Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

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Peterson contract was really bad
I was ok with it at the time. Seemed a little steep but it seemed like $5M was what goalies were signing for around that time, and it was a short length than some others. He was coming off a good showing for USA, and was trending in the right direction.
I don't think he contract will be one the deters LA and still hope he turns things around after a bad year.
 
I know you are super smart and put tons of effort and thought into your posts unlike me....but you are beyond delusional if you don't think that EVERY organization's goal...EVERY year...is to make the playoffs.

No, I don't have any fancy stats to back it up.
This is simply not true.

Chicago is not trying to make the playoffs this year. Neither is San Jose, Arizona, Seattle, Anaheim. You have to be realistic about where you are, getting a Top 5 pick is more valuable for a franchise than chasing a 5-10% chance to make the playoffs.

Last year the Kings transitioned from not trying to make the playoffs to trying to. And they were successful at achieving that short term goal. That is why breaking in your hopeful future franchise player in the middle of a playoff race on a low-scoring team Instead of the year before on a team without playoff aspirations made no sense. Most of those teams over the years who broke in Top 2 picks were not playoff caliber teams and could afford to let the player take his lumps, the 2021-2022 Kings were not in that spot.

And they aren’t fancy stats, I don’t deal as much in fancy stats as some others here do. Some are relevant and some aren’t. Many of them can completely contradict each other, example you can find some advanced metrics that said Alex Turcotte was good in the NHL last year and some that say he was terrible. Hockey is very luck oriented and I don’t believe enough of the advanced stats, outside of PDO really account for that, but I think PDO can be a bit over the top many times. So no you won’t see me talking about all the ABCDEFG metrics.

I bet sports for a living using statistical model/analysis I or others created and use. For the NHL I use more traditional stats some of which I already mentioned for teams and players, and I try and factor in potential trends about the league (last year being very high scoring was exploited by many in-season bettors before the books caught on). This year I expect a small dip from last years scoring totals due to improved defenses from
A handful of teams and overall better health from goaltenders and defenders. But not a return to what it was a few years ago and certainly not a return to what itwas a decade ago. The NHL (and all the other sports) know that people want offense, speed and fast play and that is not going away because low-scoring grinding hockey is a turn off to casual fans. I get crap here for hyping up skating and to some extent skill above all else, but that is where the league is going. This is not a slow players league, you have to be able to skate in the modern NHL. If you want to know why a man who won 2 Stanley Cup’s 10 and 8 years ago can’t find work look no further than that. DL hockey is dead and it’s never coming back, and the people making the decisions for teams know it.

I don’t believe I am any smarter than anyone else and have had plenty of losing seasons in the various sports leagues. But I do put in a lot of research and believe statistics and historical precedent completely trump some of the ways that others choose to look at the team. I think fans get to married to their own players and prospects and it causes an inability to see troubling things about said players. But in fairness to Blake I think he did see those troubling things with some players and it caused him to go in a different way (even if I disagree with the way)

And I was not trying to dump on last years Kings. As I’ve said numerous times the goal last year was clearly the playoffs and they achieved that goal and Blake and TM deserve a ton of credit for setting a goal and achieving it.

But you can certainly challenge the choices made if you are playing the long-game, which many here are as this forum is filled with fans who have been here for 10-15-20 years and don’t need instant gratification. I think most here would be fine with 3-4 more years of sucking if it meant 6 years of SC contention.

But using the historical thing again (sorry) it’s just extremely uncommon for teams in the modern NHL to have sustained success without drafting and developing multiple star to superstar caliber players. If the goal is to be the early 00’s Kings and be a perennial playoff team who maybe scares a high end team in the playoffs, then nothing wrong with Blake’s construction. But I just don’t see how the Kings are going to build a Stanley Cup caliber team, which should be the goal. And the most proven way to do that is to hit your draft picks out of the park.

