Lack of Killer Instinct

[Mess]

I don't think you suddenly develop a "killer instinct", you either have it or you don't.

Some players hate to lose and for others its okay.

 

[fahad203]

They could keep Campbell,Tavares and Matthews fot the core and trade the rest today and I wouldn’t blink. If Matthews didn’t like that he can get the fo too. Sandin and Dermott excluded too. I like both better than any vet we have

I'm still not sold on Campbell. He's better than Andersen but not sure of he's really that good enough to win you a series

I get a lot of Reimer vibe with him. He let in some soft goals. We didn't lose the series because of him but I thought he could have few of those saves and close the series out

Teams that have good killer instinct also teams that has solid D and goaltending

Something we working backwards in terms of building

Without a true number D, our team will never become a great team

 

[Stephen]

I don't think you suddenly develop a "killer instinct", you either have it or you don't.

Some players hate to lose and for others its okay.

The Leafs imprinted the program with a lot of veteran guys who were never particularly great playoff performers: Marleau, Tavares, Thornton, Simmonds, and even Spezza and going from an unpopular coach to a rookie coach has really meant having a leadership core that can’t credibly grab the core kids and drag them up.

 

[Doublerum1975]

Toronto plays hockey not to lose instead they need to play to win they sat back way to much vs Montreal

 

[LMFAO]

Time to get some real hockey players and cut some wanna be IG models.

 

[fahad203]

The Leafs imprinted the program with a lot of veteran guys who were never particularly great playoff performers: Marleau, Tavares, Thornton, Simmonds, and even Spezza and going from an unpopular coach to a rookie coach has really meant having a leadership core that can’t credibly grab the core kids and drag them up.

I don't think I have ever see a start to coaches career like Keefe.

Like other coaches were horrible in starting their career but I can't remember a coach ever getting a head start or put in a position to succeed and still failed

You are given a 60 goal scorer, a Bonifide center in Tavares, decent goal tending and punch of good scorers. Yet you find ways to lose back to back years to medicore teams

 

[HamiltonNHL]

You can tell Muzzin is so disappointed with the group.

His health is so fragile, he's often not around to help

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I'm still not sold on Campbell. He's better than Andersen but not sure of he's really that good enough to win you a series

He carried our 11M triplets.

at 1.65 AAV

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I'm still not sold on Campbell. He's better than Andersen but not sure of he's really that good enough to win you a series

I get a lot of Reimer vibe with him. He let in some soft goals. We didn't lose the series because of him but I thought he could have few of those saves and close the series out

Teams that have good killer instinct also teams that has solid D and goaltending

Something we working backwards in terms of building

Without a true number D, our team will never become a great team

That’s on K.D again then if you feel that. Dubas feeds you Kraft dinner and tells you it’s steak. Kraft Dinner and Shinnyhan. He likes skill now you know, doesn’t want toughness he says from his ivory tower. The quicker them two amateurs are fired the better

 

[Sinistril]

Methodology is flawed, obviously. Playoff rounds won on other teams is not a good IV for killer instinct. I'm also not convinced killer instinct is what Toronto lacks.

 

[fahad203]

He carried our 11M triplets.

at 1.65 AAV

He played well but he didn't carry anyone. If anyone carried the forwards it was Spezza and Nylander

He was good but good isn't good enough to win the series. Otherwise we would have moved on

There were no 11 million triplettes. JT was injured

 

[Menzinger]

I don't think I have ever see a start to coaches career like Keefe.

Like other coaches were horrible in starting their career but I can't remember a coach ever getting a head start or put in a position to succeed and still failed

You are given a 60 goal scorer, a Bonifide center in Tavares, decent goal tending and punch of good scorers. Yet you find ways to lose back to back years to medicore teams

Though this isn't quite fair to Keefe.

He took over a team mid-season that would later become disrupted due to a pandemic. He still had the team finish (under him) playing at a 103 pace. Next season is another weird one without a training camp, he wins the division but then disappoints in the post season.

I think Keefe opened himself to criticism in that Montreal series in particular but it hasn't exactly been a cakewalk situation for him. The guy is heading into his 3rd season as coach and hasn't even had a proper 82 game season + regular preseason/training camp with the team

 

[Stephen]

I don't think I have ever see a start to coaches career like Keefe.

Like other coaches were horrible in starting their career but I can't remember a coach ever getting a head start or put in a position to succeed and still failed

You are given a 60 goal scorer, a Bonifide center in Tavares, decent goal tending and punch of good scorers. Yet you find ways to lose back to back years to medicore teams

James Mirtle and Jonas Siegel were talking about Sheldon Keefe after the season and one of the interesting points that came up is when asked who is coaching influences were, Keefe didn't refer to other coaches in the game of hockey but back at Kyle Dubas as a big influence. So you're basically looking at a GM and coach who have built up some kind of unconventional hypothesis of how to play the game and are leaning on each other.

 

[socko]

James Mirtle and Jonas Siegel were talking about Sheldon Keefe after the season and one of the interesting points that came up is when asked who is coaching influences were, Keefe didn't refer to other coaches in the game of hockey but back at Kyle Dubas as a big influence. So you're basically looking at a GM and coach who have built up some kind of unconventional hypothesis of how to play the game and are leaning on each other.

