Value of: Lafrenière to Mtl

[HuGo Sham]

I don' t think Laf is worthy of a 10th overall pick in next year draft.

Maybe, but Habs will try and draft another C. No need for a winger with Caufield and Slaf.

 

[HuGort]

I defend Lafreniere often enough and if he were a second rounder I think everyone would be cool with what he’s doing. He’s wasn’t. That’s the issue. Just accept that he’s playing like a late first or second rounder, even, and it’d be fine.

He shouldn't be playing this way. He dominated in junior like few can.

 

[JustAHabFan]

He shouldn't be playing this way. He dominated in junior like few can.

Dominating the Q and play well in the NHL are different things.The Q is notoriously weak.

 

[HuGort]

Dominating the Q and play well in the NHL are different things.The Q is notoriously weak.

Probably be cheaper for Habs to acquire Dubois. More sure what getting also.

 

[Royal Canuck]

If Lafrenière is a lottery ticket kind of player, which I think he is, a solid depth center + solid prospect is a good starting point for a discussion IMO

It's way better than the insanity that is Slafkovsky for Lafrenière, don't you think? (If you don't think so, it's because you clearly don't know what you're talking about.)

Lafreniere and Kakko were instantly jolted into a contending team in New York in bottom six roles. I don't think Slafkovsky would've fared any better than those two. In fact I still hold Lafreniere's stock higher than anyone taken in the 2022 draft. That part is opinionated, but I think the value meter is much closer than you have it drawn out.

 

[sennysensen]

They should trade Guhle for Lafreniere, who can become the next McDonough / Sergachev.

 

[norrisnick]

If I'm ever a GM and there is any sort of tricky decision high up in the draft, I'm picking the francophone every time. If he doesn't pan out you can always reclaim your draft capital by pawning him off to the Habs.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

They should trade Guhle for Lafreniere, who can become the next McDonough / Sergachev.

And Lafreniere becoming the next Drouin.

 

[viceroy]

now for Montreal the equivalency would probably something involving Guhle and another mid first equivalent asset. No I don’t think Montreal trades Guhle but like all the other scenarios, here that would be the precedent

If your data got you to this point well then maybe you re-assess your values. I personally think the long term boost in worth given to 1st overalls has decreased over the years.

Monahan is not a "solid depth" center, he's a negative value asset.

Maybe when we got him he had negative value but not anymore. I believe we'll get something nice for him at the TDL.

 

[Mersss]

Copy and pasting something from the Vancouver / Lafreniere thread I wrote because it’s relevant.

someone mentions it’s rare 1oa picks are traded and brought up Erik Johnson to Colorado. Rest is below

So let’s talk about the Erik Johnson trade because that’s kind of an interesting one. He was dealt, with Jay McClement, for Kevin Shattenkirk and Chris Stewart. This was the year after Johnson’s knee exploded. McClement was a nice player but was basically a throw in.

Shattenkirk was a first round pick at the same position as Johnson, taken in the draft after, with a different play style and Steward was a power winger with upside.

So we have Lafrenière here being Johnson, and if we are looking at the Johnson trade, which you brought up, who are some other wings that went in the following draft? Funny enough the best mid first round winger that draft was probably Othmann, but some of the other names would be guys like Boucher (OTT), Coronato (CGY), Rosen (BUF), Lysell , (BOS), Samoskevich (FLA), L’herveau (NSH), and Olausson (COL). If the Rangers would be looking for a ‘Shattenkirk equivalent’ those are the players that fit the criteria; but unlike a lot of those guys, Shatterkirk has played NHL games before he was traded. And again I’m not saying these are players that would or wouldn’t be traded, we are just looking at a winger drafted in the first round the year after Lafreniere.

