News Article: Lafleur says Vanek, Patches should GTFO

Agnostic

11 Stanley Cups
Jun 24, 2007
8,409
2
Because Max is, or is turning into, a perimeter player. Watch the board battles all during the playoffs. Where's #67? Nowhere to be seen. He's floating outside the fray, waiting for someone else to do the dirty work and get him the puck so he can shoot & get the glory. If he thinks that's what constitutes "playing well", when he's not scoring, then he's in dire need of an attitude adjustment. He needs to be a better hockey player than that. Otherwise in five years time he's going to be cursed in the same tones that Vanek is cursed today, because he'll be exactly the same kind of player.

He needs to be separated from DD, for an extended period of time if not permanently, for his own good.

This. 100 percent this.

In the language of hockey and in particular scorers , "streaky" is a euphemism for inconsistent work ethic . Most times , and for Pacioretty specifically a "cold streak" doesn't just fall from the sky.

The reaction to comments by a legend remind me of that great Nicholson line . "You can't handle the truth".
 

Kents polished head

Formerly Tough Au Lit
Feb 4, 2013
9,702
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This. 100 percent this.

In the language of hockey and in particular scorers , "streaky" is a euphemism for inconsistent work ethic . Most times , and for Pacioretty specifically a "cold streak" doesn't just fall from the sky.

The reaction to comments by a legend remind me of that great Nicholson line . "You can't handle the truth".

If the "truth" is getting rid of our only 2 players likely to hit 20 goals even on an off year, well, yeah... I can't handle the truth.

Sounds like people here are missing the Patrick Poulin days.
 

hototogisu

Poked the bear!!!!!
Jun 30, 2006
41,189
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:laugh: Why would anyone pay any attention to Lafleur's "expert analysis".

This is like treating Laraque's views on fighting as gospel...both are clowns.
 

Milhouse40

Registered User
Aug 19, 2010
22,561
25,681
Pacioretty and Vanek = Goal scorer

Here in MTL every big guys have to hit and play gritty....simply cause we have too much small players that can't really hit. Many top stars in the NHL doesn't hit, just
like Vanek..... If poeple would've look at his stats, they would've known that TV isn't
a physical player.

Everybody here would've like to see Pacioretty eat the boards in the PO....but just a quick question: Is Pacioretty have been injured enough in his short career already?

How many injuries before he's label an "injury prone player"?

But for me Pacioretty don't have to go, but if a good offer presents itself, you have to be open-minded about it. I don't like some of his complaints....

- Openly critize the fans....to protect his bestfriend. Never did it for anybody else.
- Complaining about playing 3rd line minutes under Martin.
- Complaining about playing a more defensive game with Plek...lines changed after that.
- Avoid completely the media when things go bad for him....like in the first 2 rounds
- Do Therrien wants DD in 1st line center role more than....Pacioretty wants to play exclusively with him....like he mention many times?

Those would be the things that could make Pacioretty a tradeable assets, but only in a blockbuster trade with a juicy returns, nothing less.

One thing for sure.....40 goals doesn't make you a Captain, like many were saying not too long ago.
 

Et le But

Registered User
Nov 28, 2010
20,473
2,448
New York
Why should we get rid of Pacioretty anyway? So he has one reason to come back and whine about how we got 4 4th lines?

Lafleur was a ****ing prima-donna his entire career, smoking in the locker room between periods, retiring when he wasn't pleased with his icetime and whatnot... The fact he's being an ambassador for the team is a God damn shame. He's a terrible individual... on almost any single aspect. His viagra must've got to his head.

He's an ambassador, but there's a reason the organization never gave him any real position, or even display him as much as they do Beliveau and Henri Richard.
 

DenverHabsFan

Registered User
Sep 9, 2011
1,943
121
Highlands Ranch, CO
Great discussion so far and good points on all sides.

Personally, I think it's too early to tell if Patches is another Joe Thornton but I was disgusted with his lack of effort and perimeter game. He hasn't been the same since his injury and admitted himself to changing his game. What's infuriating is that he won't battle hard against Chara and the Bruins in general, including regular season games. I thought he would find revenge in hurting them on the scoresheet but he downplayed the Chara incident from day one, almost as if he never wanted to bring attention to himself. Maybe that's just his personality in general. His comments about the pressure of wearing an A or C are very telling. Let's give the guy a chance to prove himself in the future.