The term for that is YES MAN. And that's why Keefe has the job.

 

[Arzak]

My take on killer instinct is that you either have it by this point or you never will.
These guys have been playing hockey at high levels since they were 6 years old.
If they haven’t learned to start on time and have a killer instinct they probably won’t ever get it

This.

How can you even talk about killer instinct if your players don't even bother to start games on time ( playoff games for that matter)... You can only speculate how much effort to details, training, sleep and diet they must have if they fail to start a game on time.


If I should bet money, is the squad asleep already getting ready for a game or out having fun? Captain Underpants will answer for us.

 

[Arzak]

James Mirtle and Jonas Siegel were talking about Sheldon Keefe after the season and one of the interesting points that came up is when asked who is coaching influences were, Keefe didn't refer to other coaches in the game of hockey but back at Kyle Dubas as a big influence. So you're basically looking at a GM and coach who have built up some kind of unconventional hypothesis of how to play the game and are leaning on each other.

True, it's like they own EA NHL game simulator and are sure their one winning scenario simulation just has to come true if tried enough times.

 

[yubbers]

You're complicating this......team culture is the issue. Lets recap.

MLSE hires Shanahan to be team president. Ok....no experience but a Hall of Famer known for his grit. Stevie Y worked out well.

Shanny and MLSE then decide to bring in Mike Babcock and commit to him long-term. A coach with about much pedigree as there is. Hard nose coach that don't tolerate no shit. And Lou Lam as GM. Getting exciting......

We tank and win the freaking lottery. Getting really exciting!

AM is as good as we hoped and we get back in the playoffs! Lou doing usual Lou things by creating structure and discipline. INstilling a hard-working, professional team culture This very likable team competes hard against the juggernauts that are Ovi and the Caps.

The team sets a franchise points record. Whatever Babcock and Lou are doing is clearly working. Lose a heartbreaker series to the Bruins while getting pushed around

Instead of holding onto Lou for 1 more year to handle the most important contracts this team has seen in decades......they opt to not ensure that for whatever insane reason (likely because they got bluffed by possibly losing Dubas to CO). So instead of going with the sure thing....they decide to roll the dice and gamble on a f***ing rookie GM.....that is the polar opposite of the coach we've committed to. That just set a franchise point record and got the team back to the playoffs 2 years in a row. Their relationship NEVER had a chance of working. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand Mike Babcock isn't gonna take orders from some woke, rookie GM that thinks he's reinvented how to do business. Can you blame him? We lose again to the Bruins after not adding any sandpaper to the line-up. Simmonds was available on the cheap that deadline too.

Of course, the Dubas Babcock relationship isn't working and Kyle decides to fire him after a slow start. Completing project 'Sabotage Your Original Gameplan that was Producing Results' Leaving us with a pair of dudes that have no NHL success as Kyle hires his buddy Sheldon. Didn't even look around.

So now the disciplined, professional, hard-working team culture Lou and Babcock instilled is gone. You have Dubas who hands out money like it's candy and will do anything to be your friend. Letting the inmates running the asylum. A bunch of young, rich celebrities now control the team culture.

We were heading in the right direction. Hiring Dubas created every single problem this organization has right now. This whole thing was so f***ing predictable. That's the worst part.

 

[yubbers]

Shanny and Dubas need to go. We can't move forward otherwise imho. We need to blow this up sadly. But MLSE once again seems steadfast on being completely incompetent and not willing to admit mistakes have been made. Like I said years ago.....Kyle will waste our AM years. Halfway there boys!

 

[Trapper]

You're complicating this......team culture is the issue. Lets recap.

MLSE hires Shanahan to be team president. Ok....no experience but a Hall of Famer known for his grit. Stevie Y worked out well.

Shanny and MLSE then decide to bring in Mike Babcock and commit to him long-term. A coach with about much pedigree as there is. Hard nose coach that don't tolerate no shit. And Lou Lam as GM. Getting exciting......

We tank and win the freaking lottery. Getting really exciting!

AM is as good as we hoped and we get back in the playoffs! Lou doing usual Lou things by creating structure and discipline. INstilling a hard-working, professional team culture This very likable team competes hard against the juggernauts that are Ovi and the Caps.

The team sets a franchise points record. Whatever Babcock and Lou are doing is clearly working. Lose a heartbreaker series to the Bruins while getting pushed around

Instead of holding onto Lou for 1 more year to handle the most important contracts this team has seen in decades......they opt to not ensure that for whatever insane reason (likely because they got bluffed by possibly losing Dubas to CO). So instead of going with the sure thing....they decide to roll the dice and gamble on a f***ing rookie GM.....that is the polar opposite of the coach we've committed to. That just set a franchise point record and got the team back to the playoffs 2 years in a row. Their relationship NEVER had a chance of working. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand Mike Babcock isn't gonna take orders from some woke, rookie GM that thinks he's reinvented how to do business. Can you blame him? We lose again to the Bruins after not adding any sandpaper to the line-up. Simmonds was available on the cheap that deadline too.