Chris Stewart was drafted same year/same round as Johnson. Like Shattenkirk another mid first rounder. And I am not going to go through like every name again like I did with the last paragraph but if we are looking at a team that wants Lafreniere and we are using the Johnson trade as a comp you are looking at something like this, (yes pick swap was involved and yes there was a vet throwin)

- Ceulemens and Chinakov from CBJ
- Boucher and Greig from OTT (this one probably makes the most sense to the Rangers)
- Coronato and Zary from CGY

Those are the strictly criteria based trades that would fulfill the Erik Johnson scenario. Just some food for thought. These aren’t perfect but based on precedent. Dallas could theoretically fulfill this with W. Johnson and Bourque but that isn’t happening. NJ could put something together but that isn’t happening; although if Lafreniere was dealt for Mercer that would be very eerily similar to though (but again wouldn’t happen); Chicago could potentially do Reichel and Allen but that’s less. Sorry if I missed anything else but I think that’s enough from me

now for Montreal the equivalency would probably something involving Guhle and another mid first equivalent asset. No I don’t think Montreal trades Guhle but like all the other scenarios, here that would be the precedent

Except Johnson was already playing like a top4 dman, and even top pairing
Lafreniere has done nothing

 

[Savant]

Except Johnson was already playing like a top4 dman, and even top pairing
Lafreniere has done nothing

Johnson was also coming off major knee surgery. Wasn’t exactly a sure thing when he was dealt

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Maybe when we got him he had negative value but not anymore. I believe we'll get something nice for him at the TDL.

He's being paid $6.4M and has 1 point in his last 7 games when the other team has their goalie in the net, and even that assist was just a faceoff win.

He's gone 9 games without a goal and only has 13 shots in those 9 games. It's been 10 games since he registered more than 2 shots in a game, and he's only done that twice all season.

Even at $3.2M he's still a negative value asset.

 

[Mersss]

Johnson was also coming off major knee surgery. Wasn’t exactly a sure thing when he was dealt

Yoi at least knew he was capable of being one of the best D in the league. Lafreniere has nothing.

 

[Voight]

If Lafrenière is a lottery ticket kind of player, which I think he is, a solid depth center + solid prospect is a good starting point for a discussion IMO

It's way better than the insanity that is Slafkovsky for Lafrenière, don't you think? (If you don't think so, it's because you clearly don't know what you're talking about.)

Laf may suck (compared to his hype/draft position) but Monahan with a prospect is a joke of an offer. Rags would be better off waiting to see if he reaches another level.

If your data got you to this point well then maybe you re-assess your values. I personally think the long term boost in worth given to 1st overalls has decreased over the years.



Maybe when we got him he had negative value but not anymore. I believe we'll get something nice for him at the TDL.

Why? Cause he had a hot streak for a couple games to start the year?

 

[ole ole]

They should trade Guhle for Lafreniere, who can become the next McDonough / Sergachev.

I wouldn't trade Guhle for Lafreniere even if the Rangers added their 1st rd pick.

 

[Savant]

Yoi at least knew he was capable of being one of the best D in the league. Lafreniere has nothing.

Not after his knee exploded. Many thought it could be a career ender, and frankly it took Johnson quite a bit to get back on track. if people from other fan bases think Lafreniere has nothing, then people from. Other fan bases should stop making these threads

 

[Flan the incredible]

If Laf was playing on PP1 his numbers would be significantly better. As a Ranger fan I am glad he isn't so maybe we can get him to sign a cheaper deal. The players who feast on PP production really increase their point totals. McDavid, drai, Kaprizov, Makar, Tavares, Rantanen etc all are around 50% or higher in their point totals for the year. Opportunity matters. Top PP time matters. Playing on the 3rd line compared to top line matters. No one is looking to acquire Laf for the 3rd line because you all know what would happen. Rangers arent trading him and especially for scraps. Stop the madness

 

[Mersss]

Not after his knee exploded. Many thought it could be a career ender, and frankly it took Johnson quite a bit to get back on track. if people from other fan bases think Lafreniere has nothing, then people from. Other fan bases should stop making these threads

And NYR fans should stop thinking they can get a guy like Guhle who's been playing much betetr than Lafreniere EVER HAS in his rookie season for him. Hell Guhle has as many points as Lafreneire this year, playing as a d-man...