As for Lafleur, I would like to point out a few things to the people who are outraged over all the criticism:

Being in my early 40's, I was too young to remember his peak years and the multiple cups and scoring championships. My memories of him are those of a very divisive person who quit on my beloved Habs and spent the last few decades rubbing it in, one way or another. There was the painful return at the Forum with the crowd cheering him and then the final betrayal when he joined the Nords. Those are my memories and they might offend you if you are older and thought he was a god, or if you are younger and just remember Lafleur as one of the greats but never saw him play.

During that dark period of his retirement and eventual return with the Rangers, the Habs were bleeding fans who went on to cheer for the Nords, Bruins, Flyers and whatever other team they liked. That legacy endures to this day as that generation had kids who grew up cheering for those same teams. Let's not be surprised that there are so many haters out there on various forums and that they are from our own province. Lafleur is a big reason for that. Believe me, I've heard it countless times from older uncles who still, to this day, blame the Habs for "what they did" to Lafleur.

Some of us remember that he could have swallowed his pride and waited for a coaching change. He could have been part of the 86 run and Habs history would have been very different.

Having said that, I understand his comments and share his frustration but Lafleur and posters who have a "cup or bust" attitude need to keep this in mind:

- There are 30 teams with a salary cap and insane parity. Just look at Avs who went from last to a top team in one year. There were fewer teams in Lafleur's era.

- Lafleur never played more than 17 games to win the cup. Series and season were shorter. Habs just played 17 games on a losing run and the Kings played 21 games already.

- Hockey is faster and more physical than it used to be. It's extremely hard to score goals. Goalie equipment is huge. Video analysis and other technology improvements make it a game of inches.

- 30 teams sharing a diminished talent pool in the Q. There hasn't been another Lafleur since Mario Lemieux and that was a long time ago!

- Fantastic teams like the Hawks have a hard time winning consecutive cups. They could have been a dynasty in the 70's.

Instead of throwing bombs at the Habs every few years, Lafleur should try to be a positive influence on the organization and inspire young kids to pick up hockey for the love of the game.

In other words, I wish he would age well...
 

optimus2861

Registered User
Aug 29, 2005
5,061
568
Bedford NS
If the "truth" is getting rid of our only 2 players likely to hit 20 goals even on an off year, well, yeah... I can't handle the truth.

Sounds like people here are missing the Patrick Poulin days.
I do not and never have advocated cutting Pacioretty loose. I do advocate making him into a more complete hockey player, primarily by getting him away from DD. That pairing is good for the regular season and weak matchups only. It does not create consistent success under any other circumstances. If 17 playoff games didn't demonstrate that in brilliant HD, I don't know what will.

I would take a 30-goal-scoring hard-working Pacioretty over a 40-goal-scoring floating Pacioretty any freaking day of the week. He's got the talent to do it; the questions are, does he have the will to do it, and does management have the fortitude to push him to do it.
 

Kents polished head

Formerly Tough Au Lit
Feb 4, 2013
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I can't believe there's so much criticism towards a player who found a way to score 39 goals in 73 games on one of the lowest scoring teams in the league. Sometimes you have to live with the player for the best and for the worst. And I can definitely live with a 40 goals scorer, no matter how he scores them, when the others have trouble even hitting the 20 goals mark on a healthy 82 games season.
 

Mrb1p

PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Dec 10, 2011
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Citizen of the world
Based on your observations, what kind of tool is Kane? Is he a hammer? A ratchet? A screwdriver, maybe? Or maybe an electric tool, like a drill, or a sander? Is he wireless? Does he come with a 24V battery? His own box? Extended warranty?

I want to take a second to point out that this .... this wasn't funny at all :laugh:
 

Habs Icing

Formerly Onice
Jan 17, 2004
20,003
11,868
Montreal
I can't believe there's so much criticism towards a player who found a way to score 39 goals in 73 games on one of the lowest scoring teams in the league. Sometimes you have to live with the player for the best and for the worst. And I can definitely live with a 40 goals scorer, no matter how he scores them, when the others have trouble even hitting the 20 goals mark on a healthy 82 games season.

I believe Vanek had one point less than Patches during the playoffs so according to your logic we should live with him too. Aside from 4 mil a year what else distinguishes Vanek from Patches?
 