For the Kings picks, the league trended away from one high pick the same way MLB went away from singles hitters and the NFL went away from plodding running backs, another high pick was just a statistical failure, not a bad player but not a foundational piece you need to have from that spot if you are going to transition to a contender as soon as the Kings did. So that leaves you with 2-3 players at the start of the transition to trying to contend who **MIGHT** be stars. A center with 6 games NHL experience, a winger with 1 game and a defenseman with 0. This is just so much different from the previous LA transition out of rebuild which whether you think it happened with Ryan Smyth or with Mike Richards, it happened with young players who had already developed into star players. The same was true in Tampa, Pittsburgh and Chicago, that makes up the four most successful teams of the post lockout, with Colorado (another team who drafted and developed multiple stars ready to join)

With the poor ROI on two key-picks the Kings would have increased their chances of winning a SC in this decade by bottoming out last year and this year and trying to accumulate more picks that hopefully could return better value than the previous ones while also letting QB, a player with star potential develop in a situation more conducive to development, which certainly last year was not. In addition you add two more high picks which increase your chances of adding star players that are basically a requirement for being a contender.

I understand you value the business side of it (which is a very valid take) and were eager for a return to meaningful games in LA for the first time in 6-7 years. I get that. I am just saying for those who value winning a championship there just isn’t very much historical evidence of a team ever being built this way and producing a Stanley Cup caliber return.
 
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But every time you ice your team, you are looking to win the game. What's the purpose of winning?

The Kings have already went through the 'rebuild'....whether the internet experts believe it was done in the 'right' way makes zero difference. At the end of the day, goal is to win games which hopefully equates to a playoff spot. Some teams, like the Kings, are looking to add talent to the team without giving up key prospects they've acquired during the rebuild and then slowly integrating them into full time players. They are looking to do ALL of this while, yes, as playoffs being the goal.

No team is 'tanking'...that would require the players to buy into a concept of losing...that just doesn't happen.
Well I just gave you examples of teams trying to lose. The Kings are not trying to lose. You could say the Willie D. season they were throwing in the towel.
Of course the players are trying to win. Kane and Toews want out of Chicago. Doughty said he wanted out of being on a rebuilding team.
If management wants to tank they ice a team full of players that just arent very good. Even if the players try to win they wont. Usually a tanking team is full of mediocre players with little accountability.
 
Well I just gave you examples of teams trying to lose. The Kings are not trying to lose. You could say the Willie D. season they were throwing in the towel.
Of course the players are trying to win. Kane and Toews want out of Chicago. Doughty said he wanted out of being on a rebuilding team.
If management wants to tank they ice a team full of players that just arent very good. Even if the players try to win they wont. Usually a tanking team is full of mediocre players with little accountability.
I get what you are saying...but I will say this, how many years is an organization going to be OK with this methodology? The Kings had gone 3 consecutive seasons being out of the playoffs, at some point your goal has to be to turn the page for the sake of business.

Last season, my feeling was that Blake's job could of been in jeopardy. The Kings had to at LEAST been playing meaningful games in March to show progress. Well, we all know they accomplished more than that.
 
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You would have been much better off simply saying "most teams" or even "90-95% of teams" each year. But a blanket EVERY team EVERY year -- nope.
 
I get what you are saying...but I will say this, how many years is an organization going to be OK with this methodology? The Kings had gone 3 consecutive seasons being out of the playoffs, at some point your goal has to be to turn the page for the sake of business
Good question,

The team should be ready to turn the page when they have confidence that their youth is good enough to take that next step and where they can be confident of them being the best players on the team going forward.

In 2009 when the Kings traded for Ryan Smyth which to me was the signal they were playoff ready they had a 22 year old 1C, a 19 year old 1D a 23 year old starting goaltender a 24 year old power-forward captain on the wing and a 22 year old #2 defenseman.

They had other pieces still developing like Simmonds, Voynov and Martinez who would ultimately by contributors but the foundation was laid and there was no doubt about it.

Do you see any parallel between that team and this team that felt it was ready to turn the page?
 
This is simply not true.

Chicago is not trying to make the playoffs this year. Neither is San Jose, Arizona, Seattle, Anaheim. You have to be realistic about where you are, getting a Top 5 pick is more valuable for a franchise than chasing a 5-10% chance to make the playoffs.

Last year the Kings transitioned from not trying to make the playoffs to trying to. And they were successful at achieving that short term goal. That is why breaking in your hopeful future franchise player in the middle of a playoff race on a low-scoring team Instead of the year before on a team without playoff aspirations made no sense. Most of those teams over the years who broke in Top 2 picks were not playoff caliber teams and could afford to let the player take his lumps, the 2021-2022 Kings were not in that spot.

