Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread 2022-23 Season

[johnjm22]

Wrong. In anything of true scope and competition, money and brains wins out in the end. Maybe not right away, but eventually yes. The line between repeat champ and dynasty is where the line is thin. Lombardi failed to build a dynasty is the only criticism that can be objectively levied.

Big success usually requires a big risk/gamble at some point. That's why the line between success and failure can be thin.

Your judgements appear to based on the flawed logic of outcome-oriented thinking as opposed to process-oriented.

Problem is, a GM can't control an outcome no matter how smart he is, or how much money is backing him, because there's too many variables beyond his control.

The fact that LA won with Dean Lombardi does not definitively prove he's a great GM. (I'm not a Dean hater, BTW, I thought he did a good job).

It's highly unlikely Blake will win a SC as GM.

And if Lombardi took over again right now, it's also highly unlikely the Kings would win another SC under his second term.

 

[Sol]

I think people need to get a bit of a grip with the Lombardi situation and realize that there’s good evidence both ways. Just a matter of preference which way you want to line up. There’s many good reasons to think he was overrated and made a lot of bad calls or you can be the other guy and just think about the cups being the only thing you care about. Both fine.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Sometimes there's a thin line between success and failure.

DL came very close to that line.

Had it not been for Sutter, DL probably gets fired and the Richards trade goes down as arguably the worst trade in franchise history.

And if my grandmother had wheels, she would be a bicycle.

I’ve known you for a long time, John. I know you’re a loyal Kings fan and care about the franchise. But this is embarrassing. What if Richards isn’t concussed in 2013 and the Kings beat the Hawks? What if Sekera isn’t injured in 2015 and the Kings make the playoffs? What if Taylor picks Perry instead of Brown?

Reality is reality. What ifs mean nothing.

We're in the midst of Schrödinger's rebuild. It is both a rebuild and not a rebuild at the same time.

According to a handful of posters here, literally, yes.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Flat out amazing how many people here think they know unequivocally what would happen, what should happen...what will happen....

According to LWL (so who knows how accurate) Kings are the 11th youngest team in the league, out of the 10 that are ahead of them, only TWO are playoff teams, the 10 right after LA, SIX are playoff teams....

Yet some people on here absolutely convinced that the Kings are trash, they won't do anything the next 1-2-3-4 years, that everyone ELSE is doing it right......because of their insane dislike/hatred of all things Blake, or all things Robitaille, or both......

I mean for f*** sake, you change the names of the President and GM to Jim Bob Furley, and Jim Crack Corn....and everyone loves this f***ing team...it's absolutely f***ing insane.....

And for those who wanna bitch...I get it....OMG NO G....AND OMG NO LD......AND OMG THEY ARE DEVELOPING CLARKE WRONG......and all the other bullshit you want to spew.......Amazing, because so many were convinced they were developing Vilardi wrong, Byfield wrong, Kaliyev wrong, and yet... there they are f***ing prospering......but yea....it's wrong....

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Since I’m under the assumption this was aimed at me, I’ll reply. I can see the argument for reading Doughty for futures and trying to rebuild. But by the time Blake took over Kopitar already had his contract that was given to him by DL. You know a lot of teams with the capspace to take on a 10mil 8 year player?

The Islanders literally just added an $8.5 million center mid-season. The Leafs added an $11 million center in free agency despite knowing they would need to open the bag for Matthews soon thereafter.

You make Anze Kopitar available, a team is going to make it work, especially in a world of cap hit retention. Please stop perpetuating this myth that teams don’t add huge AAV players.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Big success usually requires a big risk/gamble at some point. That's why the line between success and failure can be thin.

Your judgements appear to based on the flawed logic of outcome-oriented thinking as opposed to process-oriented.

Problem is, a GM can't control an outcome no matter how smart he is, or how much money is backing him, because there's too many variables beyond his control.

The fact that LA won with Dean Lombardi does not definitively prove he's a great GM. (I'm not a Dean hater, BTW, I thought he did a good job).

It's highly unlikely Blake will win a SC as GM.

And if Lombardi took over again right now, it's also highly unlikely the Kings would win another SC under his second term.

But that's why this "but what about Lombardi" discussion is a red herring. The outcome WAS there. the process WAS there. We knew exactly what he wanted to build at all times and while all his moves weren't flawless you could understand why he did what he did.

