TSN: Laine cleared to return from Player Assistance Program

[oldunclehue]

Is it a matter of getting Laine's shot back to what it was or getting Laine back to the player he was in Winnipeg? He's become a more well rounded player in Columbus but I think part of that is to the detriment of his shot.

In a hypothetical world would Laine be more valuable playing with complementary linemates as a 45 goal 25 assist shoot first forget about defense guy or as a 25 goal 40 assist can play with anyone and hold his own from a defensive forward standpoint? I there's a small chance Laine can get back to a 40 goal guy while maintaining his puckhandling skills and overall play but more likely in my mind is a coach needs to pick which Laine they want.

His shot hasn’t changed it’s just the one year he fooled a lot of goalies with the uniqueness of his shot. It’s a great shot but compare Laines to Ovi’s….watch on YouTube. OVI releases from the hip and gets his shot off at an astronomical quickness. Laine has an amazing shot but does a full wind up which allows for goalies to set. They have released with his (and Matthews, Bedard) how they pull it closer to the body for the whip.

Laine will need to figure a way to have the same shot with a reduce wind up….hard for a guy who’s 6’5 and 215

 

[Mulletman]

So everybody else on the team has to do what it takes to win but Laine gets to go out there take a little skate and shoot on net like its practice , nice. I know you are Muletman but that paragraph you just wrote is something else man.

Laine can also use his 6'4 ass himself and help the team win you know?

That's not what I said. Laine is a elite player with limits and people need to admit to the fact that he can't do everything himself. That's why the elite part of his game needs to be elevated in order to get the most out of him. He's basically hockey's Hulk Hogan, but Columbus doesn't have Andre, Macho man, Ultimate Warrior and Taker to complement his game. Laine isn't a Ric Flair type of player who can carry anybody to success. Laine had a good thing going back in the early days in Winnipeg but Scheifele and Wheeler refused to job to Laine and put him over.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

That's not what I said. Laine is a elite player with limits and people need to admit to the fact that he can't do everything himself. That's why the elite part of his game needs to be elevated in order to get the most out of him. He's basically hockey's Hulk Hogan, but Columbus doesn't have Andre, Macho man, Ultimate Warrior and Taker to complement his game. Laine isn't a Ric Flair type of player who can carry anybody to success. Laine had a good thing going back in the early days in Winnipeg but Scheifele and Wheeler refused to job to Laine and put him over.

I get your point , but you understand why other teams are lowballing their offers if Laine needs all of that to get going. Who is gonna pay a hefty price for a guy like that

 

[Mulletman]

I get your point , but you understand why other teams are lowballing their offers if Laine needs all of that to get going. Who is gonna pay a hefty price for a guy like that

Yeah I know, that's why Columbus needs to retain and get rid of Laine just like @thebus88 said. Columbus has the cap space to retain and at 50% Laine is worth the gamble, especially for a team like Carolina who has a proven setup guy for Laine in Aho. And they should do it now as holding on to Laine will only make things worse. If Laine is forced to play for Columbus, a place he doesn't want to play for, his value won't be higher at the deadline when he sits at something like 16+24=40 points and -20.

And if Columbus doesn't want to retain, as a leafs fan I would love for us to ship out Tavares in order to get Laine instead. Marner could do wonders for for Laine.

 

[LOFIN]

Yeah I know, that's why Columbus needs to retain and get rid of Laine just like @thebus88 said.

Columbus doesn't need to get rid of Laine. They are not exactly contending right now, they don't need the capspace. Laine has proven that he will not quit on a team, even if both parties are looking for a divorce.

If Wadell is just offered scraps by other teams, it makes sense to let Laine start the season with CBJ and build up his value.

 

[Fatass]

Columbus doesn't need to get rid of Laine. They are not exactly contending right now, they don't need the capspace. Laine has proven that he will not quit on a team, even if both parties are looking for a divorce.

If Wadell is just offered scraps by other teams, it makes sense to let Laine start the season with CBJ and build up his value.

So Columbus isn’t in one of those situations where moving Laine would be addition by subtraction?

 

[LOFIN]

So Columbus isn’t in one of those situations where moving Laine would be addition by subtraction?

No, I don't think removing a PPG player (which Laine is, if healthy) and not replacing him with anything is actually improving the team. I don't think this is an outlandish take.

If Columbus were a contending team, and were going to immediately fill that cap space with another top guy, maybe. But I don't think they are in a position to do that.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

So Columbus isn’t in one of those situations where moving Laine would be addition by subtraction?

The thinking in Columbus is that there are no hard feelings or locker room issues and that Laine isn't a problem just by his mere presence and that the room is generally supportive of him. Unless any of that changes, I'd expect patience from the front office.