And they aren’t fancy stats, I don’t deal as much in fancy stats as some others here do. Some are relevant and some aren’t. Many of them can completely contradict each other, example you can find some advanced metrics that said Alex Turcotte was good in the NHL last year and some that say he was terrible. Hockey is very luck oriented and I don’t believe enough of the advanced stats, outside of PDO really account for that, but I think PDO can be a bit over the top many times. So no you won’t see me talking about all the ABCDEFG metrics.

I bet sports for a living using statistical model/analysis I or others created and use. For the NHL I use more traditional stats some of which I already mentioned for teams and players, and I try and factor in potential trends about the league (last year being very high scoring was exploited by many in-season bettors before the books caught on). This year I expect a small dip from last years scoring totals due to improved defenses from
A handful of teams and overall better health from goaltenders and defenders. But not a return to what it was a few years ago and certainly not a return to what itwas a decade ago. The NHL (and all the other sports) know that people want offense, speed and fast play and that is not going away because low-scoring grinding hockey is a turn off to casual fans. I get crap here for hyping up skating and to some extent skill above all else, but that is where the league is going. This is not a slow players league, you have to be able to skate in the modern NHL. If you want to know why a man who won 2 Stanley Cup’s 10 and 8 years ago can’t find work look no further than that. DL hockey is dead and it’s never coming back, and the people making the decisions for teams know it.

I don’t believe I am any smarter than anyone else and have had plenty of losing seasons in the various sports leagues. But I do put in a lot of research and believe statistics and historical precedent completely trump some of the ways that others choose to look at the team. I think fans get to married to their own players and prospects and it causes an inability to see troubling things about said players. But in fairness to Blake I think he did see those troubling things with some players and it caused him to go in a different way (even if I disagree with the way)

And I was not trying to dump on last years Kings. As I’ve said numerous times the goal last year was clearly the playoffs and they achieved that goal and Blake and TM deserve a ton of credit for setting a goal and achieving it.

But you can certainly challenge the choices made if you are playing the long-game, which many here are as this forum is filled with fans who have been here for 10-15-20 years and don’t need instant gratification. I think most here would be fine with 3-4 more years of sucking if it meant 6 years of SC contention.

But using the historical thing again (sorry) it’s just extremely uncommon for teams in the modern NHL to have sustained success without drafting and developing multiple star to superstar caliber players. If the goal is to be the early 00’s Kings and be a perennial playoff team who maybe scares a high end team in the playoffs, then nothing wrong with Blake’s construction. But I just don’t see how the Kings are going to build a Stanley Cup caliber team, which should be the goal. And the most proven way to do that is to hit your draft picks out of the park.

For the Kings picks, the league trended away from one high pick the same way MLB went away from singles hitters and the NFL went away from plodding running backs, another high pick was just a statistical failure, not a bad player but not a foundational piece you need to have from that spot if you are going to transition to a contender as soon as the Kings did. So that leaves you with 2-3 players at the start of the transition to trying to contend who **MIGHT** be stars. A center with 6 games NHL experience, a winger with 1 game and a defenseman with 0. This is just so much different from the previous LA transition out of rebuild which whether you think it happened with Ryan Smyth or with Mike Richards, it happened with young players who had already developed into star players. The same was true in Tampa, Pittsburgh and Chicago, that makes up the four most successful teams of the post lockout, with Colorado (another team who drafted and developed multiple stars ready to join)

With the poor ROI on two key-picks the Kings would have increased their chances of winning a SC in this decade by bottoming out last year and this year and trying to accumulate more picks that hopefully could return better value than the previous ones while also letting QB, a player with star potential develop in a situation more conducive to development, which certainly last year was not. In addition you add two more high picks which increase your chances of adding star players that are basically a requirement for being a contender.

I understand you value the business side of it (which is a very valid take) and were eager for a return to meaningful games in LA for the first time in 6-7 years. I get that. I am just saying for those who value winning a championship there just isn’t very much historical evidence of a team ever being built this way and producing a Stanley Cup caliber return.

All that.....and honestly I think you guys were talking two different things,

Herby is right, FRANCHISES make decisions based on....a lot of things, tanking is one of those decisions...

