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LA KINGS 2023/4 Regular season discussion

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KopitarGOAT420 said:
Same for the whole "We should've traded Drew Doughty" argument.

Trading an $11 million defenseman with NMC's is insanely difficult to do - ESPECIALLY when that player isn't exactly living up to the contract.

Karlsson had just put up 100 points and was traded for a pretty underwhelming return.

For all we know, Blake has tried to trade Doughty multiple times and other teams weren't interested / Doughty wasn't willing to waive his NMC.

Again, it's easy to play armchair GM and be hyper-critical of moves that were/weren't made.

Maybe... maybe not. And when would this trade have hypothetically happened?? 2018? 2019? 2021??

Like it's all fine and dandy and sounds cool and all to throw out that idea but was it actually possible?!??!?!?!?!?! We have no idea really.

When Doughty signed his contract he was one of the best defensemen in the world. Trading him at the time would've been pretty insane. Trading him a year ago, two years ago, 3-4 years ago, etc... Was probably impossible.

So what are we talking about exactly????? A whole bunch of hypothetical "should've"/"could've"/"would've" with no actual knowledge of whether these hypothetical moves were even possible to begin with.
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When Kopitar signed the team wasnt far removed from a Stanley Cup. I was all for the signing. There was a really small minority on here against it (whos predictions for where the team was heading turned out correct) but it made it made sense to keep contending because they were still pretty good.
When Doughty signed it was clear the team wasnt going to be competitive and they could get a big haul for him. It was clear no matter how good he was the team was trending down.
 
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kings11 said:
What took so long? Isn’t that what everyone was harping about? I’m going all the way back to Mike Richards to the present. Management seems content to just make the playoffs and turn a profit.
Don’t think that’s the case, then how do you explain a “ championship “ caliber team without a #1 goalie, the #1 prospect pipeline turned to rubble, and so on?
This team is going to lose Roy, Arvy, Vlad, Toby, Lizotte, Grundy and possibly more kids.. this is probably the biggest gross mismanagement of a team this side of the 90’s Clippers… Hell, just look at the Angels so see what is happening here
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And just like the angels, NOTHING will ever change until people quit going and paying for tickets etc. which also wont happen in either teams case.
No cap room, farm system devoid of talent, finishing just well enough to ensure mediocrity in draft postion- the black hole.
A sad state of affairs to be sure. But whats really sad is the clowns that got us here will remain cashing aeg checks for the foreseeable future.
 
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Axl Rhoadz said:
In all seriousness...don't you think you might be being at bit dramatic....just an eentsy beentsy bit??

I think the goalie situation has been covered to death - -they thought they had (2) #1 goalies last year, look how that turned out!

Then we have the '#1 prospect pipeline turned to rubble' comment, good f***ing lord. How many years in a row would you like this team to be considered to have a top prospect pool before those said prospects graduate to the big club or they are moved as assets to acquire proven talent? If you are one of those teams with an amazing prospect pool, you are most likely NOT a playoff team -- awesome, you can have that all day long. Not me...thx.
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Are you focusing more on how the comments are written or on the facts I laid out? What do we actually have so far from sucking all those years? I see Mikey Anderson and ??? Byfield is looking good but it’s one game, Turc seems to finally be healthy, Laf is going to be an impact pick, we’re wasting Spence and Clarke’s ELC contracts, we move 2 first rounds and got rid of a top 4 Dman for a mediocre team.

I’m simply pointing out how this management team and coach didn’t do a quick retool, skipped over a complete rebuild and now fancy themselves contenders. That’s really my point Axl, we’re too good for the lottery but not good enough for the cup
 
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kings11 said:
Are you focusing more on how the comments are written or on the facts I laid out? What do we actually have so far from sucking all those years? I see Mikey Anderson and ??? Byfield is looking good but it’s one game, Turc seems to finally be healthy, Laf is going to be an impact pick, we’re wasting Spence and Clarke’s ELC contracts, we move 2 first rounds and got rid of a top 4 Dman for a mediocre team.

