Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[TruKingFan]

If we're say 30 games into the season, and Byfield hasn't looked any better while playing 3rd line center, still struggling, what will the Kings do?

What should they do if that happens?

So the Kings success this upcoming season is predicated upon QB “looking any better” playing 3C?

 

[Lt Dan]

Byfield is long term, but it's super important that he takes a Jolly Green Giant step forward.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

We saw a guy who was the best player on the ice before smashing his leg, and came back and was the best King on the ice in a game vs. Colorado before getting dicked all around and losing his mojo. I'm confident that, with health, he'll be surprising a ton of posters here.

Happy 20th Birthday kid!

 

[Herby]

So the Kings success this upcoming season is predicated upon QB “looking any better” playing 3C?

That is not what he said. The Kings had a fine season last year with QB looking lost most nights, and this year they have a better team with the return of Doughty and the addition of Fiala. The Kings could easily have a fantastic 2023 season and QB could continue to go down a path that is not optimal for a player taken that high.

He is simply asking what happens around the turn of the calendar if QB looks like he did last year, hopefully that is not the case but it's a valid discussion to have since QB is the last of the high pick centers left who we can realistically say could be a 1C. We could also discuss "What is the Kings ceiling as a team if QB explodes", because that is a possible range of outcomes as well.

Peopling bringing up the AHL, that is a scary thought because Top 3 picks who end up in the AHL usually do not turn out well. Hopefully that is not a path the Kings consider with QB, might as well just trade him at that point.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Yeah, I don’t see Calgary back in the POs…
Oilers
Kings
Canucks.. unless Vegas gets a real G, they’re DOA

That's going too far with Calgary. Are they 111pts, four 40g scorers, and two 100pt players good? Probabky not, but it's a legit roster. They're easily in the mix with the rest of the Pac.

And after last year with Doughty missing half the season + playoffs, and the idiot Kings of all teams still having some semblance of success, I don't get how anyone can write Vegas off that quickly. Give it a second before dancing on that grave.

 

[Stimpythecat]

Calgary is still good but I do think not as good as last season.

Improvements frm division teams, retooling with older players, career years from the old core all at the same time, and insane health even from their older brittle players like Tanev. Brittle as glass Tanev didn't miss a game!

 

[Schmooley]

So the Kings success this upcoming season is predicated upon QB “looking any better” playing 3C?

The success of next season is not predicated on Byfield looking any better. But the next decade is predicated on Byfield taking all the steps necessary to become a 1c over the next couple years.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

That is not what he said. The Kings had a fine season last year with QB looking lost most nights, and this year they have a better team with the return of Doughty and the addition of Fiala. The Kings could easily have a fantastic 2023 season and QB could continue to go down a path that is not optimal for a player taken that high.

He is simply asking what happens around the turn of the calendar if QB looks like he did last year, hopefully that is not the case but it's a valid discussion to have since QB is the last of the high pick centers left who we can realistically say could be a 1C. We could also discuss "What is the Kings ceiling as a team if QB explodes", because that is a possible range of outcomes as well.

Peopling bringing up the AHL, that is a scary thought because Top 3 picks who end up in the AHL usually do not turn out well. Hopefully that is not a path the Kings consider with QB, might as well just trade him at that point.

If around the turn of the year QB isn't progressing, you would have to think at least one of the other kids could function at 3C, be it Vilardi, Turcotte, Kupari, JAD, even Thomas if they're really hurting. If they're ALL failing, we're f***ed anyway, and all the criticisms and questions are coming to fruition.

That's going too far with Calgary. Are they 111pts, four 40g scorers, and two 100pt players good? Probabky not, but it's a legit roster. They're easily in the mix with the rest of the Pac.

And after last year with Doughty missing half the season + playoffs, and the idiot Kings of all teams still having some semblance of success, I don't get how anyone can write Vegas off that quickly. Give it a second before dancing on that grave.

Yeah I think people are relying too much on last year's results without context frankly. Healthy Eichel and most of a healthy roster and that team has something to prove again. And I think everyone is really overlooking Logan Thompson, especially given people are going "well their starting goalie sucks" and it's like did no one notice how bad Lehner was last year?

If we're talking about regression to the mean, Calgary stands to sink, VGK stands to rise.