JuicyHam

Registered User
Dec 16, 2013
8,715
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windsor
I believe Vanek had one point less than Patches during the playoffs so according to your logic we should live with him too. Aside from 4 mil a year what else distinguishes Vanek from Patches?

One plays with desharnais forever and ever.
 

hototogisu

Poked the bear!!!!!
Jun 30, 2006
41,189
80
Montreal, QC
I would take a 30-goal-scoring hard-working Pacioretty over a 40-goal-scoring floating Pacioretty any freaking day of the week. He's got the talent to do it; the questions are, does he have the will to do it, and does management have the fortitude to push him to do it.

This all sounds nice to say, but there are very, very few perfect hockey players in the world, and Max is still pretty complete for what he is. He's a 40 goal scorer who takes a regular shift on the penalty kill, plays in the last minute of games, is a leader in the room, etc...I mean...is that really so bad that we have to start molding him into something else? Honestly?

For all his "floating", let's not forget:

1. This was essentially his first NHL playoffs (unless you count the 4 games he played with a separated shoulder last year)

2. He still, as someone pointed out, scored 4 goals (all ES) and 4 assists in his last 9 playoff games this year.

3. He scored both series winning goals vs. TB and BOS.

Don't we have other, bigger problems to worry about before trying to "fix" a guy with the resume above?
 

Mrb1p

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Dec 10, 2011
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Citizen of the world
If the "truth" is getting rid of our only 2 players likely to hit 20 goals even on an off year, well, yeah... I can't handle the truth.

Sounds like people here are missing the Patrick Poulin days.

It's not about trading the guy. It's about the guy either starting to play more like he should or surrounding him with players that play the right/white way. The softness on our first line was disgusting, only matched by Sedin-Sedin in the last few years.
 

Habs Icing

Formerly Onice
Jan 17, 2004
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Montreal
One plays with desharnais forever and ever.

Yeah a DD who with Gally does all the &*^%ing dirty work on the line.

And Vanek played on the 4th line for most of the playoffs.

Alot of you guys are blaming DD for Patches putrid play. Did you forget his Olympic presence. Wanna blame his heroic Olympic contribution on his American linemates too?
 

Mrb1p

PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Dec 10, 2011
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This all sounds nice to say, but there are very, very few perfect hockey players in the world, and Max is still pretty complete for what he is. He's a 40 goal scorer who takes a regular shift on the penalty kill, plays in the last minute of games, is a leader in the room, etc...I mean...is that really so bad that we have to start molding him into something else? Honestly?

For all his "floating", let's not forget:

1. This was essentially his first NHL playoffs (unless you count the 4 games he played with a separated shoulder last year)

2. He still, as someone pointed out, scored 4 goals (all ES) and 4 assists in his last 9 playoff games this year.

3. He scored both series winning goals vs. TB and BOS.

Don't we have other, bigger problems to worry about before trying to "fix" a guy with the resume above?

Yes, fixing the PP.
 

sharks9

Registered User
Jan 16, 2012
16,444
2,604
Canada
Yeah and he has surely shown it in the playoffs. :sarcasm:

So do you think the Penguins should trade Crosby because the playoffs are all that matter?

This post is proof positive that you are a dimension traveler and came to our world only after the end of the New York series. Maybe once you get back to your dimension you take our Pacioretty with you and send us the one that plays in your world.

Go look up Pacioretty's possession stats, he's one of the best players in the league in driving possession and made big improvements to his two way game this here. He was solid for us on the PK which allows him to contribute even when he's not scoring.
 

JuicyHam

Registered User
Dec 16, 2013
8,715
4,386
windsor
Yeah a DD who with Gally does all the &*^%ing dirty work on the line.

And Vanek played on the 4th line for most of the playoffs.

Alot of you guys are blaming DD for Patches putrid play. Did you forget his Olympic presence. Wanna blame his heroic Olympic contribution on his American linemates too?

I did not blame desharnais. I was simply stating a true fact.
 

hototogisu

Poked the bear!!!!!
Jun 30, 2006
41,189
80
Montreal, QC
Yeah a DD who with Gally does all the &*^%ing dirty work on the line.

And Vanek played on the 4th line for most of the playoffs.