I’m simply pointing out how this management team and coach didn’t do a quick retool, skipped over a complete rebuild and now fancy themselves contenders. That’s really my point Axl, we’re too good for the lottery but not good enough for the cup
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Maybe we'll get a participation award
 
kings11 said:
Are you focusing more on how the comments are written or on the facts I laid out? What do we actually have so far from sucking all those years? I see Mikey Anderson and ??? Byfield is looking good but it’s one game, Turc seems to finally be healthy, Laf is going to be an impact pick, we’re wasting Spence and Clarke’s ELC contracts, we move 2 first rounds and got rid of a top 4 Dman for a mediocre team.

I’m simply pointing out how this management team and coach didn’t do a quick retool, skipped over a complete rebuild and now fancy themselves contenders. That’s really my point Axl, we’re too good for the lottery but not good enough for the cup
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Jury is still out on Turcotte and Byfield -- however, Byfield has cemented himself to the TOP LINE. Spence has earned a roster spot....Clarke progessing as expected, most likely will see his fair share of NHL games this season. Turcotte had impressive camp, has put on 15lbs and just might finally make an impact. WHAT'S THE PROBLEM?

Kempe, homegrown - 40 goal scorer. Mikey Andersen, homegrown - top pair dman. Kalieyev, looking to be tied to the 2nd line all season.

Vilardi (who all the experts on this board wrote off years ago as most likely to never play an NHL game) has graduated and was top asset to acquire PLD. Faber, top asset to acquire Fiala.

Dude, seriously....take a breath.
 
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kings11 said:
You could get away with trading Doughty but move Kopitar and you might as well sell off all the vets and rebuild again because this team would be an instant lottery team
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This is the purpose of a rebuild.
You collect some great draft picks and build the team around them.

This step wasn't only skipped, the youngsters required were traded away for more oldies.
We just delayed the obvious for 3 more years of embarrassment and will be forced into a real rebuild right after.

How this is favored by some people is way beyond me.
 
Sol said:
Kopitar and Doughty should have been canned years ago
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You have the gift of hindsight when making this statement.

Schmooley said:
When Kopitar signed the team wasnt far removed from a Stanley Cup. I was all for the signing. There was a really small minority on here against it (whos predictions for where the team was heading turned out correct) but it made it made sense to keep contending because they were still pretty good.
When Doughty signed it was clear the team wasnt going to be competitive and they could get a big haul for him. It was clear no matter how good he was the team was trending down.
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You might be right. But there's additional factors.

Doughty has had a NMC since the 2018/19 season. So if you're suggesting they had traded Doughty sometime between 2018 and today... You'd need Doughty himself to be willing to agree to be traded. By all accounts, that was never something he would've agreed to.

If you're suggesting they should've traded him prior to 2018 then sure, there's maybe a conversation to be had there. He was making $7 million and was a top 5 defenseman in the world at worst. Teams would've been interested, sure.

But was ownership??? That's another big factor. Trading Doughty around 2016/2017/2018 would have essentially meant ownership was signing off on starting a rebuild - By all accounts, that wasn't something they were interested in.

So even if you do want to claim it was obvious the Kings were headed downhill around the time Doughty signed his extension and the team should've traded him before resigning him... You're assuming at least one of the following:
- Doughty was willing to be traded
- Management/Ownership was willing to sign off on a rebuild sometime around 2017

We know both weren't true.

Obviously now we can sit around online and say the team/organization would've been better off going that route... But at the time it would've been a huge risk and likely wasn't possible given ownership almost definitely wouldn't have signed off on it.

So again, we're playing the would've/should've/could've game with A) the benefit of hindsight and B) the idea that these things were possible to begin with (they likely weren't for various reasons)
 
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Axl Rhoadz said:
Ahhh, classic Kurrilino, never change.

Now we consider players in their PRIME to be 'oldies'.
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This is more in the context of when the youngsters will be ready.
Byfield and friends still need another 3-4 years to be effective.