 

[KINGS17]

That is not what he said. The Kings had a fine season last year with QB looking lost most nights, and this year they have a better team with the return of Doughty and the addition of Fiala. The Kings could easily have a fantastic 2023 season and QB could continue to go down a path that is not optimal for a player taken that high.

He is simply asking what happens around the turn of the calendar if QB looks like he did last year, hopefully that is not the case but it's a valid discussion to have since QB is the last of the high pick centers left who we can realistically say could be a 1C. We could also discuss "What is the Kings ceiling as a team if QB explodes", because that is a possible range of outcomes as well.

Peopling bringing up the AHL, that is a scary thought because Top 3 picks who end up in the AHL usually do not turn out well. Hopefully that is not a path the Kings consider with QB, might as well just trade him at that point.

The Kings are on the right path if Byfield takes a healthy chunk of Kopitar's minutes next season, especially his PP time. McLellan is going to have to make a conscious decision to give Byfield a chance to have minutes early in the season without necessarily getting the best results for this particular team's season.

The Kings have a 20-year old center they took with the #2 overall pick in a draft. It's time to get serious about developing this kid for the role he was drafted to fill. IMO, that means playing with Fiala on his wing.

 

[Herby]

The Kings are on the right path if Byfield takes a healthy chunk of Kopitar's minutes next season, especially his PP time. McLellan is going to have to make a conscious decision to give Byfield a chance to have minutes early in the season without necessarily getting the best results for this particular team's season.

The Kings have a 20-year old center they took with the #2 overall pick in a draft. It's time to get serious about developing this kid for the role he was drafted to fill. IMO, that means playing with Fiala on his wing.

It's tough to blame TMac to much, with the moves made last summer the Kings were in a clear win-now mode and with how QB looked last year increasing his minutes was not going to help the team win. When TMac was told to focus on youth they gave Vilardi an entire season of very underwhelming hockey. Had QB been given that opportunity in 20-21 instead of Vilardi (who should have been in the minors learning to play RW) things are different.

The Kings are at least a year behind, and yes a lot of that time has to be made back this season or the risk for this being a failure goes up significantly. The ridiculous decision to have an 18 year old #2 pick playing in practice facilities in a watered down AHL in 20-21 carried over to last season where QB looked like a player who gained nothing from the year before. Had QB been developed the way most other teams in the same situation would have developed him we are probably at a different spot. This is why development choices are just as important as entry draft choices. The Kings basically wasted the age 18 season of their #2 pick in 2020 and the age 19 season of their #5 pick in 2019. And then you add in Vilardi's lost time (obv not the Kings fault) and it's just tough to look at as a fan.

I truly think had QB been an NHL'er at 18 in a no-pressure situation he would have taken steps last year as 19 year old where we wouldn't be talking about concerns but would be more talking about a potentially big break through.

 

[DoktorJeep]

If Byfield hasn’t scored 2 goals by game 5 and the Kings are under .500, then Lizotte is the 3C till at least the turn of the calendar.

 

[KINGS17]

It's tough to blame TMac to much, with the moves made last summer the Kings were in a clear win-now mode and with how QB looked last year increasing his minutes was not going to help the team win. When TMac was told to focus on youth they gave Vilardi an entire season of very underwhelming hockey. Had QB been given that opportunity in 20-21 instead of Vilardi (who should have been in the minors learning to play RW) things are different.

The Kings are at least a year behind, and yes a lot of that time has to be made back this season or the risk for this being a failure goes up significantly. The ridiculous decision to have an 18 year old #2 pick playing in practice facilities in a watered down AHL in 20-21 carried over to last season where QB looked like a player who gained nothing from the year before. Had QB been developed the way most other teams in the same situation would have developed him we are probably at a different spot. This is why development choices are just as important as entry draft choices. The Kings basically wasted the age 18 season of their #2 pick in 2020 and the age 19 season of their #5 pick in 2019. And then you add in Vilardi's lost time (obv not the Kings fault) and it's just tough to look at as a fan.

I truly think had QB been an NHL'er at 18 in a no-pressure situation he would have taken steps last year as 19 year old where we wouldn't be talking about concerns but would be more talking about a potentially big break through.

The question needs to be asked: Why are the Kings in the win now mode? They aren't going to win jack with this roster, and with several teams in the Western Conference being superior to the Kings.