With Blake, the outcomes are NOT there. The process is NOT there as evidenced by the goaltending pipeline and LHD pipeline. Maybe we're in a lull and it will be there, sure, but it's not as of now. There are things beyond a GMs control...not addressing goaltending or LHD for years isn't one of them. We don't know what his vision is. We know he does things with youth that no other franchise does. We know he loves his sub-6-foot players. Maybe he doesn't shoot his mouth off like DL so sure we aren't always privy to his thoughts, but no one is vocalizing what this team is. Rebuilding? Not rebuilding? contender? He seems scared to say because when he last committed it was as a contender and he rightfully got reamed for it.

I don't see any variables beyond Blake's control here that excuse his actions so far.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

But that's why this "but what about Lombardi" discussion is a red herring. The outcome WAS there. the process WAS there. We knew exactly what he wanted to build at all times and while all his moves weren't flawless you could understand why he did what he did.

With Blake, the outcomes are NOT there. The process is NOT there as evidenced by the goaltending pipeline and LHD pipeline. Maybe we're in a lull and it will be there, sure, but it's not as of now. There are things beyond a GMs control...not addressing goaltending or LHD for years isn't one of them. We don't know what his vision is. We know he does things with youth that no other franchise does. We know he loves his sub-6-foot players. Maybe he doesn't shoot his mouth off like DL so sure we aren't always privy to his thoughts, but no one is vocalizing what this team is. Rebuilding? Not rebuilding? contender? He seems scared to say because when he last committed it was as a contender and he rightfully got reamed for it.

I don't see any variables beyond Blake's control here that excuse his actions so far.

The Kings blowing a 3–2 lead against Edmonton is something out of a GM’s control.

Jerking around your best defensive prospect since Doughty because you tripped over the coffee table overcommitting to Sean f***ing Walker is absolutely in a GM’s control.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The Kings blowing a 3–2 lead against Edmonton is something out of a GM’s control.

Jerking around your best defensive prospect since Doughty because you tripped over the coffee table overcommitting to Sean f***ing Walker is absolutely in a GM’s control.

So is making sure three of your top prospects aren't picking splinters out of their asses during NHL Game 7 and AHL elimination game.

He's getting a LOT of free passes for "what is he supposed to do (RIGHT NOW)" when the reason we're in the predicament that requires an expedient solution is a lack of foresight despite half a decade + of racetrack.

 

[King'sPawn]

So is making sure three of your top prospects aren't picking splinters out of their asses during NHL Game 7 and AHL elimination game.

He's getting a LOT of free passes for "what is he supposed to do (RIGHT NOW)" when the reason we're in the predicament that requires an expedient solution is a lack of foresight despite half a decade + of racetrack.

What, now you just want to GIVE prospects playoff experience in the AHL?

What else do you want to give these U-23 players who don't play like veterans yet?

 

[Sol]

I don’t think people realize that Blake was one Fiala being mediocre away from most likely being fired. Blake at no point has come across as having a plan. Fiala is legit keeping him in a job.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don’t think people realize that Blake was one Fiala being mediocre away from most likely being fired. Blake at no point has come across as having a plan. Fiala is legit keeping him in a job.

Not even Fiala, Copley. That's how thin a margin this whole regime is riding right now, pinning its hopes on a below avg. 30 year old journeyman. After 6 years in charge.

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

So is making sure three of your top prospects aren't picking splinters out of their asses during NHL Game 7 and AHL elimination game.

He's getting a LOT of free passes for "what is he supposed to do (RIGHT NOW)" when the reason we're in the predicament that requires an expedient solution is a lack of foresight despite half a decade + of racetrack.

The situation where those top prospects didn't play in either the NHL or AHL playoffs was absolute GM malpractice, that for some reason didn't get the attention it deserved. Inexcusable

 

[All The Kings Men]

The situation where those top prospects didn't play in either the NHL or AHL playoffs was absolute GM malpractice, that for some reason didn't get the attention it deserved. Inexcusable

My recollection is that it had far more to do with injuries, the trade deadline and bad timing (and I suppose questionable coaching decisions if you don't agree with what happened) rather than a decision to have those players on the bench.

And sure they lost games 6 and 7 so the coaching decisions are there to be criticized but I don't know that Blake deserves the amount of blast he gets for what seemed to me to be an unbelievable run of bad timing.

 

[Sol]

Not even Fiala, Copley. That's how thin a margin this whole regime is riding right now, pinning its hopes on a below avg. 30 year old journeyman. After 6 years in charge.

That’s true. I don’t see how anyone can look at Blake and think he has done a good job. The lack of structure and the sheer amount of stupidity suggests that through all the dumb shit he’s done or not done, he’s gotten extremely lucky in one player. Fiala and Copley right now are what stands between the Kings being a lottery team. When your entire 6 years comes down to Fiala and Copley then you’re in serious trouble.