That said, Waddell has apparently said things like "we want guys who want to be here" so I feel like he's going to grant the trade request at some point. Waddell has also said if they had agreed to retain they could have traded him already.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

That's not what I said. Laine is an elite player with limits and people need to admit to the fact that he can't do everything himself. That's why the elite part of his game needs to be elevated in order to get the most out of him. He's basically hockey's Hulk Hogan, but Columbus doesn't have Andre, Macho man, Ultimate Warrior and Taker to complement his game. Laine isn't a Ric Flair type of player who can carry anybody to success. Laine had a good thing going back in the early days in Winnipeg but Scheifele and Wheeler refused to job to Laine and put him over.

Can you do more wrestling analogys ? Like who would chef and wheeler be in this scenario ?

 

[LOFIN]

The thinking in Columbus is that there are no hard feelings or locker room issues and that Laine isn't a problem just by his mere presence and that the room is generally supportive of him. Unless any of that changes, I'd expect patience from the front office.

That said, Waddell has apparently said things like "we want guys who want to be here" so I feel like he's going to grant the trade request at some point. Waddell has also said if they had agreed to retain they could have traded him already.

I mean Matt Duchene in Colorado is a good example how these things can drag out. It took almost a year for him to be traded after he handed his trade request to Sakic. Duchene was a professional, and kept playing. Laine also played really well for Winnipeg, even after his camp had requested the trade. Now we all know what happened with PLD in Columbus, but I don't think Laine is going to pull that shit. Especially since we have prior evidence of his commitment even after a trade request.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Can you do more wrestling analogys ? Like who would chef and wheeler be in this scenario ?

McDavid is Bob Backlund, a great talent with no personality.

 

[VT]

Yeah I know, that's why Columbus needs to retain and get rid of Laine just like @thebus88 said. Columbus has the cap space to retain and at 50% Laine is worth the gamble, especially for a team like Carolina who has a proven setup guy for Laine in Aho. And they should to it now as holding on to Laine will only make things worse. If Laine is forced to play for Columbus, a place he doesn't want to play for, his value won't be higher at the deadline when he sits at something like 16+24=40 points and -20.

And if Columbus doesn't want to retain, as a leafs fan I would love for us to ship out Tavares in order to get Laine instead. Marner could do wonders for for Laine.

And can you find me a setup guy for Laine in Columbus? Because Voráček and Gaudreau were the only ones. And Laine played worse with those guys than he did with Jenner, Nyquist or Chinakhov. Still, he had excellent overall stats. That's just on the topic of "How Laine needs a setup guys."

 

[Doomhammer]

McDavid is Bob Backlund, a great talent with no personality.

Bob had that great heel turn with personality.

Dean Malenko imo.

 

[Marioesque]

And can you find me a setup guy for Laine in Columbus? Because Voráček and Gaudreau were the only ones. And Laine played worse with those guys than he did with Jenner, Nyquist or Chinakhov. Still, he had excellent overall stats. That's just on the topic of "How Laine needs a setup guys."

Yeah it's not rocket science what helps Laine to use his best assets. If you have a guy who can win pucks behind the net and in the corners, that allows Laine to be open for a shot. If he's the guy going in the corners to chase the puck then he can't shoot as much and also gets injured more.

All players benefit from playing with good players, especially when their styles match and everyone has a strength that adds to the roles in a line. From what I have seen, the only reason why Johnny with Laine doesn't work to it's potential is that Laine is extremely effective from outside the slot and Johnny's instinct for a "good scoring chance" is a tap in from the slot. He likes to pass to the slot for a high risk/high reward chance. That's not an area Laine naturally gravitates to, although he does go to the net too.

Laine seemingly prefers to move in the low risk passing area (outside slot, less opponents sticks blocking pass or shot) because he knows he can score from there just as well as someone else from 5 feet out. But from Johnny's perspective that might be less preferable than throwing that high risk pass to slot. Because until now, that play has always been a higher percentage success play than passing it outside of slot for shots. He has not adjusted to Laine's shot being highly effective from further out because it's counter intuitive to him as he's never had anyone who can convert from that far with consistency. Johnny is conditioned to making the plays he sees more worth it, and Laine is conditioned to seek open ice where it's easier to pass to and easier for him to get an unobstructed shot from.

 

[Jimmybarndoor2]

Yeah it's not rocket science what helps Laine to use his best assets. If you have a guy who can win pucks behind the net and in the corners, that allows Laine to be open for a shot. If he's the guy going in the corners to chase the puck then he can't shoot as much and also gets injured more.