I am not very concerned about the difference between being 19 and 20 years old for Byfield, but another season like the last one has to be viewed as stagnation, and that is always a bad sign for a prospect. The Kings need to find out what they have in this kid, standings be damned, because as I said, they are not going to win anything of real importance anyway if it is done riding on the backs of Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick.

If they make the playoffs with guys like Byfield, Kaliyev, Grundstrom, and Petersen making significant contributions, then they will have accomplished something worthwhile this coming season.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

The Kings are at least a year behind,

HUH? The team that wasn't even supposed to make the playoffs last year are a year behind?

 

[Herby]

HUH? The team that wasn't even supposed to make the playoffs last year are a year behind?

HUH? I was clearly talking about the development of QB.

When you make a poor decision and gain nothing out of the age 18 season you are at best a year behind and at worst have damaged or even ruined the overall development.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

HUH? I was clearly talking about the development of QB.

When you make a poor decision and gain nothing out of the age 18 season you are at best a year behind and at worst have damaged or even ruined the overall development.

ahh, got it...although I would say your being overly dramatic re: Byfield.

 

[Herby]

ahh, got it...although I would say your being overly dramatic re: Byfield.

You think its typical for #2 overall picks to look that bad in the NHL. You think it's typical that entering year 3 you are asking this many questions about a #2 overall pick? It is not typical, and that is why it's being discussed here.

I don't think so on the dramatic thing. The age 18, 19, 20 seasons are the most important years when it comes to defining what type of player someone is going to be. And the Kings continue to make completely unorthodox development decisions with players in those age groups that they used very high picks on. And then we wonder why these kids underwhelm.

What did QB, Turcotte and Kupari gain from being in the AHL as teenagers?
Were these traditional development paths?
Have these paths helped get them to become quality NHL players quicker or slower than traditional paths?

 

[Herby]

If Byfield hasn’t scored 2 goals by game 5 and the Kings are under .500, then Lizotte is the 3C till at least the turn of the calendar.

No offense man, because your takes are normally good, but this is a bit of a ridiculous take.

Byfield was called up to the NHL after an ok (but not great) stretch in the AHL. And he then played a half season of mostly miserable hockey and was not sent back down at any point.

I don't know how one can say he had to prove anything to be given a chance in the NHL last year. If that take were reality QB would not have made the 10, 20, 30 and certainly not the 40 game mark.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

You think its typical for #2 overall picks to look that bad in the NHL. You think it's typical that entering year 3 you are asking this many questions about a #2 overall pick? It is not typical, and that is why it's being discussed here.

I don't think so on the dramatic thing. The age 18, 19, 20 seasons are the most important years when it comes to defining what type of player someone is going to be. And the Kings continue to make completely unorthodox development decisions with players in those age groups that they used very high picks on. And then we wonder why these kids underwhelm.

What did QB, Turcotte and Kupari gain from being in the AHL as teenagers?
Were these traditional development paths?
Have these paths helped get them to become quality NHL players quicker or slower than traditional paths?

Say it with me.....cmon....JACK HUGHES.....

No offense man, because your takes are normally good, but this is a bit of a ridiculous take.

Byfield was called up to the NHL after an ok (but not great) stretch in the AHL. And he then played a half season of mostly miserable hockey and was not sent back down at any point.

I don't know how one can say he had to prove anything to be given a chance in the NHL last year. If that take were reality QB would not have made the 10, 20, 30 and certainly not the 40 game mark.

That was sarcasm bud lol.....even I caught that one

 

[Herby]

Say it with me.....cmon....JACK HUGHES.....

I must have missed the part where Jack Hughes wasted a year of development playing in the AHL as an 18 year old. The Devils (like the Kings) had that option with a player who was not ready to be a real contributor in the NHL at 18 and chose not too, who has had better results?

Jack Hughes was actually the exact model the Kings should have used for QB, thanks for proving the point.

Season 1 - Learn to be an NHL'er in year 1. Make mistakes and take lumps in a no-pressure situation

Season 2 - Take the next step to be comfortable and show clear signs of what is to come

Season 3 - Become a star and commit to him as the face of the franchise


How is this in any way similar to what the Kings have done?

Season 1 - Play in watered down AHL in practice rinks. Something almost unheard of for Top 3 picks.

Season 2 - Expect him to learn and take lumps in the heat of a playoff race in high-pressure situations.

Season 3 - We will see, but if he is literally half as good as Hughes (44G, 94Pt pace) in year 3 people will be doing backflips here.