 

[bernmeister]

If Laf was playing on PP1 his numbers would be significantly better. As a Ranger fan I am glad he isn't so maybe we can get him to sign a cheaper deal. The players who feast on PP production really increase their point totals. McDavid, drai, Kaprizov, Makar, Tavares, Rantanen etc all are around 50% or higher in their point totals for the year. Opportunity matters. Top PP time matters. Playing on the 3rd line compared to top line matters. No one is looking to acquire Laf for the 3rd line because you all know what would happen. Rangers arent trading him and especially for scraps. Stop the madness

Agree w/all of this and while to some extent LaF has partially had some opportunity, another aspect of this is chemistry. Most of these guys are jerked around on dif lines.
Practice, as contingency for injury, fine
But not in the game

regular linemates = familiarity = faster recognition on anticipating/making plays = better production

that is for everybody, but most Rangers are jerked in an out on lines way too much

 

[Kupo]

Except Johnson was already playing like a top4 dman, and even top pairing
Lafreniere has done nothing

Only 69 forwards had more ESG than Laf last season. Suggesting he’s done nothing is a kinda silly take.

Not saying he hasn’t lived up to the hype of a 1stOA, because he hasn’t. But he also hasn’t been given the same opportunity as most 1stOA’s.

And NYR fans should stop thinking they can get a guy like Guhle

How many Rangers fans are proposing Laf/Guhle…..?

 

[viceroy]

He's being paid $6.4M and has 1 point in his last 7 games when the other team has their goalie in the net, and even that assist was just a faceoff win.

He's gone 9 games without a goal and only has 13 shots in those 9 games. It's been 10 games since he registered more than 2 shots in a game, and he's only done that twice all season.

Even at $3.2M he's still a negative value asset.

Why? Cause he had a hot streak for a couple games to start the year?

God save us from Stat Watchers. If either of you watched games you'd see Monahan is looking good. He's playing the right way, moving on the ice well and being a leader. What we need now is to find the right spot for him. We just found Dach's spot and are still figuring out where everyone fits on team. We just found a possible 3rd line with Gallagher- Dvorak-Hoffman/Anderson.

This team has a lot of new faces and is still a bit of a Frankenstein team.

 

[Beendair Donedat]

Ryder, Halak and a 2nd.

Oh wait...

Man that’s fresh!!! Awesome job.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

God save us from Stat Watchers. If either of you watched games you'd see Monahan is looking good. He's playing the right way, moving on the ice well and being a leader. What we need now is to find the right spot for him. We just found Dach's spot and are still figuring out where everyone fits on team. We just found a possible 3rd line with Gallagher- Dvorak-Hoffman/Anderson.

This team has a lot of new faces and is still a bit of a Frankenstein team.

I have been watching. He hasn't hardly done anything out there. He's posting negative possession numbers again for the umpteenth time in his career:

This is a one dimensional player who can really only do that one dimension when he's getting spoonfed scoring chances. He's a $6.4M anchor who can take faceoffs.

 

[Flan the incredible]

And NYR fans should stop thinking they can get a guy like Guhle who's been playing much betetr than Lafreniere EVER HAS in his rookie season for him. Hell Guhle has as many points as Lafreneire this year, playing as a d-man...

No he doesn't.

 

[jfhabs]

Lafreniere and Kakko were instantly jolted into a contending team in New York in bottom six roles. I don't think Slafkovsky would've fared any better than those two. In fact I still hold Lafreniere's stock higher than anyone taken in the 2022 draft. That part is opinionated, but I think the value meter is much closer than you have it drawn out.

Maybe in terms of potential, but Lafreniere is finishing his ELC this season... those 2 extra years of ELC have a value. From a contender standpoint, if you want to go all in this year, you probably prefer Lafreniere. From a rebuilding POV you take Slafkovsky.