Most importantly I’m not saying this to roast Todd. I do it a lot but I’m not saying this in jest. What kind of a general manager goes and hires the coach that got reverse swept? Doesn’t that say a lot about the coach and his mental fortitude.


Lolbardi at least had a logical plan that whether or not we agreed upon we knew it existed.

 

[Sol]

I legit have no idea why they’d even extend Edler. Maatta was far superior than him but we retained him? Zero speed, zero intimidation factor, no skill. Like why is this guy playing over Spence? Is the sensibility of this old coot that the Kings should show zero loyalty to more important than the ready future fixture in the Kings line up? Riddle me that.

 

[Statto]

Moving Durzi or Roy is subtracting too much while trying to add. Walker’s would clear waivers, so his trade value is nill. So, which RD is moving? Spence? Most fans would scream if Spence was moved for a rental journeyman.

I don’t think he moves anyone for a rental and we can disagree on Durzi

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Some of the decisions by Blake and TM are confounding...and if they determine any of them together - all the worse. Like signing AA to another 1 year deal at all and especially for 2.7 million? He was clealry not a fit and they were bringing in Danault and Arvidsson...and Moore was solidifying himself as a player. No need for AA,
Why sign him? What's intersting, I now think Todd may be steering Blake more than I previously thought, after hearing TM rave about AA's skill level. WTF? It rarely translated to this team or manifested.

Edler was good for 1 year. 1 year. It was thought he may never play again, with the ankle break...it was a valiant
effort and admirable for him to come back....so it's like 'he's great in the room, he's looked upon as father Swede, or whatever. GREAT. But his time was over. DO NOT SIGN. If they felt Toby needed more AHL time, then sign or trade for another LHD. Or, sign Maatta. He was playing better last year. I understand if they could not have to cap to sign him. But, if they did not believe in Toby or Moverare, get an NHL LHD.
But, because of Walker coming back and overloaded RHD, let's move a RHD to LHD. Great!

I also think they have too much respect and a soft heart for Walker, the puck to the face...reconstruction...then the knee...and Blake talking about how he had the same surgery and overcoming it...but unfortunately, this is a business and demands wins. Wins come by building the best team you possibly can and icing those 20 players....waivers, uber respect to the detriment of the team, towards any one player, and player waiver exempt games, willl ultimately lead to failure. You must make the tough decisions and actually do them.

The combination of Luc-Blake-McLellan as a team, leads to less than what could and should be.
Iafallo is now mired in his annual disappearance...or appearance of a shell of his best - which is putrid.
20 games last year; 25% of the year...what? 20 games and 1 goal, something like that...and now, 8 games, 1 assist and -9? How long will it last, another 10 games? Do you wonder why Danault's line has been so poor, the last 8 games? It's Iafallo, failing. Is he hurt? What made the Danault line work, was Phil, Moore and Arvy busting their assess each shift, outworking the oppossition and playing for each other. It was beautiful.
What's even crazier, during Iafallo's 9 game ghosting? Playing him every PP2. Hey, Arvidsson is the much better option for PP2, yet is on the bench.

Losing Moore and Vilardi has hurt so much. Iafallo seems like the logical Moore temp replacement. But by game 3 or 4 of failing, get him off of there. How many coaches would put their #1 offensive player on line 3?
NONE. Oops...there's actually one. Todd McLellan. So, the chemistry and results of Fiala, Kopitar, Kempe were
not the best...so why not put Fiala with Danault and Arvidsson? Why not remove Iafallo, when he starts his ghost act? The team talks and talks "we need these 2 points" and then does nothing to change things up, when they are not working. How about moving our top point scorer, from line 3 to line 2?? WHy have him playing with a no business skating a single shift above 4C, Lizotte?
Too much respect from TM also goes out to Lizotte....move him up to 3C? It's like Todd rewards players by how hard they bust it, by elevating them to roles they cannot handle or should be.
Sure, Lizotte works his azz off, but that does not make him the 3C with Fiala. It's a joke. JAD works hard too and has been admirable. There are holes, without Moore, Vilardi and Kaliyev...but lines 2 and 3 are not working.

This deadline is a mystery. I think Blake may make some kind of move, just to try to patch something and it may not be the best thing...or if it's a decent player with term, it will be an overpayment,
I think how the 3 of Luc, Blake and TM work together is a problem. DL was DL and was in total control of
player acquisitions. And where and what does / is Bergevin doing? (I'd rather he not be in this mystery equation at all) DL and Sutter were a cohesive team. I'm now thinking Blake is not in a position to 100% make
any deal he would like, but Luc has influence. Can you imagine if Luc was pres back in the 2008-2014 days and tried to have influence on DL? I'm not making an excuse for Blake, but think Luc and even TM have too much of a say.

