

On one hand, I'd like to think this is Rob Blake TM-proofing the matchups by giving him three strong veteran lines

on the other, Kopitar 24 minutes and PLD to wing by game 15