LA KINGS 2023/4 Regular season discussion

[Schrute farms]

I'm not disqualifying people praising Faber.. I'm down to praise the hell out of Faber. I'm disqualifying people who are claiming they knew (or thought it was likely) that Faber would turn out to be this good 2 years after the Kings traded him.

Herby literally asked "Why wasn't it expected he would be this good, this soon?" and myself and GoldenBearHockey answered him by talking about how rare it is for a 2nd round pick to be this good this fast in general.

Y'all are acting like you knew the Kings were giving up a top pair d man when they traded Faber - and are essentially using that as part of your argument that the Kings should've done things differently. When in reality at the time Faber was traded sure, he looked great, but he wasn't exactly screaming 'top pair defenseman in 2 years'. He had upside for sure and I was bummed when I heard he was included in the deal but my point is, when the trade happened it looked like the Kings were giving up a potential top 4 RHD - Something they could afford to do at the time without losing sleep over. The Kings didn't need a 'capable' RHD - Which as you said was the least a lot of Kings fans (myself included by the way) said Faber would be very quickly - They needed a highly skilled offensive winger who could drive offense and put up a lot of points so they used Faber to go out and get that player. Now 2 years later it turns out Faber may be even better than we realized and seems to be a top pairing / potentially star defenseman. That sucks and there was always technically the potential that could happen with a good prospect like Faber but it wasn't super likely (again, at the time the trade happened).

I love Faber's game, and I knew when we traded him he would likely become a pretty damn good NHLer. But I'm not going to sit around and act like I'm not a little bit surprised he's turned out to be this good this fast. Because it is a little bit surprising he's THIS good this fast. But I guess some of you guys saw it all along?? This is going to sound sarcastic but legitimately good for y'all cuz if that's the case you evaluated the player better than most professional scouts.

You must not have spent much time around here 1-2+ years ago because there were several members who were in love with Faber and saying what a steal he was and he would be an immediate / LT fixture in the NHL -- Herby especially but also Bland, KP, RJ, etc. That went up a level during the 8-15 months after he was drafted and was proving what a stud he was against top level competition.
You are wrong on this topic. Take the L and move on.

 

[tkb81]

Apparently people forget that Patrice Bergeron came in and played in the NHL right away at the age of 18, despite being a second-round pick.

Draft position means nothing once you're drafted. It can play a part in projections, sure, but it's not unheard of for second rounders to have fast impacts.

those are more of exceptions than the rule ... bergeron is likely heading to the hall ..

 

[Fishhead]

It doesn't often happen with organizations that slow boil prospects, start their second overall pick on the bottom six for multiple years, and have their top-10 pick play in the AHL because they just don't have room.

JJ Moser from Arizona was a 2nd round pick in 2021. He's already played 140 NHL games. J-J Peterka is a 2nd round pick from 2020 with 95 NHL games. Luke Evangelista is also a second-round pick from 2020 with 39 games. Mattias Maccelli was drafted out of the USHL and was in the NHL in his D+3. He's a fourth-round pick.

Are they all top-line players? No, but they're capable NHLers, which is the least a lot of us said Faber would be very quickly.

Nobody should be saying they "expect" a 19-20 year-old to be a top-line player, because expectations should just be tempered in general. Disqualifying people praising Faber because none of us "expected" him to be a top-pairing defenseman as a 21 year-old is pretty disingenuous.

I don't know if Arizona is a good example of anything, Moser was in there because they had nothing else. Shitty teams always have later draftees in their lineups (Simmonds, Clifford).

And the more you look, it becomes apparent that the Kings aren't really a slow boil organization at all, there are quite a few guys who spent less than a full season in the AHL.

The biggest problem to me is who they slow boil, and at least from my perspective, it's sometimes used as a crutch for poor drafting. There is nothing wrong with missing on draft picks, it happens to everyone. Just be up front about it and learn from it. One of the things about the development team that bugs me is hearing things like "every guy needs to spend time in the minors" or the infamous "only McDavid types" etc. Bjornfot came in really fast. So did Anderson. Kaliyev only has 40 AHL games. Heck, Byfield doesn't even have a full AHL season and he got injured.