Alot of you guys are blaming DD for Patches putrid play. Did you forget his Olympic presence. Wanna blame his heroic Olympic contribution on his American linemates too?

Amusingly, Pacioretty played on the 4th line for most of the Olympics. Which may or may not be related to the fact that he left the Canadiens' last game before the break with an injury.
 

Kents polished head

Formerly Tough Au Lit
Feb 4, 2013
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I believe Vanek had one point less than Patches during the playoffs so according to your logic we should live with him too. Aside from 4 mil a year what else distinguishes Vanek from Patches?

I don't know, probably the 12 goals Pacioretty had on Vanek on the season, and the fact that he comes on a cap-friendly 4.5M/year deal. You can also make a point about him playing both on the PP and the PK, and being one of our quickest players?

Anyone who suggests we should be trading Pacioretty either has a very low IQ, or doesn't know **** about hockey.

As someone else pointed out earlier on this topic; Pacioretty is the least of the concerns of the Montreal Canadiens.
 

Habs Icing

Formerly Onice
Jan 17, 2004
20,003
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Montreal
Amusingly, Pacioretty played on the 4th line for most of the Olympics. Which may or may not be related to the fact that he left the Canadiens' last game before the break with an injury.

Right. So why bother having a debate. Everytime someone brings up Patches not showing up when it matters his fans have an excuse.

Last year's playoffs, he was hurt. At the Olympics again he was hurt. Couldn't have been that bad he was still dressed. Relegating him to the 4th line probably had more to do with his lackluster play than any injury we want to imagine. Besides he said during and after the Olympics the injury didn't bother him. This year the excuse is what? That he was teamed with DD? That he's only 25?
 

Kents polished head

Formerly Tough Au Lit
Feb 4, 2013
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Right. So why bother having a debate. Everytime someone brings up Patches not showing up when it matters his fans have an excuse.

Last year's playoffs, he was hurt. At the Olympics again he was hurt. Couldn't have been that bad he was still dressed. Relegating him to the 4th line probably had more to do with his lackluster play than any injury we want to imagine. Besides he said during and after the Olympics the injury didn't bother him. This year the excuse is what? That he was teamed with DD? That he's only 25?

Why don't you go cheer for Nashville, whose best scorer had 21 goals? Maybe you'll appreciate a 39 goals scorer more afterwards.
 

Em Ancien

Sexy 2nd Rounder
Mar 12, 2008
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I would take a 30-goal-scoring hard-working Pacioretty over a 40-goal-scoring floating Pacioretty any freaking day of the week. He's got the talent to do it; the questions are, does he have the will to do it, and does management have the fortitude to push him to do it.

I don't understand, a guy works harder than his perceived floating self and he scores less? :laugh:

Every single goal scorer gets smacked with the floater tag when they're not scoring. Then they get put with other good players, then they suddenly turn into incredible playoff performers.

I can't say I've ever seen a season without people taking it out on Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Gaborik, Semin, Carter, etc. You can want all the blue collar guys in the world, at some point, we need to have some decent amount of skill to get somewhere and getting somewhere starts with Pacioretty having people to play with. Our roster is already looking very thin on talent next season.
 

hototogisu

Poked the bear!!!!!
Jun 30, 2006
41,189
80
Montreal, QC
Right. So why bother having a debate. Everytime someone brings up Patches not showing up when it matters his fans have an excuse.

Last year's playoffs, he was hurt. At the Olympics again he was hurt. Couldn't have been that bad he was still dressed. Relegating him to the 4th line probably had more to do with his lackluster play than any injury we want to imagine. Besides he said during and after the Olympics the injury didn't bother him. This year the excuse is what? That he was teamed with DD? That he's only 25?

Yeah, it's not like Pacioretty is frequently playing injured or anything like that. That never happens.

And why would I need to excuse his playoffs this year? All things considered, and as I showed in my earlier post, he did reasonably well. By all means, continue the stream of misguided anger.
 

Habs Icing

Formerly Onice
Jan 17, 2004
20,003
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Montreal
As someone else pointed out earlier on this topic; Pacioretty is the least of the concerns of the Montreal Canadiens.

If patches is our go to guy yeah he is a concern. If patches is a complementary player then I have no problems with him on the team. But how do you get a go to guy without trading Patches?
 

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