 

[Statto]

Whilst I think some of the criticisms are very fair and I’ve made some of them myself I don’t think it’s as bad as some. The reason is that we are 2-3 moves away from having a very good side. If/when Blake’s brings in a decent LHD and goaltender this is suddenly a balance roster that could beat anybody. I don’t think the younger players are ready to go deep but they soon will be. To make a deep run they will need Clarke’s ‘x-factor‘ IMO as well as those holes filled.

So fill the two roster holes, then get Spence and Clarke onto the ice and suddenly we have a potential monster team on our hands for 23/4. There are still plenty of moving parts but I can see that Blake is building towards something because it doesn’t take a lot of imagination to see a decent base is there. I’m not convinced that TMac is the guy either but that’s a separate discussion.

IF Blake has a clear vision of what players he wants and thinks he might get them in the summer then waiting is fine. I’d much rather get players off his short list than just make do with a compromise out of desperation. Obviously I have zero idea as to how he’s approaching it, but I think the tipping point on his tenure is coming this summer. If he can resolve those roster gaps before the start of 23/4 we will (at least should) look far more favourably on his work to date. Even if I still won’t like how he’s handled Clarke and Spence in particular.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

My recollection is that it had far more to do with injuries, the trade deadline and bad timing (and I suppose questionable coaching decisions if you don't agree with what happened) rather than a decision to have those players on the bench.

And sure they lost games 6 and 7 so the coaching decisions are there to be criticized but I don't know that Blake deserves the amount of blast he gets for what seemed to me to be an unbelievable run of bad timing.

He seems to have a lot of this. Poor guy.

He's the "Sorry I turned my paper in late, but look outside, my car is on fire" of GMs when he had 6 years to turn in the assignment.

I don't even dislike/hate the guy, I'm just grumpy as hell about how many alibis he's getting. Everything is someone else's fault or up to the universe.

 

[bland]

My recollection is that it had far more to do with injuries, the trade deadline and bad timing (and I suppose questionable coaching decisions if you don't agree with what happened) rather than a decision to have those players on the bench.

And sure they lost games 6 and 7 so the coaching decisions are there to be criticized but I don't know that Blake deserves the amount of blast he gets for what seemed to me to be an unbelievable run of bad timing.

I still see it as a choice to be indecisively active, to kick it down the road and see how it shakes out as opposed to following a defined path. It seems more trustworthy to follow a decision maker who shows you their guns and makes decisions based on that plan. Lombardi did that - not everything panned out because it never does, but the logic in the moves was never off course. His moves made sense based on the logic presented.

The timing of so many of these Blake moves indicates crossed purposes. Patience is always the best course coming out of a rebuild, but allowing your vets to convince you to hit the fast-forward button doesn't show a lot of confidence in your own decision making. The team was loaded with kids best suited to break into the league in middle six roles, but instead of filling in the holes on defense and the goalie pipeline Blake added longterm deals into the positions he could most efficiently fill from within while continuing the developmental stage of the rebuild. Curious, if not condemning choices.

Last year a body, Stetcher, was needed. Expiring deal, cheap, nothing to complain about at all. He played well, as did all of the defensemen at that time. Just shows the difference you see when your forwards pay defensively accountable hockey. This year with the addition of Fiala and a healthy defensive group it was as though they thought they could play more open.

If the team finds themselves in a tight race to make the playoffs, it won't be because of what happens at the deadline - it will be because the team added the right player at the wrong time and the leadership wasn't strong enough to adapt without losing the plot.

 

[LAKings88]

I don't get the anguish over the last additions Blake has made.

Danualt is great signing. He is Mike Richards without the hitting/scrapping.

Fiala is a gamebreaker this team lacked for years. You can argue that money could have gone to defense but it is already paying dividends.

Arvidsson has been by and large very good.

Moore is a skilled find.

Quick and Petterson are what they are at this point? Petterson was the biggest gamble and it failed.

Many will say that they are taking spots away from prospects but really Kaliyev is the one I think needs more opportunity but he is never gonna be a burner and requires the right fit on a line. He will always thrive on the PP tho.

I'm not sold that Turcotte will ever be more than a 3C at most. Byfield is going to take time and who knows what he will be at this point?