I don't think a guy like Kupari was slow-boiled, he just wasn't that good. Turcotte had injuries due to where he was put, but he was obviously overdrafted as well. I don't expect them to come out and say a guy was overdrafted because it puts pressure on the player and can kill confidence. But rather than song and dance just say "we are always evaluating our picks in an effort to see where we made less than great decisions" and get better.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I don't know if Arizona is a good example of anything, Moser was in there because they had nothing else. Shitty teams always have later draftees in their lineups (Simmonds, Clifford).

And the more you look, it becomes apparent that the Kings aren't really a slow boil organization at all, there are quite a few guys who spent less than a full season in the AHL.

The biggest problem to me is who they slow boil, and at least from my perspective, it's sometimes used as a crutch for poor drafting. There is nothing wrong with missing on draft picks, it happens to everyone. Just be up front about it and learn from it. One of the things about the development team that bugs me is hearing things like "every guy needs to spend time in the minors" or the infamous "only McDavid types" etc. Bjornfot came in really fast. So did Anderson. Kaliyev only has 40 AHL games. Heck, Byfield doesn't even have a full AHL season and he got injured.

I don't think a guy like Kupari was slow-boiled, he just wasn't that good. Turcotte had injuries due to where he was put, but he was obviously overdrafted as well. I don't expect them to come out and say a guy was overdrafted because it puts pressure on the player and can kill confidence. But rather than song and dance just say "we are always evaluating our picks in an effort to see where we made less than great decisions" and get better.

Just curious has there been any team in the history of sports, let alone the NHL, that has said that like that?

 

[BringTheReign]

Canadiens: Pierre-Luc Dubois A Potential Dodged Bullet

Pierre-Luc Dubois has been linked to the Canadiens for quite some time, but he ended up in Los Angeles, where he's already drawing the Ire of the LA Media.

awinninghabit.com

Canadiens fans and writers are insufferable on this topic. This is the only sentence in the story that should be there:

Of course, it’s only been 14 games in LA, so it’s far too early to label Dubois just yet, but he’s been in the NHL for seven years now.

 

[funky]

Canadiens fans and writers are insufferable on this topic. This is the only sentence in the story that should be there:

When a lot of their own born and breed players don't want to play there or they at least they can't seem to acquire them, you have to wonder if the media and fans are part of the reason?

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

You must not have spent much time around here 1-2+ years ago because there were several members who were in love with Faber and saying what a steal he was and he would be an immediate / LT fixture in the NHL -- Herby especially but also Bland, KP, RJ, etc. That went up a level during the 8-15 months after he was drafted and was proving what a stud he was against top level competition.
You are wrong on this topic. Take the L and move on.

I mean I also was in love with Faber's game and thought he was going to be a really good NHL player. I just didn't think he was going to be a star top pairing D man at 21 years old lol. Clearly I was wrong about that - My whole argument was that when the Kings traded him it wasn't likely he would become as good as he is now (and as fast as he's become that good), but it seems others saw the signs that he could be a star sooner than I did.

I already admitted I was wrong and took the L and moved on though so kinda weird of you to say that but hey all good bro

 

[kingsholygrail]

So day to day which can become week to week if they find something of note.

 

[fivehole32]

So day to day which can become week to week if they find something of note.

Was going to say, considering Todd's response Arvidson. PLD could have had a career ending injury. Will PLD be back by Christmas?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

LOL Jesus Christ, it happened last night, literally, you guys want news before it happens, maybe write it yourself?

But yea, let's get pissed because you aren't getting up to the minute health reports on a hockey player who got injured less than 24 hours ago...the outrage is real folks....

 

[YP44]

I hope he is ok, if he misses time I wonder what will happen to the lines.

 

[YAYSAY]

LOL Jesus Christ, it happened last night, literally, you guys want news before it happens, maybe write it yourself?

But yea, let's get pissed because you aren't getting up to the minute health reports on a hockey player who got injured less than 24 hours ago...the outrage is real folks....

I think they're just...making....jokes

 

[kingsholygrail]

LOL Jesus Christ, it happened last night, literally, you guys want news before it happens, maybe write it yourself?

But yea, let's get pissed because you aren't getting up to the minute health reports on a hockey player who got injured less than 24 hours ago...the outrage is real folks....

I only see one mad person here.

 

[Eagle Fang]

I think they're just...making....jokes

 

[Johnny Utah]

The third line is not good.

JAD/Laffy-PLD-Kayilev

Just not working out.

I was hoping for PLD-Turcotte-Kayilev.