Of course, the Dubas Babcock relationship isn't working and Kyle decides to fire him after a slow start. Completing project 'Sabotage Your Original Gameplan that was Producing Results' Leaving us with a pair of dudes that have no NHL success as Kyle hires his buddy Sheldon. Didn't even look around.

So now the disciplined, professional, hard-working team culture Lou and Babcock instilled is gone. You have Dubas who hands out money like it's candy and will do anything to be your friend. Letting the inmates running the asylum. A bunch of young, rich celebrities now control the team culture.

We were heading in the right direction. Hiring Dubas created every single problem this organization has right now. This whole thing was so f***ing predictable. That's the worst part.

 

[Mess]

James Mirtle and Jonas Siegel were talking about Sheldon Keefe after the season and one of the interesting points that came up is when asked who is coaching influences were, Keefe didn't refer to other coaches in the game of hockey but back at Kyle Dubas as a big influence. So you're basically looking at a GM and coach who have built up some kind of unconventional hypothesis of how to play the game and are leaning on each other.

I believe the metaphor you're looking for is " a case of the blind leading the blind".

If you want to add Shanahan its the 3 blind mice running the show.

No guide rails in place of past success nor history at the NHL level.

 

[RoadWarrior]

I don't think I have ever see a start to coaches career like Keefe.

Like other coaches were horrible in starting their career but I can't remember a coach ever getting a head start or put in a position to succeed and still failed

You are given a 60 goal scorer, a Bonifide center in Tavares, decent goal tending and punch of good scorers. Yet you find ways to lose back to back years to medicore teams

Keefe was outcoached the last two playoffs just as Babcock was before him.

Without a decent coach this team will go nowhere.

 

[colchar]

You're complicating this......team culture is the issue. Lets recap.

MLSE hires Shanahan to be team president. Ok....no experience but a Hall of Famer known for his grit. Stevie Y worked out well.

Shanny and MLSE then decide to bring in Mike Babcock and commit to him long-term. A coach with about much pedigree as there is. Hard nose coach that don't tolerate no shit. And Lou Lam as GM. Getting exciting......

We tank and win the freaking lottery. Getting really exciting!

AM is as good as we hoped and we get back in the playoffs! Lou doing usual Lou things by creating structure and discipline. INstilling a hard-working, professional team culture This very likable team competes hard against the juggernauts that are Ovi and the Caps.

The team sets a franchise points record. Whatever Babcock and Lou are doing is clearly working. Lose a heartbreaker series to the Bruins while getting pushed around

Instead of holding onto Lou for 1 more year to handle the most important contracts this team has seen in decades......they opt to not ensure that for whatever insane reason (likely because they got bluffed by possibly losing Dubas to CO). So instead of going with the sure thing....they decide to roll the dice and gamble on a f***ing rookie GM.....that is the polar opposite of the coach we've committed to. That just set a franchise point record and got the team back to the playoffs 2 years in a row. Their relationship NEVER had a chance of working. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand Mike Babcock isn't gonna take orders from some woke, rookie GM that thinks he's reinvented how to do business. Can you blame him? We lose again to the Bruins after not adding any sandpaper to the line-up. Simmonds was available on the cheap that deadline too.

Of course, the Dubas Babcock relationship isn't working and Kyle decides to fire him after a slow start. Completing project 'Sabotage Your Original Gameplan that was Producing Results' Leaving us with a pair of dudes that have no NHL success as Kyle hires his buddy Sheldon. Didn't even look around.

So now the disciplined, professional, hard-working team culture Lou and Babcock instilled is gone. You have Dubas who hands out money like it's candy and will do anything to be your friend. Letting the inmates running the asylum. A bunch of young, rich celebrities now control the team culture.

We were heading in the right direction. Hiring Dubas created every single problem this organization has right now. This whole thing was so f***ing predictable. That's the worst part.

It won't happen but I'd love to see Shanny man up, admit that he made a mistake, and fire Spreadsheet Dubas. Fire Keefe too. Find another GM. Maybe grovel to Hunter and admit that he effed up there too, and hire a decent coach who will not let the kids run things. If they try, they get put in their place. If they don't learn from that, trade their asses.

 

[colchar]

Boston made their choice.
Bergeron was their identity not Thornton.
They moved him and used his cap to sign Chara. Identity piece no. 2.

We don’t have that lynchpin core player.
We have skilled individuals but no identity.

How do they get that?

They would have to make a big splash in the trade market by trading a piece of the core. I am fine with that, and would be happy to see them retool and create an identity around a special linchpin player. but realistically who goes and who could they get?

 

[Notsince67]

Methodology is flawed, obviously. Playoff rounds won on other teams is not a good IV for killer instinct. I'm also not convinced killer instinct is what Toronto lacks.

You are correct. The issue is the narrow system that the team is asked to play to. Same parallel as Tampas experience.

 

[Riellyfan04]

We need a real number 1 goalie. We aint winning with goalies that let is soft goals everytime