Kopitar will be 40
Dougthy will be 37
Danault will be 34
Moore will be 32
Fiala will be 31

If that is not the definition of oldies, i don't know what is.
Those guys are also here to stay and won't just disappear
 
Sol said:
Kopitar and Doughty should have been canned years ago
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They didn't even need to trade him. They just needed to ignore him in 2021 when he called Blake out and demanded more vets. Management should've told him that if he wanted to be on a playoff team then have a Karlsson-esque comeback season to make a trade feasible instead of going full Poughty mode and obliterating any market value he had.
 


JAD over Turc? Id like to see what AT can do and keep him out of the A.. Edit: hmm they called him up yesterday. So RV LTIR must've allowed this.
 
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Kurrilino said:
Byfield and friends still need another 3-4 years to be effective.
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This is a wild statement / assumption.

Byfield playing on the top line and poised to break out. Kaliyev slated to play in the top 9 and could certainly break out as well. Laferriere seems to be snagging himself a spot on a line with Fiala and Dubois which could lead to him being an impact rookie for us. Spence should be an NHL regular and is set to run the 2nd powerplay unit.

Yet you're claiming our young players "still need another 3-4 years to be effective"????? That's so arbitrary / nonsensical.

Those 4 guys could/should be pretty key players for us THIS year. Even if they do need more time... 3-4 years?????? Nah.

Edit: Laferriere and Byfield were also 2 of our best players on opening night.
 
The ideas of trading vets like Moore, Arvi, Lizzie, Roy, etc. and making room for other cheap youngsters; while creating cap space / trade assets to get a goalie/PF.....that's fun & cute and all. But it's a pipe dream. It's simply not happening. Blake is more likely to extend these guys than trade them. It is what it is. Reality.
 
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Schrute farms said:
The ideas of trading vets like Moore, Arvi, Lizzie, Roy, etc. and making room for other cheap youngsters; while creating cap space / trade assets to get a goalie/PF.....that's fun & cute and all. But it's a pipe dream. It's simply not happening. Blake is more likely to extend these guys than trade them. It is what it is. Reality.
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I do think Blake will have to decided between Roy and Spence. If he gives Roy a new 5-6mil contract, then that probably implies not extending RV and possibly moving him before deadline to get a goalie. I think his strategy is like last year - pray for a miracle in goal until the deadline and try to get a goalie for the playoffs. A risky move because good chance our collection of has beens and never haves will not pull a Copley this season.
 
The RV move obviously is helpful right now, helps them out of a tough spot. Does it bail Blake out of a tight spot that poor management put them in? Absolutely. Has Vegas been doing this shit forever and won a cup by pushing the cap? Absolutely.
 
AbsentMojo said:
I do think Blake will have to decided between Roy and Spence. If he gives Roy a new 5-6mil contract, then that probably implies not extending RV and possibly moving him before deadline to get a goalie. I think his strategy is like last year - pray for a miracle in goal until the deadline and try to get a goalie for the playoffs. A risky move because good chance our collection of has beens and never haves will not pull a Copley this season.
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Agreed, and I think that has to be Spence, you trade Roy the year he enters UFA, at the TDL for whatever you can etc, if he doesn't do that, mind something mind numbing, then everyone who has been going WTF, will have a major coup in your collection....
 
GoldenBearHockey said:
Agreed, and I think that has to be Spence, you trade Roy the year he enters UFA, at the TDL for whatever you can etc, if he doesn't do that, mind something mind numbing, then everyone who has been going WTF, will have a major coup in your collection....
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I didnt parse/understand that (aside from Agreed has to be Spence)
 
AbsentMojo said:
I didnt parse/understand that (aside from Agreed has to be Spence)
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Welcome to my world, in essence, for me if he extends Roy, he's making a major mistake, ride him until the TDL he becomes a UFA trade him as a rental....anything other than that, all the Blake haters (AKA wanna be GMs) will have a big old coup in their hat when it comes to Blake one that's actually real, and not made up in the minds of the feeble
 
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