Kings will have more options when Arvidsson returns but then it will likely be Fiala-PLD-Kayilev and that wasn't working either.

Maybe Kings move PLD to play with Kopitar/Kempe and put Byfield at 3C with Fiala and Kayilev?

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Canadiens fans and writers are insufferable on this topic. This is the only sentence in the story that should be there:

True. The rest of the article is speculation. This guy knows nothing. No way to know if HuGo were even interested. If they were they weren't going to give up multiple NHLers from the few they had. They were likely only interested in him as a FA or in a trade for futures or prospects.

 

[Johnny Utah]

LA Kings Sign Forward Koehn Ziemmer to a Three-Year Entry-Level Contract | Los Angeles Kings

The LA Kings have signed forward Koehn Ziemmer to a three-year, entry-level contract worth an average annual value (AAV) of $875,000. The second Kings player chosen in the 2023 NHL Draft (third round, 78th overall), Ziemmer has skated in 16 games with the Prince George Cougars of the Western Hockey

www.nhl.com

 

[KINGS17]

Best jerseys in NHL history, in my opinion.

I dunno, not as good as the black and white Hull Olympiques jerseys.

If anyone is wondering why the Kings are stuck with the BS uniforms they have been wearing for way too long, look no further than...

 

[King'sPawn]

LA Kings Sign Forward Koehn Ziemmer to a Three-Year Entry-Level Contract | Los Angeles Kings

The LA Kings have signed forward Koehn Ziemmer to a three-year, entry-level contract worth an average annual value (AAV) of $875,000. The second Kings player chosen in the 2023 NHL Draft (third round, 78th overall), Ziemmer has skated in 16 games with the Prince George Cougars of the Western Hockey

www.nhl.com

Very cool. Ultimately won't mean a whole lot this season - it gives them flexibility to assign him to the AHL (or NHL, but not expecting it) when his junior season ends.

Still one of my favorite Kings prospects. His combination of skill and grit is pretty awesome.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Ziemmer is basically a cross between Toffoli and Clifford.

 

[kilowatt]

PLD - Kopitar - Kempe
Byfield - Turcotte - Kaliyev
Moore - Danault - Fiala
Grundstrom - Lizotte - Lewis

Make it happen, Todd.

 

[Fishhead]

Just curious has there been any team in the history of sports, let alone the NHL, that has said that like that?

It happens more than you would think. Every time I hear Howson chat with someone he talks about how he screwed up with drafting Filatov. Neely has openly admitted how much the Bruins screwed up the 2015 draft. Football GM's are probably the most forthcoming and admitting of draft screwups.

Pretty sure Nashville admitted how much they screwed up when they tried to sneak Tolvanen through waivers last year, too.

I respect owning up to your mistakes a lot more than putting spin on it.

 

[Statto]

PLD - Kopitar - Kempe
Byfield - Turcotte - Kaliyev
Moore - Danault - Fiala
Grundstrom - Lizotte - Lewis

Make it happen, Todd.

If PLD is out they need to give Turcotte a look, even if just to give him the message that he’s on track. He’s playing C so has to be next man up through the middle. The obvious alternative is give QB some time there. Whilst it’s a case of not fixing something that isn’t an issue, given his confidence is so high maybe now is a good time to give it a shot if only to see where things are at. If it works PLD can slide to wing as he’s very comfortable there.

Personally though I’d start with giving Turcotte a cup of coffee as they can swap QB and PLD at any time.

 

[kilowatt]

If PLD is out they need to give Turcotte a look, even if just to give him the message that he’s on track. He’s playing C so has to be next man up through the middle. The obvious alternative is give QB some time there. Whilst it’s a case of not fixing something that isn’t an issue, given his confidence is so high maybe now is a good time to give it a shot if only to see where things are at. If it works PLD can slide to wing as he’s very comfortable there.

Personally though I’d start with giving Turcotte a cup of coffee as they can swap QB and PLD at any time.

I agree with all of that. If PLD is out, play Fiala on line one with Kopitar and Kempe. Play either Turcotte or Byfield at center. I always assumed Turcotte would slide to wing and Byfield would play center, but the organization has done the exact opposite. I don't really care, I would just love to see Turcotte and Kaliyev get another chance together. They were electric in the WJC with Zegras. See if we can make some magic there.

Fiala - Kopitar - Kempe
Turcotte - Byfield - Kaliyev
Moore - Danault - Laferriere