All players benefit from playing with good players, especially when their styles match and everyone has a strength that adds to the roles in a line. From what I have seen, the only reason why Johnny with Laine doesn't work to it's potential is that Laine is extremely effective from outside the slot and Johnny's instinct for a "good scoring chance" is a tap in from the slot. He likes to pass to the slot for a high risk/high reward chance. That's not an area Laine naturally gravitates to, although he does go to the net too.

Laine seemingly prefers to move in the low risk passing area (outside slot, less opponents sticks blocking pass or shot) because he knows he can score from there just as well as someone else from 5 feet out. But from Johnny's perspective that might be less preferable than throwing that high risk pass to slot. Because until now, that play has always been a higher percentage success play than passing it outside of slot for shots. He has not adjusted to Laine's shot being highly effective from further out because it's counter intuitive to him as he's never had anyone who can convert from that far with consistency. Johnny is conditioned to making the plays he sees more worth it, and Laine is conditioned to seek open ice where it's easier to pass to and easier for him to get an unobstructed shot from.

So if he is with teamates that can do the puck battles then he looks for the easy place where he can shoot. Is that what you are saying.

“Give me the puck “.

So if he is with teamates that can do the puck battles then he looks for the easy place where he can shoot. Is that what you are saying.

“Give me the puck “.

Then Don’t want him on my team

So if he is with teamates that can do the puck battles then he looks for the easy place where he can shoot. Is that what you are saying.

“Give me the puck “.


Then Don’t want him on my team

Sounds like Alex Nylander

 

[Marioesque]

So if he is with teamates that can do the puck battles then he looks for the easy place where he can shoot. Is that what you are saying.

Yeah, that's how you can get the best out of him. His biggest strength is shooting, he's better than others at it. That's how he'll help you win the most. When you use people to their strengths, you get best results. If you use them to their weaknesses then you get worse results. That's just how things work. In every hockey situation too. Everywhere.

If a players strength is shooting, your best bet is to try and get more shots out of the player. Should be pretty clear.

None of this is to suggest that he would not or could not do other things, he does and does it well. He's not great in stick on stick battles near the boards, that long 87 flex stick doesn't do great in that environment.

So it's just understanding what your forte is and then trying to use that for teams benefit. He SHOULD be looking for shooting positions. If for nothing else, it always draws extra defense to him because they know it's dangerous to leave open anywhere in the offensive zone. This opens more room for his linemates to operate in closer to the net. It's a symbiosis.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

If a players strength is shooting, your best bet is to try and get more shots out of the player. Should be pretty clear.

i actually think he's at his best when he's a facilitator on his line. he can be the trigger man, but his best results came when he was the guy getting all of the attention, which opened up opportunities for nyquist and jenner.

his elite shot making him a scoring threat from distance actually made that even more effective.

i do agree in abstract that him shooting the puck more will probably yield better results, but the gripe with him in winnipeg was that he needed to be more than a one-trick pony. he's a very well-rounded dual threat scorer (assists + goals) now, and is a better 5v5 offensive player now.

 

[Marioesque]

i actually think he's at his best when he's a facilitator on his line. he can be the trigger man, but his best results came when he was the guy getting all of the attention, which opened up opportunities for nyquist and jenner.

his elite shot making him a scoring threat from distance actually made that even more effective.

i do agree in abstract that him shooting the puck more will probably yield better results, but the gripe with him in winnipeg was that he needed to be more than a one-trick pony. he's a very well-rounded dual threat scorer (assists + goals) now, and is a better 5v5 offensive player now.

Agreed. In Jets for a while they had a very good working PP so Laine's scoring shined through that. Since then he hasn't been in a good PP unit much, but his 5 on 5 and overall play has grown. Would be nice to have both at the same time, and for a longer period of time

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Agreed. In Jets for a while they had a very good working PP so Laine's scoring shined through that. Since then he hasn't been in a good PP unit much, but his 5 on 5 and overall play has grown. Would be nice to have both at the same time, and for a longer period of time

yeah he's an awesome distributor at 5v5 but not a guy who can run a power play.

a smart team would let him be the primary guy on their second line at 5v5, build the top power play unit around using his one-timer, and watch him score at a 90+ point pace when healthy.

even with the injury risk, a guy who can do that is a strong asset if retained down to $4.3m.

 

[VT]

So if he is with teamates that can do the puck battles then he looks for the easy place where he can shoot. Is that what you are saying.

“Give me the puck “.


Then Don’t want him on my team


Sounds like Alex Nylander

Look his games with Boone Jenner, who led this line, who created the most chances. Similar as in Roslovic's line. He did players better.