Ultimately it comes down to Kopitar and Doughty like it or not. Do you waste their final years in a rebuild or trade them? Now, a rebuilding team with Byfield as your number one would have been a bottom feeder. I guess some wanted more #1 picks in a full rebuild which that would have yielded. LA could have gone nuclear and traded Kopi and Doughty but you're trading away legends and teams just don't tend to run all rookies. I do think the team looked dead in the water and needed to move on from the aging Toffoli, Carter, Muzzin, etc. Toffoli and Carter could have stayed but they seemed a bit stale at the end. Carter needed the trade for some kind of quickening I guess.

More than anything lately I'm questioning those hard earned top five picks and if they will be contributors. Best case scenario is the Kings are competitive while their young prospects learn how to play. Byfield is showing signs which is good.

 

[bland]

I don't understand why people think that trades are not part of the plan after accumulating a bunch of assets. Like every one of these prospects is going to make the team and become a top player on the Kings? No. You use the assets to acquire the right players for your team.

You don't understand it because nobody is saying that or offering evidence to support it.

Had they dealt the first and Faber for Wallstedt folks would debate the decision but not the logic behind it.

Trading for an offensive winger two years in a row when most of your NHL ready prospects are fit for those spots, then pigeon-holing those prospects into roles they aren't suited for is poor at worst, indecisive at best.

Especially when you consider the effect on the team - now you have offensive wingers on all 4 lines and next to no role players in those spots. That means more offense but fewer wins. Cutting off your nose to spite your face in its most obvious form.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I think people need to get a bit of a grip with the Lombardi situation and realize that there’s good evidence both ways. Just a matter of preference which way you want to line up. There’s many good reasons to think he was overrated and made a lot of bad calls or you can be the other guy and just think about the cups being the only thing you care about. Both fine.

It's not that DL is overrated, it's just the up and down process to get to where that era ended up is overlooked or forgotten due to the ultimate outcome. We don't care that Penner couldn't at all do what he was brought in to do. We just remember that series winning OT goal to send them to the Final. We never mention Moulson's name anymore, when he was a pivotal point of discussion for a long time. We don't even think about how they not only missed on a top 4 pick, but then lost that top 4 pick for nothing. Doesn't matter that they weren't a playoff team the day they got Carter. It was obvious they were a real contender, because real contenders are middle of the pack all the time.

We still talk about things that happened in 2015 today though, because they haven't won since in order to erase that from memory.

The Islanders literally just added an $8.5 million center mid-season. The Leafs added an $11 million center in free agency despite knowing they would need to open the bag for Matthews soon thereafter.

You make Anze Kopitar available, a team is going to make it work, especially in a world of cap hit retention. Please stop perpetuating this myth that teams don’t add huge AAV players.

The Islanders did not add an $8.5m C mid-season. They added a $4.125m C mid-season.

Would you be expecting anything for Kopitar?

Which year did Van trade a UFA to be Horvat? The year they sucked. Which year did the Kings suck when Kopitar was going to be a UFA? No year. If Van was in 1st place and top 5 overall, do they re-sign Horvat? Absolutely.

 

[King'sPawn]

The Islanders did not add an $8.5m C mid-season. They added a $4.125m C mid-season.

Would you be expecting anything for Kopitar?

Which year did Van trade a UFA to be Horvat? The year they sucked. Which year did the Kings suck when Kopitar was going to be a UFA? No year. If Van was in 1st place and top 5 overall, do they re-sign Horvat? Absolutely.

SR's point is that a team committed cap space to a quality player, which dispels the narrative that Blake was "stuck" with Kopitar.

If Kopitar was ever made available over the past few years, a team would have made room.

Now, I don't think Kopitar, Doughty, or Quick should have been traded, because I still believe they provide quality to a rebuilding team (assuming they buy into a rebuild, which Doughty was never really interested in). But the point is people are being revisionists by saying "Blake couldn't do a rebuild because of these AGING VETERANS that nobody wants."

 

[KingsFan7824]

SR's point is that a team committed cap space to a quality player, which dispels the narrative that Blake was "stuck" with Kopitar.

If Kopitar was ever made available over the past few years, a team would have made room.

Now, I don't think Kopitar, Doughty, or Quick should have been traded, because I still believe they provide quality to a rebuilding team (assuming they buy into a rebuild, which Doughty was never really interested in). But the point is people are being revisionists by saying "Blake couldn't do a rebuild because of these AGING VETERANS that nobody wants."

But the Islanders didn't add an $8.5m player mid-season. It's about important detail.

But we're going to get into a context thing again, which I'm sure caused an argument months ago. Nobody is ever completely stuck, but the number of road blocks becomes a problem.

Horvat, soon to be UFA. Tavares, UFA. How many players in a similar situation as Kopitar over the past few years have been traded? What was the return? Are they better off?