CL+league trophy barca have 3CL + 8 La liga. That makes 11 in total
Bayern have 1CL and 8 Bundesliga. 9 trophies intotal
Madrid 4CL and 2La ligas. 6 in total
SO, yes Barca is CLEARLY above everyone.
You're arguing that a team that won 2 CL titles in 10 years and made the semi a couple more times was CLEARLY above a team that won the CL 4 times and made the semis 8 consecutive times?
That's almost funny.
When it comes to measuring historic greatness, CL is more important than anything else.
It's the ONLY best-on-best competition, history remembers it most of all, and domestic trophies pale in comparison.
Doesn't take anything away from teams winning domestic leagues - but in the end, Barca's team makeup has been set up so they destroy lesser teams with more consistency while have a shot vs top teams - while RM was custom made for big games and big matches. Less consistency vs inferior opposition, but dominant in big matches (as proven by the 4 CLs).
There's a reason why everyone and their mum can remember the Milan teams of the late 80s/early 90s, the Ajax and Bayern teams of the 70s etc...
Yet at the same time, Borrusia Monchengladbach were absolutely amazing in the 70s, and noone knows about them - they never won the European Cup.
Real Madrid in the second half of the 80s was ridiculously dominant, won 5 La Ligas in a row, and were probably the best team in Europe - except they never won the EC, so barely anyone remembers it.
Since 2014, it was Madrid's era, what they did was historic and hadn't been done in 50 years.
CL is the most important competition, period. There's a reason why the superclubs consider their season a borderline failure if they lose out in the CL.
This season, as it looks right now, City and Liverpool are ahead of everyone else. But if they don't win the CL, in 5 years time noone will remember how good they looked.
I think the entire debate is pointless, and I'm sure some people with agree with one view or the other, but I'm completely baffled by anyone - even a diehard Messi fan - thinking the Barca was CLEARLY above everyone else in the last 10 years (especially last 8 or so), when they won only 2 CLs and RM won 4 in the meantime.