I'm absolutely shocked with the results we have seen so far that you continue to support this early rush to the AHL for all of our prospects. I assume you think the Devils made a mistake in how they handled both Hughes brothers, since it was the exact opposite of how the Kings handled two players taken with similar picks? And not to take anything away from the Devils, but all they did is do what basically any other team not named the Kings would have done with both players.

 

[KINGS17]

No offense man, because your takes are normally good, but this is a bit of a ridiculous take.

Byfield was called up to the NHL after an ok (but not great) stretch in the AHL. And he then played a half season of mostly miserable hockey and was not sent back down at any point.

I don't know how one can say he had to prove anything to be given a chance in the NHL last year. If that take were reality QB would not have made the 10, 20, 30 and certainly not the 40 game mark.

I took that post as being criticism of McLellan, and what @DoktorJeep expects the coach to do, if Byfield is not having success early on in the season.

 

[Herby]

I took that post as being criticism of McLellan, and what @DoktorJeep expects the coach to do, if Byfield is not having success early on in the season.

It's kind of like the lame narrative that certain star players around the league would not be playing for the Kings when the Kings have been near the top of the league for GP by players 20 and under during the Blake years.

It was way more Blake's fault for QB's struggles last year than it was TM's fault. The Kings were trying to make the playoffs last season, it was not the time to be breaking in a raw player who is supposed to be the future of the franchise. They had a glorious chance to put QB in that spot the season before and instead had a guy with no-NHL future as a center playing center while QB gained nothing in the AHL. I just don't know how people like Axl and GBH can just deny that this was a massive blunder, one only has to look at where each player sits two years from that decision, Vilardi isn't even playing C anymore and QB had 2 very underwhelming seasons. I just struggle how on Earth people continue to pin this on Todd. If QB had gotten as many minutes as people here wanted (at the expense of AK and PD) it's very likely the Kings miss the playoffs. Todd was mandated to make the playoffs last season, it was not a development year like the year before was.

Now if your asking me if I think being in win-now mode last season, which obviously hurt the development of certain players and limited the chances to draft more high-end pieces was the right move? I don't think it was, I would have rather let younger players play more and either rise to the occasion or be bad enough where I am getting another top 1-8 pick last year and this year. But they went in a different situation and I am just commenting on that, once again TM was not the one making these decisions he is just given a roster by Blake and told "Go make the playoffs"

 

[KINGS17]

It's kind of like the lame narrative that certain star players around the league would not be playing for the Kings when the Kings have been near the top of the league for GP by players 20 and under during the Blake years.

It was way more Blake's fault for QB's struggles last year than it was TM's fault. The Kings were trying to make the playoffs last season, it was not the time to be breaking in a raw player who is supposed to be the future of the franchise. They had a glorious chance to put QB in that spot the season before and instead had a guy with no-NHL future as a center playing center while QB gained nothing in the AHL. I just struggle how on Earth people continue to pin this on Todd. If QB had gotten as many minutes as people here wanted (at the expense of AK and PD) it's very likely the Kings miss the playoffs. Todd was mandated to make the playoffs last season, it was not a development year like the year before was.

Now if your asking me if I think being in win-now mode last season, which obviously hurt the development of certain players and limited the chances to draft more high-end pieces was the right move? I don't think it was, I would have rather let younger players play more and either rise to the occasion or be bad enough where I am getting another top 1-8 pick last year and this year. But they went in a different situation and I am just commenting on that, once again TM was not the one making these decisions he is just given a roster by Blake and told "Go make the playoffs"

I tend to agree that Byfield's stagnation up to this point is mostly on Blake, and some of it is due to injuries. However, I think there are several posters who are frustrated with Byfield's ice time and the situations in which he is deployed by McLellan when Byfield is in the lineup.

McLellan may have been given directions to make the playoffs, or else. If this is the case, Robitaille and Blake shoulder even more of the blame. I think its a fool's errand to "just make the playoffs" while having to ride Kopitar, Danault, Quick, etc. to do it.

Injuries have fast-forwarded the development of some of the defensemen. Perhaps a similar circumstance would be useful for the development of forwards? It may be the only thing that forces the issue with this management team.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I must have missed the part where Jack Hughes wasted a year of development playing in the AHL as an 18 year old. The Devils (like the Kings) had that option with a player who was not ready to be a real contributor in the NHL at 18 and chose not too, who has had better results?