AXL is right, because no player in any competitive sport....plays not to win....they are always out there to win...

And I will read the rest later....
 
You would have been much better off simply saying "most teams" or even "90-95% of teams" each year. But a blanket EVERY team EVERY year -- nope.
True, but I guess my point was that if they had the ability to do so, that would be their goal EVERY year. I get that some teams are facing reality with the roster that is constructed, but the goal EVERY year is to make your team better one way or another. The reason to get better? Win and make the playoffs.
 
Do you see any parallel between that team and this team that felt it was ready to turn the page?
Great question, just not sure it would fair to try and compare the two. Back then you had some up and coming conrnerstone pieces -- now you have those same pieces with the realization that their expiration dates are on the horizon. I think the rebuilds were two totally different approaches.

How many times prior to last offseason was the general question asked 'when is Blake going to stop hoarding picks, drafting players and start transitioning this quantity to quality'? Well, he answered that question...the time was last offseason when he acquired Danault, Arviddson...and most recently Fiala.
 
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But every time you ice your team, you are looking to win the game. What's the purpose of winning?

The Kings have already went through the 'rebuild'....whether the internet experts believe it was done in the 'right' way makes zero difference. At the end of the day, goal is to win games which hopefully equates to a playoff spot. Some teams, like the Kings, are looking to add talent to the team without giving up key prospects they've acquired during the rebuild and then slowly integrating them into full time players. They are looking to do ALL of this while, yes, as playoffs being the goal.

No team is 'tanking'...that would require the players to buy into a concept of losing...that just doesn't happen.

All that.....and honestly I think you guys were talking two different things,

Herby is right, FRANCHISES make decisions based on....a lot of things, tanking is one of those decisions...

AXL is right, because no player in any competitive sport....plays not to win....they are always out there to win...

And I will read the rest later....


Yeah no PLAYER in any league anywhere is TRYING to lose (outside of Pete Rose-ing themselves or something).

But management sets up the team, and can set them up to fail spectacularly

I think most would agree there.
 
But management sets up the team, and can set them up to fail spectacularly

I think most would agree there.
Ok, but for how long? What is the end goal? To get a top 5 pick for 5 years in a row? Something like that?

Is it so far out of reach that ownership gave Blake the permission to suck in his first 3 years -- which means, trade off what you can, acquire as many picks as possible, draft as high as you are able....then by year 4 there needs to be a different direction? At what point, is the right time, to change directions? It might be as simple as it being a business decision --
 
Otteninger has a lower career NHL save % than Cal did when he was signed.
Did he tho lmao

In 35 games, Petersen posted a 9-18-5 record with a .911 save percentage and 2.89 goals-against average.

Kings got bent over on petersen and there was those who thought it was good. Lol
 
Did he tho lmao

In 35 games, Petersen posted a 9-18-5 record with a .911 save percentage and 2.89 goals-against average.

Kings got bent over on petersen and there was those who thought it was good. Lol
Otteninger currently has a career sv % of .913. Petersen had a career sv% of .916 when he signed last year.
 
But you can certainly challenge the choices made if you are playing the long-game, which many here are as this forum is filled with fans who have been here for 10-15-20 years and don’t need instant gratification. I think most here would be fine with 3-4 more years of sucking if it meant 6 years of SC contention.
I understand you value the business side of it (which is a very valid take) and were eager for a return to meaningful games in LA for the first time in 6-7 years. I get that. I am just saying for those who value winning a championship there just isn’t very much historical evidence of a team ever being built this way and producing a Stanley Cup caliber return.
Nope. 6 years of no playoff wins was a lot to swallow. 3-4 more years of sucking would have done me in.

I wished there was some magical formula for winning a Stanley Cup. I'd love to know what it is. Right now I'm pretty happy with watching entertaining and competitive hockey. If the Kings haven't gotten out of the second round in the next three years, then I'll admit you were right.
 
Teams try to lose spectacularly

Look no further than Blackhawks this off-season
 
Otteninger currently has a career sv % of .913. Petersen had a career sv% of .916 when he signed last year.
You're seriously factoring in the few games he started before signing last year? He was a .911 with a real workload. They signed him big and he responded with a .895. An .895 with 3 shutouts. He's going to have to step it up.
 
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