Probably you did not understand. Jenner does not extra hockey IQ but he is great in the front of the net, at the boards, corners. Laine created chances, made a great passes under pressure include the first pass and was forced to shoot.

Btw, Roslovic is another type of player.

 

[cotopaxi]

His shot hasn’t changed it’s just the one year he fooled a lot of goalies with the uniqueness of his shot. It’s a great shot but compare Laines to Ovi’s….watch on YouTube. OVI releases from the hip and gets his shot off at an astronomical quickness. Laine has an amazing shot but does a full wind up which allows for goalies to set. They have released with his (and Matthews, Bedard) how they pull it closer to the body for the whip.

Laine will need to figure a way to have the same shot with a reduce wind up….hard for a guy who’s 6’5 and 215

Not correct. His shot has changed and for the worse, it's quite easy to see when you compare his highlights in WPG and CBJ. His shot used to be a lot more accurate and quicker. Last couple of seasons there hasn't been the same level of anticipation at all when he gets a good pass on the powerplay, where as he was expected to score everytime he got a onetimer off from his office in WPG. They even switched Laine several times away from his usual spot because his shot just rang off the boards and just wasn't a threat at all. And it's not just the one timer, he doesn't even try to score with his wrister anymore on the powerplay, the same way he scored a ton of goals earlier in his career, just by sniping it from top of the circle.

So it's quite obvious that there's some issues with his shooting that didn't persist earlier, might be the injuries or something else.

You are correct however that he needs to get his shot off quicker, like he was able to do when he was younger. I just don't think he's really going to be able to do that. Laine relied on excellent technique and agility with his shooting, and the latter is something that is very difficult to maintain the more you get older.

 

[Marioesque]

His shot has changed and for the worse, it's quite easy to see when you compare his highlights in WPG and CBJ. His shot used to be a lot more accurate and quicker. Last couple of seasons there hasn't been the same level of anticipation at all when he gets a good pass on the powerplay

I had to go take a look because my memory was different, and this just doesn't track with video.

The anticipation change comes from you.

I agree with PP. That is on Werenski mainly. He's the main shooter in his PP and he can't pass quickly to his left.

 

[Marioesque]

When it comes to PP shooting, even from the wrong side with no one T option, he can shoot.
This is from one of the few games he played past season



His shooting isn't worse. The position he played PP in was worse. He can't onetime from RD but that's what he was playing because Johnny wants to play the left side and Zach can't pass to left anyway.

exhibit B

 

[cotopaxi]

I had to go take a look because my memory was different, and this just doesn't track with video.

The anticipation comes from you.

I'm not saying he's not an excellent shooter or goal scorer, I'm just saying that his shot is not as good as it used to be.
Take a look at e.g. Laine's 17/18 goals. He's amazingly smooth with his shot, and he gets crazy power with deadly accuracy without having to put a lot of effort on it. His release is noticeably quicker compared to your 22/23 video.



Also what is noticeable is that he scores his goals a lot closer to the net than how he was able to score in 17/18, where he could just snipe the puck while basically standing still from way behind the circles. Now he has to get a lot closer to the net to score because he just can't shoot the puck anymore like he did before.

If you compare the one timers in both videos, the most recent one has most of them as a result of a really good pass, where there's basically an empty net to shoot at. 17/18 there's a whole bunch of them as well, but then there are some that were just a display of the best shot in hockey at that time, where his onetimer is just impossible to stop, for example this one at 4:15. He just doesn't get a shot like this off anymore.



If you still think his shot is as good as it used to be, I'm sorry to say but you are wrong.

 

[Marioesque]

I'm not saying he's not an excellent shooter or goal scorer, I'm just saying that his shot is not as good as it used to be.
Take a look at e.g. Laine's 17/18 goals. He's amazingly smooth with his shot, and he gets crazy power with deadly accuracy without having to put a lot of effort on it. His release is noticeably quicker compared to your 22/23 video.



Also what is noticeable is that he scores his goals a lot closer to the net than how he was able to score in 17/18, where he could just snipe the puck while basically standing still from way behind the circles. Now he has to get a lot closer to the net to score because he just can't shoot the puck anymore like he did before.

If you compare the one timers in both videos, the most recent one has most of them as a result of a really good pass, where there's basically an empty net to shoot at. 17/18 there's a whole bunch of them as well, but then there are some that were just a display of the best shot in hockey at that time, where his onetimer is just impossible to stop, for example this one at 4:15. He just doesn't get a shot like this off anymore.



If you still think his shot is as good as it used to be, I'm sorry to say but you are wrong.

I've seen all of them many times. I don't see that the shooting has gotten worse but he has not had many stretches of being healthy and in a stable line situation, or a winning team. The skill is there, just not been shown as much.