Jack Hughes was actually the exact model the Kings should have used for QB, thanks for proving the point.

Season 1 - Learn to be an NHL'er in year 1. Make mistakes and take lumps in a no-pressure situation

Season 2 - Take the next step to be comfortable and show clear signs of what is to come

Season 3 - Become a star and commit to him as the face of the franchise


How is this in any way similar to what the Kings have done?

Season 1 - Play in watered down AHL in practice rinks. Something almost unheard of for Top 3 picks.

Season 2 - Expect him to learn and take lumps in the heat of a playoff race in high-pressure situations.

Season 3 - We will see, but if he is literally half as good as Hughes (44G, 94Pt pace) in year 3 people will be doing backflips here.

I'm absolutely shocked with the results we have seen so far that you continue to support this early rush to the AHL for all of our prospects. I assume you think the Devils made a mistake in how they handled both Hughes brothers, since it was the exact opposite of how the Kings handled two players taken with similar picks? And not to take anything away from the Devils, but all they did is do what basically any other team not named the Kings would have done with both players.

I was referencing your very first line......Hughes looked horrible his 1st year.....

As far as early rush yadda yadda....each prospect is different, and should have different paths to development, you have prospects who can take the pressure and shine, and you have ones that crack.....this isn't anything new, it's been this way since the draft started....you can literally go back through every single draft and see it......

 

[Kudelski37]

If around the turn of the year QB isn't progressing, you would have to think at least one of the other kids could function at 3C, be it Vilardi, Turcotte, Kupari, JAD, even Thomas if they're really hurting. If they're ALL failing, we're f***ed anyway, and all the criticisms and questions are coming to fruition.




Yeah I think people are relying too much on last year's results without context frankly. Healthy Eichel and most of a healthy roster and that team has somethingt to prove again. And I think everyone is really overlooking Logan Thompson, especially given people are going "well their starting goalie sucks" and it's like did no one notice how bad Lehner was last year?

If we're talking about regression to the mean, Calgary stands to sink, VGK stands to rise.

I think this overestimates Vegas. They were close to making the playoffs despite injuries. However, injuries were an issue for everyone in the division besides Calgary and Seattle. I see that as a draw.

Thompson was good (.914 sv%) in roughly 20 games. It isn't a big jump from Lehner at .907%. It translates to 9 extra saves if applied to the shots Lehner faced. Brossoit was the weak link with .895%. Despite this, Vegas had a better sv% than LA. Brossoit and Hutchinson will likely combine for 20+ games without a trade. Brossoit is coming off hip surgery so he likely won't be ready for the start of the season. . Thompson is all but technically a rookie and being asked to carry the workload. I'm sure he will be a good starter in the future, but not sure if he is ready for 60+ starts yet where every divisional opponent thinks they can make the playoffs. If he isn't ready, there isn't anything on the roster to help out.

Vegas lost ~40 goals losing an injured Pacioretty and healthy Dadonov. Stone had back surgery to fix one of his many injuries from last year. Does he fully recover? Does Eichel stay healthy or do issues resurface? If healthy, they might make up the 40 goals lost mentioned above. Note, Stone and Eichel scored 23 goals for Vegas last year so they would need to combine for over 60 goals to make for the losses mentioned above. However, the lack of forward depth makes them easier to matchup against. Does Stephenson's deal with the devil end this year or does he keep putting up points.

Defense is older so injuries wouldn't be a surprise.

This division is such a crap shoot. If Vegas has Calgary's luck with injuries and the rest of the division struggles with injuries they could win almost by default. If everyone is equal with injuries, I don't see Vegas making the playoffs unless the Pacific takes both wild card spots. If Vegas struggles early, do they quit and finish near the bottom? I'm pessimistic about their chances for the playoffs.

 

[Herby]

I was referencing your very first line......Hughes looked horrible his 1st year.....

As far as early rush yadda yadda....each prospect is different, and should have different paths to development, you have prospects who can take the pressure and shine, and you have ones that crack.....this isn't anything new, it's been this way since the draft started....you can literally go back through every single draft and see it......

It is completely different looking lost in your age 18 season making the jump directly from the NTDP as opposed to looking lost in your age 19 season after playing in the AHL at 18. They are not similar situations at all, and it just proves again just how little Byfield gained in his development from being in the AHL.

It was basically a lost season for him.